EVE Fiction

Much as I hesitate to add yet another Templar One thread to the mix, this is a theme that does concern me somewhat -- and, don't worry, has nothing to do with the book's sweeping errors in EVE continuity. :P

One of my biggest gripes with EVE's PF from the start is the sheer volume of storyline-centric material that is revealed through vectors such as chronicles and novels: material that there is absolutely no way for our characters to know, essentially. In moderation, this is not any great issue; after all, it adds some depth to the universe, even if there is no place for it in actual roleplay. When a lot of such material has something related that our capsuleer characters would know, and it has been said that work will be done to narrow the gap between IC and OOC knowledge, it's no serious bother.

However, I can't help but feel that negative progress has been made here with the release of Templar One. A fairly sizeable chunk was revealed about the Sleepers, Jovians, DUST soldiers, and so on and so forth... almost none of which is available in any form to our characters. It seems to undermine any in-character speculation to be had on these topics when someone can come along quite readily, point at the book, and say "This is a pointless exercise: we as players already know what happened", in short -- particularly relevant to efforts such as Arek'jaalan. I was under the impression that such revelations were to come as a result of in-character work and progress on that front, but the content of Templar One

For the sake of keeping this post fairly concise, I think the long and short of this post would be "Has the aim of bringing IC knowledge more in line with what we, the players, know OOC been abandoned or put to one side, or is it just a matter of getting to the job after so much has been revealed with Templar One, alongside other tasks that need doing?".

You missed the point, or I didn't make it clearly enough.

Intermittently in the past, CCP have stated themselves to be working towards narrowing this discrepancy between IC and OOC knowledge, whereas the material in Templar One, for the most part, widens it tremendously. I am wondering if this is just an unfortunate consequence of time being spread thin across the content teams, or something else.

Is that clearer? I wasn't saying that the intricacies of some things were meant to be IC knowledge -- although some of it being anything but is awkward in itself (the Amamake conflict being notable for that -- to disguise an in-space battle of such scale in so notorious a system is a ridiculous idea). Honestly, I'd be more inclined to have the only information out there available IC and have none of the chronicles such as Anoikis / The Vitrauze Project and what what said in Templar One, but that might just be a personal preference of mine.

It's a pain in the ass because in a large way, it undermined a good few characters I know of, mine and Eva's among them.

It really is a bit of a problem.

I have seen this sentiment expressed quite often, and, yet, I don't understand it, either..

I have been more invested in RL than EVE, of late, so I find myself out of sorts around here.. Templar One destroyed RP in EVE? How is this possible? Where you are now, has little inluence on where your ancestors were.

In "real life" there are people who believe the moon landing was staged. We may never know the "truth". Some people believe a "higher power" is the impetus for the entire universe, it has yet to be definitively proven. Muck Raker has been hailed as a five star journalist, because, inquiring minds want to know.

Plenty of rumour mills to choose from, don't expect to get your news from the Empires' media, or you'll be bombarded by praise for has been, drug addicted entertainers with little bearing on current events, short of their typical, explosive self destruction..

In all deference to you, Jowen, I do respect you and quite a few other role players for their perseverence and contributions. Though my attitude often belies this fact. I am a disagreeable person.. =)

But, I personally thought that is what Arek Jaalan was for? Taking chrons and transferring the info into IC news feeds, etc.. Why else the media dissemination within AJ? With all the good, prolific writers, such should be well under way..

:shrugs:


i am not in the know as far as AJ, though.. Perhaps someone could give me an overview of the last couple months..? Did it implode?

Seems to me the chrons are cannon, so, find creative ways to open them into the game.. Expose's by media, leaked documents, etc.. YOU know, so in effect, SOMEONE knows, share that knowledge in a creative believable way..

I don't think the complaint is that it destroyed RP. What it destroyed, potentially, is a person's given character.

Case in point, remember the backlash for Amarrian RPers when TEA arrived on the scene. Suddenly, anyone who was loyal to the Empire because of religious fervor wasn't a person of honorable service. Now, they're idiots for following the command of upper echelons that don't even believe in God.

With Templar One, consider the fate of someone who was loyal to Ishukone in-character, and now is faced with Ishukone's betrayal of the State and the banning of Ishukone citizens from the STI.

If something in the books changes a fact you've used as a foundation for your character, it screws up your profile and you have to retcon, rewrite, or otherwise adapt.

I'm not sure I see how the novels are a problem. I confess I've never read them and am unlikely to do so. However, since they're books in RL and fiction needs to be written from at least one character's perspective, OOC knowledge is unavoidable. The information given (like the existence of this Broker person) isn't actionable in any meaningful gameplay way.

In cases where game information leads to issues with character backstory, it seems, well, like life. Stuff happens and we react to it. We spend time working with or for someone we admire highly only to learn they're a charlatan and then deal with the fallout. We feel betrayed. We feel like fools for having believed them. The causes we worked on with them are undermined or their credibility damaged. That's life. If you're looking for RP opportunities, I can't think of better ones than those thrust upon us by an indifferent universe.

