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[PETITION] Don't mess with OUR WH's - Two Step, We are counting on You

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Zarak1 Kenpach1
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#61 - 2012-04-15 21:38:09 UTC
i dont think anyone here would say that they want WH space to stay the same no matter what but, what was suggested and agreed with by these members of the CSM was purely self interest or ignorance of the mechanics. Either way, the ignorant should of just stayed out of what they didnt understand all that well (mittens) and the selfish (meissa) should of just shut the **** up and kept his agenda in game and not on the table of the CSM.
killroy v2
Fractured Dominions
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2012-04-21 19:26:32 UTC
Lord Lewtz wrote:

+1 Just say no to easy cap and blob mechanics.

^this
killroy v2
Fractured Dominions
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2012-07-01 04:07:29 UTC
Snowflake Tem wrote:
I tried very hard not to snigger, but the juvenile in me could not resist a smirk at your begging for your wormholes not to be interfered with.

why they are as they should beShocked, compared to almost all of the rest of eve...
Ned Black
Driders
#64 - 2012-07-02 06:52:52 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Agree with you on everything but the last bit, which I have supported elsewhere. I can see a use for limited mass stabilization of Wormholes using player anchored gates/structures. These would require fuel of course, and function like a POS in that fashion, and also be capable of being destroyed. No reinforcement timer.



Ah... Never had your wormhole pos camped 24/7 by a major invader huh?

Most wormhole corps are small size. The current wormhole mechanic is a good thing.

You want to stabilize my wormhole so you can shove endless amounts of T3's through it? Would you consider letting me moon mine in my wormhole? Now that would make you 0.0 carebears really cry.

Oh... and for crying out loud. You wanted the 5000+ members in your alliance so you could "own" 0.0. What's the problem? Having a hard time supporting all of them?

Cry harder. I'll send some tissues. I suggest you figure out how to make 0.0 profitable.

Otherwise it seems like you're a failure at 0.0 and just want to mooch off the pro's who specialize in making team work happen in Wormholes. Certainly seems that way with lowsec incursions. Pathetic. Really pathetic.


Nothing would make nullbears cry harder than removing local from nullspace... how can they do PvE if they are not 100% sure that their system is empty? Oh gawd, they would be in harms way and while its fun ganking the living hell out of miners in highsec and telling them there is no safe place in eve its not as much fun getting ganked yourself.

As a side note I really would like sleeper attacks on POSes and camped wormholes... on the other hand it would be equally hillarious if incursion Sanshas would attack towers and sov structures in null... but I am sure that the majority of the nullsec crowd would not agree with me there :p

As to the stabilizer its complete lunacy...
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-07-02 21:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
Why are you talking about changing WHes? Stop it. Fix my POS and be done with it.

Everything in wormholes is fine.

I ♥ the orthrus
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#66 - 2012-07-02 22:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
Seriously? What the hell is wrong with the people in this thread. WH dwellers too. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Line up right now so I can slap some sense in you.

Wormholes are one of the richest areas of the game currently. You put in money, you get out MUCH more money, and you have the ability to buy your super shiney you have always dreamed of.

WHY IN THE HELL would anyone want to change that. I can see the c2-c4 residents making their claims here and ACTUALLY thinking they are good, that can be forgiven, but your c5-c6ers... do you realize what you are supporting? You are supporting the death of wormholes as we know it.

Sleepers shooting posses... No just no. I do not want to have to haul in ammo for my pos every two weeks along with the fuel runs. (well I dont actually make the runs, but I have in the past so I know the pain)

Sleepers podding people. Yes cause this makes sense. Lets support getting podded by sleepers... that way it can take us three weeks to get back into our home.

Quote:
There are hard limits on what one can move trough a certain type of WH.

This limits both: ship size and ships amount that can at one time move into given WH in short time. This allows us to keep WH in range of small-pvp scale engagements. Which is great for WH gameplay


What?! So we run sites in static, even get a little bit of pew in, time to pop our hole. OH LOOK our dread got caught in the static because we reached the hard limit on number of jumps. Think before you post...


Sleepers attacking safespots... Seriously? Are you serious here? You are going to make me fit a cloak on EVERY SINGLE ship I have? I guess this would also move sleepers to appear on the wormholes as well, cause you know it fits in with this line of thinking. This would mean that no calculated ganks, no concerted setups that take a few minutes to get going are viable. Everything is all. "Grab a kite ship and HURRY sleepers will start showing up any second and I my oracle/falcon/rapier cant tank them."

