Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The CSM and CCP agree, local needs to go. This is not a thread to debate whether it should go or not, this is an idea's thread on what tools you would like to see implimented to replace local as an intel tool.

In the thread below Nikk Narrel has some good idea's and I just want to recognize his efforts to come up with a system that is balanced.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78424&find=unread



This was also mentioned, and I believe that you cannot modify local without implimenting some sort of cat and mouse cloaky hunter. Idea's on this would also be good and I would like to get the perspective of the AFK cloaking community on what would be fun if there had to be an anticloaking ship. There are many threads out there that already cover this topic, if you would like to reiterate please link the thread.

Flame on

Edit: Updated Nikk's link, still a good idea imo.

No cloak works good as it is now.
Even if i cant kill that Crane on gate it doesnt mean its not possible or should be easier.
Cloaky ships even T3 have so many disadvantages already that shouldn't be nerfed more:
Low DPS, recalibration times, lower optimal.

Cloaky afkers?
It's your paranoya and carebearism a problem not cloaky afkers.

No refreshing local in low and null is great idea.

Without Local chat intel we still have the following tools for Intel, DScan, Probes, Overview and visual. For less immediate intel we also have map statistics and websites like Dotlan Evemaps.

DScan

DScan is primarily the tool to replace local Intel for the average pilot.

Having to click this every 2 seconds is not good gameplay. To answer that DScan should be able to be set on a pulse mode that automatically updates with the frequency of those pulses based on the range of the scan, shorter the set range the more frequent the pulses, longer the less frequent. You could add scan angle into this calculation as well, 360 giving less frequent pulses than 180 for instance.

DScan doesn't detect cloaked ships at present and in it's normal mode it should continue that way. However, an alternative mode could be introduced that can see cloaked ships, albeit at some cost. Lets call it overloaded DScans. Any ship can do it, but the increased signal strength makes it impossible to be done cloaked. In this mode cloaked ships will show up on DScan but at the penalty of either decreased range / pulse frequency and/or increased ship signature. Basically I'm envisioning sliding bars of each that a player can set, and to get decent range and pulse frequency will radically increase the ships signature (think MWD) making the ship more easily scanable among other setbacks.

Lastly Dscan could be made a little less clunky, that goes for the whole UI in EVE which still seems awkward and messy.

Probes

Probes are pretty good as is, although not every ship will have them. Deep Space Probes will give you a complete list of every structure and non cloaked ship in the system. I don't think cloaked ships should be added to this, but perhaps flags indicating allied player ships, so the presence of possible non-cloaked hostiles can be more easily determined using these probes.

Other:

Sov structures giving the near equivalent of Local Chat Intel we have now is an idea that's floated about for some time, and I think with strong limitations could be good. One is that such structures are only worthwhile putting up in an alliances most populated and used systems, not every star system they hold sovereignty over. In order for to work they should be very expensive and vulnerable, so that constant active pilot nearby presence is required to protect them from roaming gangs.

Similar pseudo Local Chat intel could be provided to residents of NPC Nullsec with great standing with controlling NPCs (station systems only). Also for FW players in Lowsec if Local Chat is removed there, but based on control over fought over objectives. Low Sec Pirates having a means to deny both sides the objective and thus the improved intel.

For all these I think rather than getting Local Chat Intel back, an equivalent to a Deepspace probe set for player ships that also picks up cloaked ships would be better. Sov holding version would additionally show which ships are allied/blue, NPC Standings based ones would also show which ships also have good NPC standings, and Low Sec FW version would identify ships that are allied militia. Seeing character info would then be limited to line of sight, in the same station, or actively engaging in a chat channel.

Cloak Hunting ship.

My main concerns with this is not the ability to find and uncover a cloaked ship but the context in which that occurs. Principally however it works should not function on Gates, zone camping with a zerg is simply bad game play. Hunting cloaked ships ideally should be a game of cat and mouse, where who's the cat and who's the mouse isn't always clear. I suspect some anti cloak big alliance sov holders will be hoping for it to be more like a Fox Hunt with a zerg of hounds (the cloaky hunters) followed by a zerg of mounted hunters (the blob) with Fox's fate determined from the start, this would likely be game breaking for anyone who flies CovOps ships. Don't have a working suggestion yet.

