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Pos and the Fuel Blocks
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#21 - 2012-01-20 20:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Personally the only thing I am unclear on is what happens if you have the double fuel bay full when down time for the update comes?

Will the fuel bay just be temporarily over loaded until the extra is used up or will the extra fuel be moved to the nearest corp hanger? Since not all POS's have a corp hanger array this could be a problem that might cause a bug when it goes live.


The fuel bay size will revert to the original "expanded" size on the 24th, same time as the fuel switch. The "old" fuel bays held about 22 days of fuel, the new "expanded" size holds about 28 days. So going forward, we'll be able to put about a month's worth of fuel into the towers at a time.

If your tower's fuel bay is filled to the brim and overflowing after the size changes downward, the only thing that happens is nothing at all. You can remove existing fuel, but you can't add more fuel because the fuel bay is already full (and over-full). (And the dev responsible for the change answered in an earlier thread that they had tested to see what happens if a fuel bay is "over-full" and it worked fine.)

So if you were to fill up your tower is about 1 week of old-style fuel today, then cram it full of pellets, you could conceivably not have to refill the tower until late-March (about 8 weeks from now).
Yith Za'bolazhi
Boom Boom Industries
DammFam
#22 - 2012-01-23 16:32:15 UTC
Did these new fuel blocks make running a tower more expensive with the change Question
Lando Antilles
#23 - 2012-01-23 16:38:29 UTC
Yith Za'bolazhi wrote:
Did these new fuel blocks make running a tower more expensive with the change Question


/sigh

to answer your question... EVE = spreadsheets

or, you could read any of the many threads on this topic.
Yith Za'bolazhi
Boom Boom Industries
DammFam
#24 - 2012-01-23 18:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Yith Za'bolazhi
Lando Antilles wrote:
Yith Za'bolazhi wrote:
Did these new fuel blocks make running a tower more expensive with the change Question


/sigh

to answer your question... EVE = spreadsheets

or, you could read any of the many threads on this topic.




When i was at skool we never had computers let alone spread sheets.

Besides theirs always some other noob to do that these days & no i don't read the forums as they are full of crap & constantly repeated **** .

I was just hoping some noob would repeat various crap before i have to do any real work with a pen & paper Lol
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2012-01-24 10:56:09 UTC
Yith Za'bolazhi wrote:
Lando Antilles wrote:
Yith Za'bolazhi wrote:
Did these new fuel blocks make running a tower more expensive with the change Question


/sigh

to answer your question... EVE = spreadsheets

or, you could read any of the many threads on this topic.




When i was at skool we never had computers let alone spread sheets.

Besides theirs always some other noob to do that these days & no i don't read the forums as they are full of crap & constantly repeated **** .

I was just hoping some noob would repeat various crap before i have to do any real work with a pen & paper Lol


Technically yes the new fuel blocks did make the pos more expensive to run, however all they have done is make the towers run asif all the cpu and powergrid was being used up, so depending on how you ran your tower the price would wither stay the same or go up abit. If your buying the blocks ready made off the market atm then the price to run a tower has sky rocketed, but if your building the blocks yourself the prices would be much of a change.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-01-24 11:41:53 UTC
So, place your bets now...

Once DT is over and patch is deployed, what will happen?

- Will every tower be offline?
- Will POSes have sprouted wings, gained sentience and are chomping up all defensive modules?
- Will there be epic emergency downtimes and reboots to fix things?

:awaits server onlining in anticipation with a bag of popcorn:
Lili Lu
#27 - 2012-01-24 22:08:20 UTC
on a very cursory inspection in just one empire system, it appears to me that about 40-50% of pos are offline as of the eve time of this post.

I'm sure there are people running larger samples, especially in low sec and null sec P
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#28 - 2012-01-25 02:02:36 UTC
actually the cost of running a small or medium tower has be reduced.

Compare the fuel requirements of the towers before the patch to the costs of a run of fuel blocks.

small tower 4 hours = 40 blocks

medium 2 hours = 40 blocks

large 1 hour = 40 blocks

for example before the patch all towers used 1 robotics per hour regardless of size. Now the fuel block blueprint uses 1 robotics for 40 blocks or 4 hours on a small tower.

I will not post my spreadsheet but there are several fuel components that are significantly less for small and medium towers. only minor savings on large towers with well researched BPO's.

I have been making large batches of fuel blocks with BPO's at 200 ME and 100 PE (just because I had extra time with the patch pushed off, might as well leave them in the cooker)

I have seen significant saving on small and medium towers. not so much on a large.

The only real increase is in fuel isk cost from the increase in the cost of the fuel materials but that was a result of the new customs office nothing to do with the fuel blocks. The actual amount of fuel materials consumed is lower over all.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#29 - 2012-01-25 02:27:21 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
on a very cursory inspection in just one empire system, it appears to me that about 40-50% of pos are offline as of the eve time of this post.


Null/Low would be more interesting.

In hi-sec, due to way corp standings work and the requirement to have 5.00 / 6.00 / 7.00 corp standings to anchor new towers, many corps with expansion plans will anchor a bunch of towers during that week when they have the required standings - but they will then leave most of them offline (but anchored).

So offline towers in hi-sec today don't mean that they forgot to put in fuel blocks. Especially if there is nothing around the tower or just some defensive modules.

Offlined towers with labs / arrays, OTOH, are probably good evidence of abandonment or someone who didn't remember to put in fuel blocks.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#30 - 2012-01-25 02:33:30 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
actually the cost of running a small or medium tower has be reduced.

Compare the fuel requirements of the towers before the patch to the costs of a run of fuel blocks.


Small/medium tower costs went down by a fair amount. Assuming that you bought all of your ingredients today, and burned the max PG/CPU (not always the case, but it only lowers the number a bit):

Amarr: 141 / 226 / 396
Caldari: 146 / 235 / 415
Gallente: 182 / 306 / 557
Minmatar: 152 / 248 / 440

With the new fuel pellets (assuming that you manufacture your own):

Amarr: 94 / 187 / 371 - 12894 ISK/u
Caldari: 99 / 195 / 388 - 13476 ISK/u
Gallente: 130 / 258 / 514 - 17863 ISK/u
Minmatar: 104 / 206 / 411 - 14257 ISK/u

Under the old system, most hi-sec towers were CPU-capped and maybe only used 1/3 of their PG. You might think this is a big deal, except that the maximum ISK you would pay to fuel a large tower with HW is only about 13.5M ISK/30d (at 125 ISK/u). And once HW drops back down below 90 ISK/u, it becomes even less of an issue.

The LOz price, OTOH, is a bigger chunk of change. For a large tower under the old system, if you were maxed out on CPU you paid about 52.4M ISK per 30 days.

So, large towers mostly broke about even. Medium towers saw a very definite decrease per month of 20-30M ISK. Small towers saw a decrease in costs per month of 20-30M ISK.

And as I've said repeatedly over the past few months - if your business plan can't handle POS fuel costs going up/down by 20% month to month, then you need to rethink your business plan. Or start supplementing your income with PI planets and doing some ice mining. Or stock up when fuel components are cheap, enough to outlast any temporary price spikes.
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