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Nerfing Caldari?

First post
Author
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-01-18 14:33:27 UTC
i hate to be so droll, but post with your nulsec main and then we'll see if you qualify as an authority on the matter

also, stop the bullcrap about missions and incursions. Only a fool would take a Drake into either.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#162 - 2012-01-18 14:33:42 UTC
Qarth wrote:

Let the Winmatar and Amar languish for a few years as you start working on fixing the "other two" races ships.


Sorry to burst your bubble but Minmatar were laughed at and not even allowed in certain fleets for years. It was all "Amarr (anything) / Mega (and little else of Gallente) or GTFO".
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#163 - 2012-01-18 14:37:28 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:


You know, i think you are about 2 months too late on this whole 'hate on CSM' deal. The current CSM have handled the previously self destructive urges of CCP quite well i think, and we are currently headed towards the most brightest future EVE has known for quite some time.

Also, tell me why you are so mad about them exchanging some of the Drakes tank for gank.

There is literally nothing to complain about here, so stop trying.

Not much beyond the whole, completely ********, lets make the rest of EVE like 0.0 because 0.0 sucks.

Destructible NPC stations - because PL is soooo evil and bad and is hurting our ability to napfest
Destructible 0.0 stations in general...
Incursion nerfs, because 0.0 sucks
"Oh noes, what about the low sec pirates" as a reason for why FW can't be good or why the RISK in low sec can't be moderated
Wormhole stabilisers, because thats one thing w-space needs, more blobbing and 0.0 style blobs because one member on the CSM hasn't figured out how to evict people from wormholes.
And the whole general lobsided view on 0.0 - vested interests who were MORE OUT OF TOUCH THAN THE CCP WERE on a number of issues.

It was a pretty big fail if you actually read the minutes.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-01-18 14:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
i did read the minutes, and it was all great stuff

edit - well maybe not the wormhole stabiliser idea

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Endeavour Starfleet
#165 - 2012-01-18 14:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
Skippermonkey wrote:
i hate to be so droll, but post with your nulsec main and then we'll see if you qualify as an authority on the matter

also, stop the bullcrap about missions and incursions. Only a fool would take a Drake into either.


No thanks.

As for you 2nd point I read it as "YAHHH F THE NEW GUYS! Join my alliance"

Besides CCP can spend two seconds and know who I am and know I have plenty of experience dealing with bullcrap nullsec politics.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-01-18 14:45:12 UTC
Endeavor, let me teach you something about hisec PVE progression.

lvl1 missions you use a frigate
lvl2 missions you use a cruiser
lvl3 missions you use a battlecruiser
lvl4 missions you use a battleship
lvl5 missions you just dont

as for incursions, get in a logi ship or get in a dps battleship

this is as basic as it goes, you can no longer worry about the 'new guy' because as far as non-incursion pve goes. They are more than likely going to train for a tengu anyway.

tl:dr all your grievances and annoyances have no grounding in reality

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#167 - 2012-01-18 14:46:16 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Rather than nerfing ECM...why not buff sensor damps like they intend to? A celestis/arazu/lach damping a falcon/rook is already very effective against birds at range....


This. Also need to take a look at the light ECM drones. They are currently a bit too effective for the relative cost (price and risk/reward).

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Endeavour Starfleet
#168 - 2012-01-18 14:47:39 UTC
Train for a Tengu? Are you playing EVE online? How on earth are they supposed to afford A Tengu.

Ohhh I see now. Maybe they will earn enough in nullsec to get one between defending moon goo on multiple CTAs in the same day.

+1 Huge alliances.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-01-18 14:49:54 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Train for a Tengu? Are you playing EVE online? How on earth are they supposed to afford A Tengu.

Ohhh I see now. Maybe they will earn enough in nullsec to get one between defending moon goo on multiple CTAs in the same day.

+1 Huge alliances.


Ive never joined a nulsec alliance, and can afford a tengu

also, if by some hillarious truth, this is actually your main and you fly in an NPC corp, try joining a corp. Its much more fun to fly with other pilots, and you get more done.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-01-18 14:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
jolas apt wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Nerf the Drake and the Tengu becomes more popular for PVP.


What you said exactly was, nerfing a 30mil hull will make a half billion one more popular for PVP. Do I need to explain where you argument fails?


Please do.