Cloaking is only an issue for paranoid carebears who cack themselves whenever afk cloakers sit in local doing them no harm. They need to grow a pair.

Credit to the OP for not stating that local is broken without explanation, have a Blatant Forum Alt like for your troubles.

heh

Personally I think the intel-gathering system in EVE could be improved upon by making it a point to reward active intel gathering and risk-taking on the part of both cloaker and ratter. Ratters are given information on the presence of hostiles too easily (removing a large element of surprise from the cloakers), but also have no effective way of forcing cloakers in turn into a reactive mode of play.

1) Local should include all people with blue standings upon entry so players can know right away how many friendly allies are within system. Local for neutrals/hostiles would be delayed.

2) A small yellow button is added to the HUD that lights up for a second or two whenever there is gatefire in a system, giving the active, alert occupant a chance to start scanning nearby for hostiles using d-scan/probes. Of course, the pilot name, standings, shiptype or even if the pilot was coming or going from the system would not be available, stuff that is revealed by local now. The ambiguous, intermittent nature of the 'flash button' gives the ratter less information to work with and more likely to make errors for the attacker to capitalize on.

3) Make it so external intel tools require the cloak to be turned off. It's always struck me absurd that drones can't be controlled by your ship while cloaked, but probes can. If you want to go for the kill and think the enemy is in an anom or a plex in the system, in order to get the kill you have to make yourself vulnerable in turn to use the probes/on-board/d-scan, and get scanned down in turn if the residents are actively searching for intel and defending their system. While leaving the cloak's intel-gathering purpose (watching gates and stations for enemy activity) untouched.

4) Increase the rewards of nullsec PvE. Even without the removal of local and the impeding increase in cost of operation from the corresponding increase in kills, even with local as is, it's difficult to justify to prospective 0.0 newcomer corps to give up L4 missions and incursions to come down here and present themselves as potential targets. The commonality of nullsec players, especially those in low-grade space have a "highsec PvE alt" and their 0.0 main for roams and CTAs is becoming more common all the time. The risk/reward ratio is already lagging behind the other regions as is, upping the risk without the reward is just going to dry up what few guys still grind in 0.0 that are left. I don't think any gankers would care if the ganked are making enough money doing what they do to continue buying ships and trying again.

If anything, what you'll see it being replaced with is a sov-dependent anchorable module that can be incapped to remove the intel capabilities in a system, with standings-based access to said intel.

afk cloaking nerf is only viable if local get significantly nerfed, regardless of any sov structures for local, you can expect them as available in any system which is being used, so a sov structure is not a nerf at all. No instant local information is mandatory in any case if you want afk cloakers to get nerfed.

This (assuming the removal of Local Chat Intel) is the most balanced cloak detection system I've read so far.

The new ship should come from a new skill following Recon V, The probe ability from new skills following maxed Astrometrics skills, and the SDFD from a new skill following Cloaking V. Making it very specialized and from the same skill trees of those it hunts. T3s would not get access, they're a flexible ship class not a specialist one, and already hold too many trump cards over other CovOps ships.

While were talking about new skills, an Adavanced Cloaking Skill that reduces Targeting Delay to zero for non Bombers at level V would be a welcome addition, and no doubt needed for these Cloak Hunting ships to work properly.

The ships themselves could be Adv Recons, that sacrifice Cyno bonus for the ability to more easily fit a new type of Expanded probe Launcher, and lose one of their EWAR Bonuses to be able to fit and use the SDFD. No need for brand new ship models just slightly adjust existing Recons.

So skills would be:

Adv Recon: Requires Recon V and Cloaking V, 20% Bonus per level to SDFD Range and Pulse recharge time (max 50km 10sec)

Adv Cloaking: Requires Cloaking V, -10% Bonus per level to Targeting delay with CovOps cloaks. (BlackOps need to be included in this somehow as well)

SDFD Operation: Requires Cloaking V, Bonus, Reduction in Cap use and fitting requirements for the SDFD Mod.

Astrometric Subspace Detection: Requires Astrometrics Pinpointing and Rangefinding V, Bonus in reducing possible range deviation of the scanned cloaked ship from the warp-in point using the new Probe Launcher. Max skills 25-30km, minimum 50km.

Also, one other change to CovOps cloaks that should occur is that they stay cloaked when you log out.




Thanks, edited it for clarity.