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New Dev Blog: CSM December summit – meeting minutes are out

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Author
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#221 - 2012-01-18 06:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
Bit much but nice reading.

I really don't like the idea of a cloak finding vessel. One of the reasons being that it will yet again take away from a high sec dweller to jump around low sec or 0.0.

Skill point redistribution: one_big_fat_NO!

Reward system: is about time! :)

Removing learning skill implants, not really for. That is why I have 5 jump clones. 1 with no learning, 1 with +3, 1 with +4 and 2 with +5's. The no learning used when I just know I'll just die, the others depending on my estimation of how nasty it can get, and the 5 for when I think I can get away with it. Tough I have 1 extra just in case. Bear

Med clone costs are indeed getting a "bit" high when you gather more SP. Maybe introduce a medical insurance skill like the trade skills that cut down on the price for your med clone.

And yes I gather it is hard to come up with something worth wile for old players to train for. But before you add another Sup-cap maybe you should fix the existing ones first.


But it looks like CCP is on the right track, actually caring about their product instead of dropping down a new feature and saying, "it is done. Next!"




Edit: Ugh jeebus CCP, fix your forums! If I hadn't read a previous post about copy/ paste what I just wrote this post too would had been erased.
Hareeb Rests
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2012-01-18 07:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hareeb Rests
A few things to throw in.
Botting should be punished brutally, there are null sec regions that are huge botting havens deep withing sov space. CSM members saying "they add to pvp" is garbage. The bots auto dock when you enter local. My guess is they are trying to keep their illegal income alive by spewing such lies and don't want to upset their alliance members (many of which are botters). Some systems, I've seen have tons of bubbles on the gates to slow you down so the bots have time to dock. They are cheating, ban them. I've played plenty of other games that have been ruined because of cheaters. If you don't put fear into cheaters you only harbor it and encourage more players to cheat. People who cheat shouldn't be getting an unfair advantage over me or any other honest player and the CSM shouldn't be sticking up for them. When the CSM says this it is clear they are putting their own alliances desires over that of the general player base. Besides less bots would mean less supercaps, where do you think they all came from?

Large alliances being able to disable services at NPC stations would be a nightmare. It would drive all the small gangs out of null/low sec. There are a lot of small gangs who take on these big alliances in pvp vastly outnumbered, in enemy space and they come out on top. If you allow them to use their numbers and influence on the CSM to change this mechanic they will be able to rule everything that isn't high sec. Which will just make it that much more comfortable for their botting hordes.
This also why they want a way to detect cloaked ships, because they harass their bots.

In general I think the CSM needs to be more balanced. It should be split 3 ways, a high, low, and null sec delegation of 3 members each. The large alliances shouldn't be able to use their numbers to have their voices heard over the entire player base of eve and skew the discussion towards the interests of null sec alone. (Botters have better representation on CSM than anyone!)

ECM is broken. It allows dirtbag/no skill pilots in their blobs, to fight much more talented players with a huge advantage. I've been in fights where we had 10 guys in our gang and the enemy wouldn't even leave dock until they had 100 people and enough jams to neutralize our entire fleet at absurd ranges. ECM removes piloting skill and decision making from PVP it should be riskier, because in small gang pvp the payoff is ridiculous. Look at shortening the range of them, so ECM ships can actually be dealt with and not sit in the back of a fleet making the enemies ships into flying paper weights. Also, doing missions or ratting vs ecm is agonizing. Sitting there getting perma-jammed and spending 30 minutes to kill 3 npcs is atrocious. Please fix.

If you want to get more players into low sec, then they have to be able to get into low sec. News flash CCP all the gates are camped. You should seriously consider putting lots of gate guns on the low sec gates that lead into high sec, or something that stops you from being tackled the second you break cloak. Losers camp them all day every day. Seriously, get in a cruiser and fly around the map a little, and try to get into low sec from high sec at a bunch of different locations, you'll see what I'm talking about. Also, if you want more people in low sec than put more money there, more incursions, more sites, better missions. It's kind of a no brainer. Honestly, from a lore point of view it would make sense that there be a lot of guns on the low sec => high sec gates and that these would be where more incursions occur.

