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PIE transporting Slaves within the Republic
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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#21 - 2012-01-19 11:41:58 UTC
There's a great big flaw here in comparing PIE with D-Ston, and I'm surprised no one has yet pointed this out.

I'm disappointed to see such rash action from PIE once again, this recent spate of behaviour is in the petty levels I would normally be glad to see them be above.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2012-01-19 11:43:08 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Conventia Underking wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
We often have pilots who forcibly emancipate slaves come onto the IGS and claim that the slaves are free to return to the Empire if they wish.

So it's odd that the supporters of violent emancipation would be against PIE transporting Minmatars back home.


As happy as I am to see you flying for... the second... maybe third time in as many years, I find it hard to believe that PIE would suddenly start humanitarian missions into Minmatar space while none were planned during my time there. That said, I would like to welcome you to contact me in the future and I will attempt to arrange safer passage through the war-zone than flying around in a Sigil. Given that PIE Inc. owns a Prorator BPO and cloaks are relatively cheap, that would be yet another safer alternative for transport, if that were your true goal. All things considered, it seems pretty obvious that you sacrificed the lives of innocent slaves, needlessly.


Why would we hide when we have nothing to hide?

Just for the record, in your opinion should emancipated Minmatars be allowed to return to the Empire if they so wish?


The question is not whether you have anything to hide, but about the safety of the human beings in question. If you value life, then you make sacrifices to preserve it. I believe that is why the Empire uses capsuleer technology at all, is it not? The preservation of human beings at the sacrifice of our souls?

And, I believe I've noted before that I'm not opposed to slavery, in principle.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2012-01-19 11:47:14 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
I suppose you save me the effort to tell about the event.

But yes, our task-force was there to rescue souls who requested our assistance. To keep it simple, it was a rescue mission for civilians who where completely unsupported by the Republic and left to starve on various barren planets along the front lines. We where successful picking up a majority of our targets


That sounds rather similar to what i and my fellow Covenant members do, raid unguarded settlements for easy pickings, its not as sporting as a proper engagement but you need slaves and i need fresh captures.

Well it seems we're not so different after all.


On the contrary, the Minmatars that we collected last night left with us voluntarily.

Also, we have no plans to drain them of blood which is another difference between us and you.


You also lacked the plans to ensure their safety, despite being more than capable of such.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2012-01-19 11:48:47 UTC
Conventia Underking wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
I suppose you save me the effort to tell about the event.

But yes, our task-force was there to rescue souls who requested our assistance. To keep it simple, it was a rescue mission for civilians who where completely unsupported by the Republic and left to starve on various barren planets along the front lines. We where successful picking up a majority of our targets


That sounds rather similar to what i and my fellow Covenant members do, raid unguarded settlements for easy pickings, its not as sporting as a proper engagement but you need slaves and i need fresh captures.

Well it seems we're not so different after all.


On the contrary, the Minmatars that we collected last night left with us voluntarily.

Also, we have no plans to drain them of blood which is another difference between us and you.


You also lacked the plans to ensure their safety, despite being more than capable of such.


It's true that our intel was inadequate.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2012-01-19 11:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Conventia Underking wrote:


And, I believe I've noted before that I'm not opposed to slavery, in principle.


In which case, I'm surprised that you object to us transporting previously emancipated slaves through Republic space in order to avoid the TLF fleet.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-01-19 11:55:05 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:


On the contrary, the Minmatars that we collected last night left with us voluntarily.

Also, we have no plans to drain them of blood which is another difference between us and you.


Mr.Blake you are trying to defend what is clearly an Imperial slave raid on Minmatar citizens, if it was humanitarian in any nature you would have contacted the relevent authorities in the Minmatar Militia to negotiate.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2012-01-19 12:20:12 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Conventia Underking wrote:


And, I believe I've noted before that I'm not opposed to slavery, in principle.


In which case, I'm surprised that you object to us transporting previously emancipated slaves through Republic space in order to avoid the TLF fleet.


It would seem that the desires of the slaves becomes a "he said, she said" conundrum rather quickly. The only safe assumption is that they have, statistically speaking, a desire to survive and therefore, you getting them killed was the worst possible outcome.

I would also disagree, simply because it is illegal.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2012-01-19 12:30:29 UTC
Conventia Underking wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Conventia Underking wrote:


And, I believe I've noted before that I'm not opposed to slavery, in principle.


In which case, I'm surprised that you object to us transporting previously emancipated slaves through Republic space in order to avoid the TLF fleet.


It would seem that the desires of the slaves becomes a "he said, she said" conundrum rather quickly. The only safe assumption is that they have, statistically speaking, a desire to survive and therefore, you getting them killed was the worst possible outcome.