One final note that was not mentioned in the OP but several people are mentioning. Wormhole stabilizers. NO NO NO NO NO! This will end all wormhole life as it is. The major null sec groups will invade when either cfc or soco wins their little war over delve and we, the wormholers, will pay the price for it.

This is what wormholes need. More noobs in my c5s and c6s (its more likely than you think) so I can shoot them. Simple as that.

I make plenty of money inside of wormholes, and I work a full time job with only two days out of the week to make my money. I rarely, if ever, make money on my work days, and I make enough to support two toons with plexes, and buy bhaalghorns, black ops, and other shiny ships that tickle my fancy, and I get enough time to rustle enough jimmies of noobs to fill my cup with their delicious tears.

If you want to change anything about wormholes, give us some pos upgrades (NO DOCKING!!!!) so that it will be a tad bit easier to not get donkey effed by a spai.
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-07-02 22:17:23 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
Seriously? What the hell is wrong with the people in this thread. WH dwellers too. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Line up right now so I can slap some sense in you.

Wormholes are one of the richest areas of the game currently. You put in money, you get out MUCH more money, and you have the ability to buy your super shiney you have always dreamed of.

WHY IN THE HELL would anyone want to change that. I can see the c2-c4 residents making their claims here and ACTUALLY thinking they are good, that can be forgiven, but your c5-c6ers... do you realize what you are supporting? You are supporting the death of wormholes as we know it.

Sleepers shooting posses... No just no. I do not want to have to haul in ammo for my pos every two weeks along with the fuel runs. (well I dont actually make the runs, but I have in the past so I know the pain)

Sleepers podding people. Yes cause this makes sense. Lets support getting podded by sleepers... that way it can take us three weeks to get back into our home.

Quote:
There are hard limits on what one can move trough a certain type of WH.

This limits both: ship size and ships amount that can at one time move into given WH in short time. This allows us to keep WH in range of small-pvp scale engagements. Which is great for WH gameplay


What?! So we run sites in static, even get a little bit of pew in, time to pop our hole. OH LOOK our dread got caught in the static because we reached the hard limit on number of jumps. Think before you post...


Sleepers attacking safespots... Seriously? Are you serious here? You are going to make me fit a cloak on EVERY SINGLE ship I have? I guess this would also move sleepers to appear on the wormholes as well, cause you know it fits in with this line of thinking. This would mean that no calculated ganks, no concerted setups that take a few minutes to get going are viable. Everything is all. "Grab a kite ship and HURRY sleepers will start showing up any second and I my oracle/falcon/rapier cant tank them."

One final note that was not mentioned in the OP but several people are mentioning. Wormhole stabilizers. NO NO NO NO NO! This will end all wormhole life as it is. The major null sec groups will invade when either cfc or soco wins their little war over delve and we, the wormholers, will pay the price for it.

This is what wormholes need. More noobs in my c5s and c6s (its more likely than you think) so I can shoot them. Simple as that.

I make plenty of money inside of wormholes, and I work a full time job with only two days out of the week to make my money. I rarely, if ever, make money on my work days, and I make enough to support two toons with plexes, and buy bhaalghorns, black ops, and other shiny ships that tickle my fancy, and I get enough time to rustle enough jimmies of noobs to fill my cup with their delicious tears.

If you want to change anything about wormholes, give us some pos upgrades (NO DOCKING!!!!) so that it will be a tad bit easier to not get donkey effed by a spai.


Not emptyquoting

I ♥ the orthrus
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#68 - 2012-07-03 02:40:44 UTC
I think apart from a POS update W-space is working as intended

wumbo
n4d444
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-07-03 09:40:40 UTC
Lord Lewtz wrote:

+1 Just say no to easy cap and blob mechanics.


+1 to this, easy blob mechanics are killing eve
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#70 - 2012-07-03 12:27:05 UTC
Anyone who suggests increased mass or extended time on wormholes can **** off. They're either completely ignorant of wormhole space or desperate to bend it to their own advantage.