I like a lot of the discussion concerning new player experience and retention. I suggest you have some more optional missions that teach the advanced aspects of pvp and relate more to what a new players role will be in pvp (tackling, lots of tackling) Make the missions challenging and also teach the mechanics of aggression and docking with regards to how they function in high/low/null sec. This will also help get people to leave high sec (they need a way to experience the aggression mechanics without throwing away their hard earned isk over and over.

A cool feature I'd love to see is some battle arena's. A place in high sec where frigates or cruisers could duel and participants or observers could wager. Make it low risk (maybe allow a payout for winner and loser to cover some of the cost of ships lost) More people in high sec could learn pvp and see how fun it is.

I like the ideas put forth about teaching new players skill plans, this is needed badly. Consider adding something like EFT and eve mon into the game and giving people a place to find solid advice (the forums are full of morons!)

Another random idea I had is how nice it would be if there was some kind of NPC shipping mechanic. So that all the piles of good stuff I got in null or low sec could get into high sec where it can actually be sold. It's really problematic for newer players to sell goods they accumulate in low/null sec (especially when you consider all the gate camps) It's hard just to get any ship through some of those gates, let alone a freighter that you want to use to get your stuff out. It should be slow as snail ****, (taking perhaps 2+ weeks for delivery) because anything less would put the hard working freight corps out of business (which would be really bad, they worked hard to create an industry from nothing) but many players simply can't afford their services and time isn't a huge factor.

As far as UI it would be nice to be able to lock certain things to the top of the overview, like gates for example. It gets unnecessarily difficult just to click on something you want to warp at, when there are 100's of ships constantly changing range, entering and leaving the field, and the things your trying to click on are bouncing all over the overview.

I'd like to add I only play this game for pvp. I have to grind a lot to support it, I don't enjoy grinding.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#223 - 2012-01-18 07:22:34 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:

Med clone costs are indeed getting a "bit" high when you gather more SP. Maybe introduce a medical insurance skill like the trade skills that cut down on the price for your med clone.

Med clones should just be removed from the game. There are currently two possible situations with regards to med clones:

a) You have enough ISK to afford to replace an increasingly expensive clone if/when you get podded and just don't worry about it; or

b) You don't have enough ISK to replace your clone, so you avoid any PVP situation where you might get podded.

So, I don't exactly see how this particular feature contributes to the player's fun or benefits the game, in general, in any possible way. It's not like you get rewarded for popping a pod without a bounty and clone losses do not show up on killmails. It seems like it just discourages older, poorer players from engaging in PVP and not much else.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#224 - 2012-01-18 07:24:26 UTC
So RnK want a 'WH mass stabilizer'...
Just goes to show how little they get WHs.

Hell, wasnt very hard to evict RnK from their WH.
All we had to do is warp a fleet around HS for a couple hours and they moved to C2 within a couple of weeks. Roll

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#225 - 2012-01-18 07:39:23 UTC
Retribution second mid slot is nice, but dear developers every assault frigs have 11 slots. New retribution will have 12 slots.
+1 slot over than other type AFs.

Devs, if changing a shiptype be smart and use logic. Remove a low or high slot from Retribution if give them a mid slot.
Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#226 - 2012-01-18 07:41:48 UTC
Cass Lie wrote:
Two step wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Comments:
- Please don't mess up WH space. Its one of the few bastions of actual small gang warfare and WH stabilizers would really mess with that.


I wasn't at the summit, but I have already yelled loudly at the folks that were there about how bad stabilizing wormholes would be. They would take away the main unique feature of w-space, and would only make the strong organizations in w-space stronger, at the expense of everyone else.