I would also disagree, simply because it is illegal.


I refer you to the the words of your corpmate:

Quote:
If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed.


I didn't notice the Republic Fleet and the RSS objecting to our activities, so by your corpmate's logic we were acting within the bounds of the law.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#29 - 2012-01-19 12:50:07 UTC
Are people really expecting Imperialists to justify a slave raid and worry about violating Republic law?

Are the imperialists doing just that?

Well how bout that, I just saw a fedo grow wings and fly away.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#30 - 2012-01-19 13:26:27 UTC
All arguments aside...

Well done!

(( Grr, why does this stuff happen on the days i work 12 hours? ))

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#31 - 2012-01-19 16:15:36 UTC
After a hundred years of Imperial lies about their true intentions and attempts to explain away their slave raids, they continue with just that. Color me surprised.

Kazzzi wrote:
Well how bout that, I just saw a fedo grow wings and fly away.
Stop discriminating against Coercers.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2012-01-19 16:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Arkady Sadik wrote:
After a hundred years of Imperial lies about their true intentions and attempts to explain away their slave raids, they continue with just that. Color me surprised.


You must have missed the part where it was explained that the evacuations were voluntary.

Or don't you believe in self-determination for your kind?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#33 - 2012-01-19 16:36:01 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Or don't you believe in self-determination for your kind?
Sure I do. I somehow doubt that they retain their right to self-determination now, though. Because you do not believe in self-determination for my kind. Glad we are back to the root of the conflict between our people.

Rodj Blake wrote:
You must have missed the part where it was explained that the evacuations were voluntary.
"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


(For readers who do not follow every silly thread on IGS: Such proof is impossible to provide. PIE has recently asked for impossible-to-provide proof, and claimed that the absence of such proof is proof of the contrary.)
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2012-01-19 16:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Or don't you believe in self-determination for your kind?
Sure I do. I somehow doubt that they retain their right to self-determination now, though. Because you do not believe in self-determination for my kind. Glad we are back to the root of the conflict between our people.

Rodj Blake wrote:
You must have missed the part where it was explained that the evacuations were voluntary.
"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


(For readers who do not follow every silly thread on IGS: Such proof is impossible to provide. PIE has recently asked for impossible-to-provide proof, and claimed that the absence of such proof is proof of the contrary.)


If you don't believe us, then you're welcome to set us red or declare war.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#35 - 2012-01-19 17:03:20 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Or don't you believe in self-determination for your kind?
Sure I do. I somehow doubt that they retain their right to self-determination now, though. Because you do not believe in self-determination for my kind. Glad we are back to the root of the conflict between our people.

Rodj Blake wrote:
You must have missed the part where it was explained that the evacuations were voluntary.
"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


(For readers who do not follow every silly thread on IGS: Such proof is impossible to provide. PIE has recently asked for impossible-to-provide proof, and claimed that the absence of such proof is proof of the contrary.)


If you don't believe us, then you're welcome to set us red or declare war.


I believe you were at war. For about three years. Or did I miss something?

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#36 - 2012-01-19 17:40:54 UTC
I, for one, am shocked and surprised by the revelations in this thread.

The common and oft-repeated phrase that "X doesn't undock" has been shown to be an Untruth.

My world view, it is turned upside down by this dramatic surprise.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#37 - 2012-01-19 18:30:48 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:


I refer you to the the words of your corpmate:

Quote:
If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed.


I didn't notice the Republic Fleet and the RSS objecting to our activities, so by your corpmate's logic we were acting within the bounds of the law.

In hisec. The authorities would come down on you in areas where they patrol. Using basic logic, one knows that if the cops are not there to see you, they will not take action.

If you want to muck around in an already-bloodstained warzone in a flimsy Sigil and risk innocent lives, that's on you. Be prepared to suffer the consequences and lose face as a corporation when things do not go According To Plan.
Kaleigh Doyle
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-01-19 18:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle
So...PIE is transporting persons, who may be willing or otherwise, through low security space from the Republic to the Empire, and Teraa Matar is displeased with their unsafe travel practices? *pinches the bridge of her nose* Maybe next time you'd like to help them with the transport operations to ensure their safety. (please don't.) You're already giving advice, why not?

xoxo
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-01-19 18:58:48 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


I don't recall you heathens bringing the same accusations against the Disciples of Ston for their "voluntary" relocations?

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#40 - 2012-01-19 19:12:32 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
"PIE Inc. has so far failed to present any credible proof that the people they took went with them voluntarily."


I don't recall you heathens bringing the same accusations against the Disciples of Ston for their "voluntary" relocations?


No but PIE did, and by this action they're rather hypocritical.

But here's something everyone seems to have missed. The Disciples are a neutral organisation, PIE are not.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.