Just sort the POS systems out and wormholes would be perfect
Mr Adama
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-07-10 03:05:42 UTC
+1 Fix the POS nightmare, and if they manage to get it right, give us lead way to wh trade via ice then leave it in the working state it is in.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#72 - 2012-08-08 20:55:42 UTC
+1 tottaly agree

But i would like To create a POS pattern

You can Online
Small POS== 1 small silo + small polymer reaction +1 small corporate hangar + 1 small refining array + 1 ASsembLy array ( you choose to online one of them ( equipment or Small ship etc etc etc ) and 6 small batteries + 6 non gun batteries.

MEDIUM POS same thing With Medium Structures or 2X structure of a small POS
Large POS 2X medium onlineable structure or 6Xtime small....

Make the Sleepeers tougher, and make Small escalation for C1-C4 : if you come With a BS A Sleeper BS will PoP.... etc etc


I'm Not against the idea of a system Who extend the lifetime of a Whormole but put some restriction : You can do it With a Ship Only one Kind === black ops , a module like an ecm burst .
But only Inside the W-space... you can't do it cloaked ^^


But no modification of MASS limitations

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Xantos Semah
#73 - 2012-08-08 21:12:35 UTC
Agree.

+1

REMOVE LOCAL !!!
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#74 - 2012-08-09 10:18:17 UTC
Completely agree with the OP. WH-space is defined by living in the most remote, challenging, unforgiving places, while getting great rewards on being an adventurer, and truly being alone in space, depending completely on yourself.
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-08-11 17:12:23 UTC
The only thing i disagree with are capital ships in C1-4 WHs. I personally enjoy killing some noob who just got his carrier out of the oven sitting on a high sec wormhole in a C1 lol.

Maybe that's just me.
Balanah
Quebec's Underdog League
Quebec United Legions
#76 - 2012-08-31 15:10:22 UTC
Only two words: Alliance Bookmarks

Wormhole animal.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#77 - 2012-08-31 16:08:14 UTC

WH's are not well in the current incarnation.... but that has to do with predictability...

A wh stabilizer by itself is a bad idea.... but a WH stabilizer coupled with more... interesting... WH mechanics is potentially a good idea. To Elaborate:
-- Right now, all quality WH dwellers know how much mass it requires to close a WH.... they know all the tricks and techniques to quickly, safely, and almost risklessly close a WH...... They use these mechanics to make their WH's extremely safe when they want to run start running sites, and they use this mechanic to open up new WH's so they can farm the systems next door.... To be honest, I think the mechanics to close a WH is very flawed, because it's far too exact.... WH's need to be far, far less manageable, so players actually gamble on whether they'll lose a ship on the wrong side. If you make the WH's much more risky to close, people will start to leave them "destabilized".... to compensate, add a WH stabilizer that insures a moderate force can traverse the WH without it collapsing.... The stabilizer can then act as a beach head that needs defending, because if it gets destroyed, that force probably wont' all be able to return...

I realize there is a downside to making WH's far harder to safely close..... Essentially, it hurts the ability of WH dwellers who farm out their system's plexes and need to be able to create new WH's to other systems to run.... IMO, rather than continuously collapse your static WH until you find a system you like, there should be a mechanic to open new WH's, while leaving the old WH's alone.... The price of farming multiple WH's is you must deal with more routes for potential hostiles to find you..
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-08-31 17:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

WH's are not well in the current incarnation.... but that has to do with predictability...


They seem to be working perfectly fine actually, We all seem to enjoy them.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A wh stabilizer by itself is a bad idea.... but a WH stabilizer coupled with more... interesting... WH mechanics is potentially a good idea. ... WH's need to be far, far less manageable, so players actually gamble on whether they'll lose a ship on the wrong side.


Actually a stabilizer is just a bad idea, You want to take one of the only parts of the eve that limits blobs and remove that limiter? Doesn't really make sense there

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

If you make the WH's much more risky to close, people will start to leave them "destabilized".... to compensate, add a WH stabilizer that insures a moderate force can traverse the WH without it collapsing.... The stabilizer can then act as a beach head that needs defending, because if it gets destroyed, that force probably wont' all be able to return...


People already leave holes critical, it happens all the time, moderate forces already can go through wormholes, It seems you dont know how mass works, and that 3billion is a rather large number and can fit a large amount of ships. I'm getting the feeling you don't even fly in W-Space because your views are so skewed.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I realize there is a downside to making WH's far harder to safely close..... Essentially, it hurts the ability of WH dwellers who farm out their system's plexes and need to be able to create new WH's to other systems to run.... IMO, rather than continuously collapse your static WH until you find a system you like, there should be a mechanic to open new WH's, while leaving the old WH's alone....