But on the other hand, wasn't it you on some podcast who said that some established alliances are virtually impregnable in their class 6s and it would take a huge sustained effort from big numbers to dislodge them? I kinda agree that allowing blobbing would take a lot away from wh magic, but the aforementioned virtual invulnerability also doesn't seem quite right.

The thing about living in an impregnable fortress is ... you're stuck living in an impregnable fortress. It's the cap ships that make the fortress, and they aren't/can't go anywhere (easily). To get the large numbers of caps means you need large numbers of pilots which saturates the WH, reducing income per-pilot. So there is already tradeoffs.

Any WH stabilizing is likely to be exploited by the more powerful. The larger C6 WH alliances will use it to their advantage over smaller WH players, and null blobs can use it to roll the larger WH players.

Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#227 - 2012-01-18 07:48:38 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
Remove the CSM

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.

Xiode
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2012-01-18 08:13:54 UTC
My HAMdrake approves of this buff.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#229 - 2012-01-18 08:16:42 UTC
To: remove of learning implants:
Do not remove the learning implants. Because one of the PvP’er claims it would be too expensive to bring his clone in PvP, you follow this dumb argumentation?
“I am a PvP’er and can not achieve such an expensive implant; so no one other should also do!”
For a PvE’er it would be nonsense to use a clone with slave implants. You must remove this sort of implant too if you want to remove my learning implants.
There are much other expensive implants on the market. Every one with special capabilities. One more than other helpful for total other jobs. To remove all non PvP-implants would be dumb.

You should think about to implement further jump-clone possibilities before you remove established items.

“I have not skilled it- So nerf it!” or “Not useable for me- remove it!” This is not an argument; this is only a dumb claim to annoy other people for things that someone else can not use but also won’t permit other peoples to use it.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#230 - 2012-01-18 08:24:51 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:


THIS

PLEASE, DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT RESPECS! OR WE WILL LOOSE OUR RESPECT.

As the poster quoted stated - it will actually hurt new players, as vets could always respec to new stauff when its been introduced, while new players will always be behind. Where as i understand current system, when new stuff comes into play, both vets and new players are on equal tooting (more or less)


If such a system were to be implemented, there would likely be significant restrictions placed upon it, and would likely come at a steep price.
Plus, a vet respeccing into "new stauff" would be doing so at the expense of "old stauff"--he might not fly an interceptor as well, or be able to fly a capship, or any number of possibilities. Plus, in eve you can only be so good with a given ship and module set...newbies would be able to equal you with time.

Also: consider the bittervet who's tired of capital ships and wants to be able to fly those HACs he passed up years ago. A Respec would help player retention by enabling a fresher experience for them.

Then get out of that SC and train for that HAC...?!

You very well know that when these things were introduced that you can't dock them and would need an Alt to 'park' them if you wanted a tight grip on that machine.. LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2012-01-18 08:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Command Ships - I think bonuses for 2 types of warfare links would be too much.

At the moment there is an incentive for training fleet command skills because you want warfare link bonuses from both fleet and wing boosters, e.g. fleet booster is Vulture and wing booster is Claymore (too many squad boosters to get them all into command ships, so they just have Leadership V to pass on the bonuses).

If you can cherry-pick your 3 favorite links out of 6 without losing efficiency or just go off-grid and fit all 6 in a single command ship we will on the one hand see more fleets with all warfare link bonuses and on the other hand the incentive to train Fleet Command would be reduced (as the wing booster can handle all basic boosts alone).
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#232 - 2012-01-18 08:38:23 UTC
Dockable supercaps... I'd prefer not.
Security... need to be overseen and beefed up for sure.
Bots... start ban accounts pls.

and more.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Jadecougar
Doomheim
#233 - 2012-01-18 08:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadecougar
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
Two step wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Comments:
- Please don't mess up WH space. Its one of the few bastions of actual small gang warfare and WH stabilizers would really mess with that.


I wasn't at the summit, but I have already yelled loudly at the folks that were there about how bad stabilizing wormholes would be. They would take away the main unique feature of w-space, and would only make the strong organizations in w-space stronger, at the expense of everyone else.


