EVE General Discussion

I probably qualify as a bitter vet, having started in December of 2005 (on my main).

I was in SPARTA, at the top of Deklein back when D2 was the power in the north, and I remember some crazy, crazy mining fleets going after all that crokite.

Zydrine was going at 4,000 isk/unit, and packing a taranis' cargo hold with Zydrine and running it back to empire could net you over 100 million ISK.

Then CCP introduced the drone regions, with minerals being dropped as loot. The bottom started falling out of the high-end market, with megacyte, zydrine and nocxium all falling rapidly.

I was reading the CSM minutes just published, and I noticed something VERY interesting at the top of page 16:

http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf


Many of us were screaming, several years back, that introducing the drone regions (with alloys as loot) was a major economic shift imposed on the players by CCP, seemingly without foresight.

After all these years... it seems like CCP is considering a roll-back.

I, for one, greatly endorse this. Removing drones alloys will greatly increase 0.0 and lowsec value... and I could easily see big alliances bringing in mining divisions (with a nice tax, naturally) to help fund their operations. Now, Tech moons won't be the only reasons people fight... and that's a good thing.

Thoughts?

Morganta is right about the terminology, but still let's hope CCP follows through. Drone goo is disproportionate, and mining fleets are better targets than Russian bots.

drones should poop fuel blocks

Moon goo would be interesting, too... but wouldn't that just transfer the problem from the mineral market to the moon-goo market?

With the minerals, you had people farming the top rats, bringing back only those alloys containing Mega, Zyd, Nocx and Morphite. Mining Morphite is a dedicated career for a miner, compared to the more banal minerals like Mega, Zyd, etc. I wonder how much of the morphite currently used in T2 production comes from mining, and how much comes from Drone poop?

There is a downside removing drone poop --> inflation. Massive, massive inflation.

You used to be able to buy NPC items off the market and refine them for trit. I believe Silos were a prime culprit. Because of this, the price of trit had a ceiling.... if refinining a silo gave you trit at 2.5 isk/unit (figure made up), no one smart would ever pay more for trit... they would just buy silos of the NPC market and refine them.

Then CCP lowered the available trit from NPC items, and a large side effect was the increase in Trit and Pyerite prices.

Now, this was OK... because during the same general time period, the drone regions were crashing high-end prices. So where the low ends cost more, the savings from high-ends kept prices relatively affordable.

However, if drone poop gets removed, high-ends will naturally spike in price. There is nothing to cause low-ends to get cheaper, and the net result will be a significant increase in the cost of...well, everything.

As the drone regions showed us when they launched, playing with minerals can have massive repercussions on every aspect of EVE life. In a game economy where everything is player made, changing the cost of a core building block can shift ever aspect of gameplay.

While some outcomes can be anticipated, I have to wonder.... what will happen that we simply haven't thought of?

I VERY MUCH like the idea of getting rid of drone poop.... but are we really sure what will happen if we do?

yep, there is not enough isk faucets in this game, let's add some more.

Drones should drop what they do currently.

But instead of refining down to minerals, the drone bits should be used by players to build.......wait for it........Drones.

Could be added as mats for regular old T1 Drones.

Or better yet CCP could toss in some Mid-Level Meta Drones a bit better than T1 and a bit worse than T2 perhaps.

Drone Mats could still be farmed in Missions in High Sec, Low-Sec or Null. Or from the Drones Regions, of course.

Problem solved.

To control inflation, removal of drone droppings could be done in parallel with other changes. For example:

Do not totally remove drone droppings, just lower them and add a small bounty
Reduce the bounty on other rats to keep the total ISK balanced
Reduce rat bounties and add loyalty points, and beef up the LP store. The LP store is a major ISK sink.
Increase the number of ships that must be destroyed before an incursion site is flagged complete, to reduce speed chaining the sites.

This might even revolutionise nullsec.

No, no, stop laughing and listen.

While moon goo is still quite a large isk faucet, the removal of drone salvage will put more pressure on alliances to mine. While everyone's mentioning hyperinflation and such - why is this a bad thing? SCs and capitals are far too common, and even battleships are seen around too much for my liking. Why not make it so everyone is put in their place and people have to pay exorbitant sums for these ships? It will enhance cooperation between people n shizz.

Also, it'll make mining worthwhile.

Excuse me for intruding, and I enjoyed your post very much. I do hear that miners are the scum of the EvE playland. You do know that if miners quit mining that eve would continue to chug along right? There IS NO NEED FOR MINERS!!!

So, why are we worried about mining again?

I'm just wondering, because I read all the time about how mining and miners are useless in this game, and that the game would go unchanged if they removed mining and miners from the game.

Thank you for your time ...

The biggest ISK faucet, by far, has got to be incursions... at least, the highsec ones. The degree to which they can be farmed.... i.e. abused, it insane.

That being said, I'll keep suckling from that teat until the well dries up, but I digress....

A 0.0 alliance needs money, whether its for ships, fuel, ammo or Sov, 0.0 alliances need money.

A 0.0 alliance owns space, with a refinery station in it. You can set standings-based refinery taxes easily enough, right? Why not set a 30% tax on a particular corp, and recruit miners specifically to 0.0.

Here's the pitch:

Come mine our belts in 0.0. They're yours.... come get them

You get:
-One fitted T1 mining barge of your choice on-location, or free transport of your own T2 ship from Empire
-Cheap, flat rate contracts for us transporting your high-ends back to empire
-A local market with sell orders, if you'd prefer to dump your mins on the market instead of shipping them to highsec
-Experienced PVP pilots keeping the skies safe... and an Intel Channel and stations/POS to hide in when bad guys are around
-Jump Clone in our home system, so you can go back and forth to empire easily.

What we get:
-25% refining tax
-10% corp tax
-access to minerals on-site, as opposed to mineral compression and transport from empire.[


Now.... if Zydrine goes back to the 3500-4000/unit days... don't you think that there is an army of 0.0 miners that might just be willing to try 0.0? Don't you think they'll believe the reward justifies the risk?

When you can strip a belt and make millions, who cares if you lose the occasional barge and clone?


...and you know what.... the "carebear" miner may just decide he is tired of being popped, and start training for an Interceptor. Or a Dictor..... or a HAC....

Once people learn that 0.0 isn't Hell, and that a little situational awareness goes a long way, they're more inclined to stay. Plus, no griefers can-flipping them all the time!