I don't want to seem as though I'm engaging in a debate where someone is right or wrong, but this seems as good as time as any to express my personal views on a point by point basis:


If you can't stay in character, it sounds like RP is not what you're really interested in. You want to be on the winning team, regardless of RP constraints. If you can't help yourself, that's the real you. The RP character isn't the one who can't resist. Perhaps it would be best to simply not read the novels.


An interesting and certainly valid point. The question here is, does the rest of the EVE population have to wait until you're done with your exploring? What if you aren't even close? What if everyone who was interested in figuring out these myseteries has, except you? Can they move on to the next item on the list? Perhaps it would be best to simply not read the novels.



This brings us back to RP constraints. If you've built a story for yourself that is propped on some major element of the EVE backstory and then that thing is destroyed in a war (or whatever) in the novels, why wouldn't you roll with that? How does that destroy your hard work? It's just the next chapter in your character's life. Life goes on. If you're involved with RP or anything in EVE really, life should happen TO you; no one else in EVE gets to decide what happens to them, it just happens. Then you pick up the pieces.


This brings us back to RP constraints AGAIN. It sounds a lot like there are RP people out there who aren't really interested in RP. They're interested in writing their own story into EVE and the chief editor keeps revising the manuscript before they can finish their story. There's nothing wrong with that, but you'd be better served writing your story in such a way that it isn't utterly dependent on the main eve backstory.

Back when I played D&D (eons ago), we had a running joke about every character being related in some way to the noble families of our particular campaign. People just couldn't help themselves but write up a backstory for their character that made them a son or cousin or related minor noble. No one was ever the son of the cobbler or the daughter of a chambermaid. Occasionally the DM would smack us around for this by having things happen only to those related to royal families and nobility. E.G. the King has decided to purge titles and seize assets of all nobility and hand them back out on whatever terms he chooses to negotiate. It didn't take long for people to build better back stories. Its a problem that often crops up in long running t.v. shows and comic book series. Somehow everyone is related or gets married or whatever.

If you tie your story to highest 'levels' of the EVE storyline, you'd better be ready and willing to accept change, because that's the level at which the books will be written. If you want to get away from that, build a back story built at a lower 'level.' Rather than be the first born son of the ruler of Khanid, be the first born son of some virtually unknown land/slave holder who does things their own way. You can parallel the main storyline by adopting the attitudes and aspirations of the central figures of the eve back story and when those people's attitudes or situations change, decide if you're going along or not. If not, no harm, no foul. Now you're the with the family who's different. Do the people in the central storyline care? Who knows? You decide. It won't hurt the central storyline since there is zero chance of the books writing your storyline into the novel.

I guess what I understand least about this general topic is: what is it you want CCP to do? Stop writing novels? Consult you first? In most cases it sounds like all that needs to be done is not read the novels. In the others, stop anchoring your storyline to things at the highest level of the core backstory. In all cases it sounds like maybe the issues and concerns are based on an inability or unwillingness to truly RP.

Long post ganked.

In Burning Life it is clear the events of the Black Mountain Chronicle are the subject of gossip amongst both the the SOE and the Angels. Also Hona's secret society is not really that secret. The reluctance/fear to discuss capsuleer affairs suggest that We are closer to the principle of the intelligence community than it's base. I think we should be less reticent to know some of this stuff IC.

I suggest that thread is a good example of the obsession to stamp on twinking, actually strangling the story line. This seems prevalent amongst some of the back-stagers, who seem to think they hold some special status. When that thread proves they don't really know as much about the real story line as they think.

The Broker IS prime fiction, he's is talked about in hushed tones in intelligence circles in the same way as the clear allegorical "Keyser Soze" is talked about in hushed tones by criminals and coppers. To deny his existence is to deny a very useful plot device. The Broker can be considered IC to be an 'Urban Legend' or Boogie man but his existence, or that others believe in his existence cannot be denied. I am an atheist, I don't believe in God, but I cannot deny that other believe in God. The same is true of the Broker. It doesn't matter if he actually exists or not what matters is that people believe he does. (There is also the twist that the person telling the story, which may or may be true, could potential be Soze).

As an aside, has anybody else ever noticed that 'Kobayashi' places the Usual Suspects in a no win situation, and the Kobayashi Maru places Star Fleet Captains in a no-win situation. The Broker does the same. The Ship that carries the Maltese Falcon bears the same name. I've long felt that final piece is a clue in the Eve mystery but I'm still trying to figure it out, and wondering if Maru(Eve) is part of it, and connected with Maru(Japanese Celestial Being) or perhaps Maru(Maori Mythology).

When it comes to things like the events on Aivonen, these can largely be confirmed by visiting the planet IG or via RP.

A way to get these into IC knowledge is for characters with a plausible claim to know to 'leak' these IC in IGS and not to stamp on attempts to do so as twinking.