But on the other hand, wasn't it you on some podcast who said that some established alliances are virtually impregnable in their class 6s and it would take a huge sustained effort from big numbers to dislodge them? I kinda agree that allowing blobbing would take a lot away from wh magic, but the aforementioned virtual invulnerability also doesn't seem quite right.

The thing about living in an impregnable fortress is ... you're stuck living in an impregnable fortress. It's the cap ships that make the fortress, and they aren't/can't go anywhere (easily). To get the large numbers of caps means you need large numbers of pilots which saturates the WH, reducing income per-pilot. So there is already tradeoffs.

Any WH stabilizing is likely to be exploited by the more powerful. The larger C6 WH alliances will use it to their advantage over smaller WH players, and null blobs can use it to roll the larger WH players.



This idea (amongst others) was discussed several times on Lost in Eve podcast and documented via the Wormhole Factory campaign that we started. While as an idea, this is intriguing, I agree wholeheartedly with what has been echoed here. The topic of stabilizers was one of the items where very few actually 'voted' for it, and for good reason.

The difficulty with this topic is that it really will allow large corps that much more of an advantage to wipe through its target by 'freezing' the wormhole long enough to get their big boys in long enough for some reasonably easy kills and expensive loot for their near no-efforts. However, looking at it from a logistics (=transport) point of view, think about this feature for good routes to high sec. Holding a wormhole or two open to provide an 'x' amount of more time and/or mass could be an interesting counter use which most wormhole corps would greatly benefit from, wouldn't they?

The trouble now is there are too many variables that are not answered that make this more of a danger/henderance to an ecosystem that is already functioning pretty well. We had discussions of ships that use these stabilizers working much in the way a cyno does or a carrier with a triage-like module to do it, making the ship therefore also vulnerable and susceptible to attack and thus allowing some kind of chance for a defending corp to disable the effect.

These all made for interesting discussions of course but as mentioned, the variables are too many at the moment and are prone to be used/abused/exploited by the big boys of the wormholes. The beauty of wormholes is the element of surprise and the small gang pvp that is so frequently experienced. It is a fantastic space that doesn't easily allow blob warfare to the null sec comparison and thus for many is a great place to be. I fear that these stabilizers (whilst being able to identify various uses for them) would actually break that and promote a more traditional blob warfare to the wormhole life...which would be bad imho.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#234 - 2012-01-18 08:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Command Ships - I think bonuses for 2 types of warfare links would be too much.

At the moment there is an incentive for training fleet command skills because you want warfare link bonuses from both fleet and wing boosters, e.g. fleet booster is Vulture and wing booster is Claymore (too many squad boosters to get them all into command ships, so they just have Leadership V to pass on the bonuses).

If you can cherry-pick your 3 favorite links out of 6 without losing efficiency or just go off-grid and fit all 6 in a single command ship we will on the one hand see more fleets with all warfare link bonuses and on the other hand the incentive to train Fleet Command would be reduced (as the wing booster can handle all basic boosts alone).

Wouldn't it be nice if the Gallente commandship could have a bonus to armor ganglinks?
The other commandships get a bonus of some sort to tanking and Gallente gets some lame ewar bonus ganglinks.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#235 - 2012-01-18 08:55:51 UTC
Very disappointing. I have to scrape very deep in all that to find anything good. Nos Buff I guess.

There's a lot that is bad, making it easier for big Null Alliances to attack WH space with Cap ships, treating FW as merely some testing ground for SoV mechanics, Treating NPC Nullsec as if it only matters what big sov holding alliances do there, praising Incursions, CSM warning CCP about Local Chat changes, like their wouldn't be just as big outrage at cloak detecting ships that the CSM endorsed, sounding weak on bots....

But there worst was the statement about War

Quote:
The broad scope of future iterations of the War system is to cater to people that want to do wars, as a profession, and it should cater to people that don’t want to do wars.