For some function does not depend upon costs. While each hull fills its role well at its price point, it would not deter some from depending solely on the tengu where in the past they have depended upon the drake. Cost being of little concern is not so much an indication of one's wealth as much as one's practicalities. There are advantages to the relatively smaller hull, decent DPS and huge tanks the drake is capable of when compared to other ships. When it ceases to be such the natural tendency is to move into the next best hull to fit that particular role which is not necessarily a linear move based on cost but rather capability. The reason the tengu is not more popular is because the drake's capabilities overlapping the tengu's, so well, at a price that is hard to ignore.

For example, you're more likely to see proteus' in fleet ops than myrms because, lets face it, the myrm doesn't begin to approach the proteus in all but the most gimped of proteus fits. At least in my neck of the woods. I am in w-space where large fleet fights with alliances throwing their members as fodder for a meat grinder doesn't really happen. So, perspective might have much to do with my analysis.

Don't ban me, bro!

Endeavour Starfleet
#171 - 2012-01-18 14:58:16 UTC
You do realize that then the same exact excuse that they will use to nerf the drake can and will be used to nerf the Tengu right?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-01-18 15:01:51 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
You do realize that then the same exact excuse that they will use to nerf the drake can and will be used to nerf the Tengu right?


I've already stated that Caldari should be rebalanced as a whole rather than a single ship.

Don't ban me, bro!

Endeavour Starfleet
#173 - 2012-01-18 15:03:25 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
You do realize that then the same exact excuse that they will use to nerf the drake can and will be used to nerf the Tengu right?


I've already stated that Caldari should be rebalanced as a whole rather than a single ship.


Wow so not only should we nuke the Drake from orbit. Lets drag up all the nukes ever made and nuke an entire in game race.

BRILLIANT!
Kingwood
Gone Krabbing
#174 - 2012-01-18 15:04:36 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
You do realize that then the same exact excuse that they will use to nerf the drake can and will be used to nerf the Tengu right?


I've already stated that Caldari should be rebalanced as a whole rather than a single ship.


Wow so not only should we nuke the Drake from orbit. Lets drag up all the nukes ever made and nuke an entire in game race.

BRILLIANT!


Hi, they're changing a spaceship in a videogame, not torturing your family or girlfriend. You should calm down a little.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-01-18 15:06:28 UTC
once more, repeat after me

CHANGING SHIP BONUSES IS NOT A NERF OR A BUFF

CCP_DarthVader wrote:
I am altering the Drake, pray i don't alter it any further

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#176 - 2012-01-18 15:10:11 UTC
dose any one even relise that the drake was and is the problem it breakes the mold, its the deffence of the Caldari gun boats with the mids of our sheild boats. I can't wait for my drakes to get this well needed damage boost! ROF on a BC till now thats been a BS and up thing.
Hi-sec mission runners you can do the exact damage you need at ranges to far for the NPC's to fight back from and 25%ROF is more that 25%dammage to one type.
Low sec PvPers HAM's any one? I like the idea of going toe to toe with canes Twisted
null sec get back in your tempest, why were you even in drakes before? Oh ya every one can fly them.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Endeavour Starfleet
#177 - 2012-01-18 15:11:53 UTC
It is a huge nerf for a great many that actually use them. The newer players as their first real ship. For the same players that decide THAT is the ship they are going to fly well.

I and many others see that as a nerf. A bit more HAM or HM range is meaningless when your drake melts.
Endeavour Starfleet
#178 - 2012-01-18 15:13:01 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
dose any one even relise that the drake was and is the problem it breakes the mold, its the deffence of the Caldari gun boats with the mids of our sheild boats. I can't wait for my drakes to get this well needed damage boost! ROF on a BC till now thats been a BS and up thing.
Hi-sec mission runners you can do the exact damage you need at ranges to far for the NPC's to fight back from and 25%ROF is more that 25%dammage to one type.
Low sec PvPers HAM's any one? I like the idea of going toe to toe with canes Twisted
null sec get back in your tempest, why were you even in drakes before? Oh ya every one can fly them.


You don't run missions do you.

By the time your burn out of range you will be destroyed.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#179 - 2012-01-18 15:16:36 UTC
No your right i don't do hi sec lvl 4's, but to be fare that's a team or BS job any way and you know it.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#180 - 2012-01-18 15:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Please keep in mind these notes date back from December, and as such some points may have evolved as we are gathering more data with time etc etc.


HAVE MY BABIES




Quote:
The newer players as their first real ship.


I think the idea that BCs are their first "real ships" is the attitude CCP is trying to combat. Hence,


Quote:
Incorrectly funnel new players: don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP. What's the point of a Bellicose? Exequror? Maller? Moa? They shouldn't be things you just skip on the way to a greater purpose, like a leaf of salad in my 250gr double-layered onion and egg hamburger.