No, you just want wormholes to be like Kspace, gtfo.

I ♥ the orthrus
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-08-31 18:36:10 UTC
Ayeson wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

WH's are not well in the current incarnation.... but that has to do with predictability...


They seem to be working perfectly fine actually, We all seem to enjoy them.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A wh stabilizer by itself is a bad idea.... but a WH stabilizer coupled with more... interesting... WH mechanics is potentially a good idea. ... WH's need to be far, far less manageable, so players actually gamble on whether they'll lose a ship on the wrong side.


Actually a stabilizer is just a bad idea, You want to take one of the only parts of the eve that limits blobs and remove that limiter? Doesn't really make sense there

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

If you make the WH's much more risky to close, people will start to leave them "destabilized".... to compensate, add a WH stabilizer that insures a moderate force can traverse the WH without it collapsing.... The stabilizer can then act as a beach head that needs defending, because if it gets destroyed, that force probably wont' all be able to return...


People already leave holes critical, it happens all the time, moderate forces already can go through wormholes, It seems you dont know how mass works, and that 3billion is a rather large number and can fit a large amount of ships. I'm getting the feeling you don't even fly in W-Space because your views are so skewed.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I realize there is a downside to making WH's far harder to safely close..... Essentially, it hurts the ability of WH dwellers who farm out their system's plexes and need to be able to create new WH's to other systems to run.... IMO, rather than continuously collapse your static WH until you find a system you like, there should be a mechanic to open new WH's, while leaving the old WH's alone....


No, you just want wormholes to be like Kspace, gtfo.


Even though i puke at the sound of "WH stabilizer" You seems to totally missunderstood what the guy tried to say, maybe re-read it :P

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#80 - 2012-08-31 19:01:46 UTC
Ayeson wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A wh stabilizer by itself is a bad idea.... but a WH stabilizer coupled with more... interesting... WH mechanics is potentially a good idea. ... WH's need to be far, far less manageable, so players actually gamble on whether they'll lose a ship on the wrong side.


Actually a stabilizer is just a bad idea, You want to take one of the only parts of the eve that limits blobs and remove that limiter? Doesn't really make sense there


A blob is a moderately ambiguous buzzword that pretty much refers to any group of ships that outnumber and/or outclass your group of ships..... A WH stabilizer obviously needs limits, and shouldn't allow an infinite number of ships through... and that's not what I'm suggesting.... Quit screaming "the sky is falling", he just wants a tool to bring in 500 man gangs and supers to crush my POS... and actually read what I write...

Ayeson wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

If you make the WH's much more risky to close, people will start to leave them "destabilized".... to compensate, add a WH stabilizer that insures a moderate force can traverse the WH without it collapsing.... The stabilizer can then act as a beach head that needs defending, because if it gets destroyed, that force probably wont' all be able to return...


People already leave holes critical, it happens all the time, moderate forces already can go through wormholes, It seems you dont know how mass works, and that 3billion is a rather large number and can fit a large amount of ships. I'm getting the feeling you don't even fly in W-Space because your views are so skewed.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I realize there is a downside to making WH's far harder to safely close..... Essentially, it hurts the ability of WH dwellers who farm out their system's plexes and need to be able to create new WH's to other systems to run.... IMO, rather than continuously collapse your static WH until you find a system you like, there should be a mechanic to open new WH's, while leaving the old WH's alone....


No, you just want wormholes to be like Kspace, gtfo.


I want to make WH's more unpredictable.... As it is... its EXTREMELY EASY to manage your WH entrances and exits.... This is wrong... and that's what I want changed.... You need a new system to farm, close your static and wait for the new WH to spawn... don't like that there are potential hostiles through a WH, close the WH by sending X amount of mass through it.... There is very little risk, and very little downsides to the above....

My point is that if WH mechanics change, so you use stabilizers to control ship movement through a WH (rather than static game-able mass attributes), you could solve the idiotically low-risk close WH, open WH, close WH, open WH nonsense that prevails in WH Life. In this sense, WH stabilizers (which are really just the new player operated mass mechanic that can be interfered with by third parties) would be interesting and potentially good.... Then again, if you were a risk-adverse PvE'er that can't handle more risk in your WH, I understand why you'd be vehemently opposed to this...