WTF is this? A War system that caters to people that don't want to be involved in Wars? If that's your goal CCP don't call them wars call them duels and e-sport events.
Liranan
H A V O C Industrial
Fraternity.
#236 - 2012-01-18 09:06:48 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
Remove the CSM


Everything is self serving nonsense.

Quote:
The CSM mentioned allowing Electronic Attack Ships to impact ewar-immune vessels as a possible fix.


Fit two or three ECCM's and counter ECM, also field 50 Titans and shoot the ECM boats first.

Only solution to Titans camping stations and obliterating fleets is to nerf their tracking so they can't track, even with 5 tracking mods.

Quote:
The CSM believes that destructible outposts would allow alliances to burn each other’s territory down without needing to occupy and inhabit that territory.


PL and the DRF would love that wouldn't they?

Quote:
The CSM noted that the most optimal alliance type in terms of income and power projection presently has no
sov at all; the so-called ‘Iceberg’ alliances which live in NPC stations, amass supercapitals, and hold high-value
moons for income.


Hai PL.

Quote:
The CSM noted that there is too much emphasis on moons particularly technetium, as a source of alliance income. The CSM proposed adding R32 Alchemy as a possible fix for the Technetium bottleneck.


Why nerf the DRF's income when you can dangle a carrot in front of everyone's noses? Those holding moons will simply lower their prices so everyone else is cut out. Job well done.

Change moon materials and nerf technetium!

http://www.youtube.com/user/zeitgeistmovie?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/23/Lio3n66bwOo This shit's got to go - Jacque Fresco

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2012-01-18 09:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Sizeof Void wrote:

And, ignoring the opening and middle games, in favor of the null sec "end game", is a bad strategy for CCP to follow, if their business goal is to attract new players.

that sort of thinking is fundamentally flawed and one of the prime reasons why so many people never seem to feel "ready" to make the move to 0.0.

You seem to forget that Goonswarm is one of the largest newbie-training organizations in EVE - they take complete newbies into what you call the "end-game" on day one and experience shows that this works great for everyone involved.

In some write-up of this summit (fhc, some blog?) it was mentioned that the CSM demonstrated the goon wiki and newbie guides to CCP (who were apparently quite impressed).

I would not be surprised if organizations like Goonswarm or TEST had a much better new player retention than the vast majority of high-sec corps that accept newbies.

Why? because they provide excellent resources for learning, classes (goons are quite literally the lords of PI) and coaching, because they can offer full pvp reimbursements and as many free frigates as you want, because they give newbies access to very lucrative income sources (compare looting/salvaging CAs and 0.0 PI to running lvl1 missions) and most importantly because the new players are a valued part of a large social community of players from their first day.

Of course it helps that there already is a lot of common ground and community spirit via the SA and reddit communities to build upon.

I have been in quite a few high-sec corps during my time in EVE and I have never seen anything that rivaled TEST in terms of newbie training, community and resources for learning about the game.
Maybe EVE Uni does, I don't know (but all their restrictions during war-time and the high fluctuation of members seems to be rather unfriendly for newbies; if newbies fly cheap ships that can be easily replaced by older players they should focus on getting blown up early and often, not on sitting docked inside station).
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-01-18 09:17:16 UTC
EVE veterans/loyalty program - I have received all kinds of hanger queen ships that never are used and other various items that are unique. They hardly get me to want to play the game more or anything like that. The only reward us veterans want is for you to listen to us and play the game yourself. Most of CCP should be classified as EVE veterans, but that title could probably be counted on one hand the number of you who have been playing for a long time. Sad

The PLEX - This is a tough subject. I was originally behind PLEX 100% due to it allowing players who could not afford the subscription and option to still play the game. Now PLEX is on the verge of breaking the 500 million ISK mark due to players gaming the market, Aurum garbage and bots riding the free game subscription. The end result is players who could only stay subscribed via PLEX are forced to quit the game. Are you OK with this outcome?

Security - I can understand not wanting to divulge the methods you use to find and catch bots/RMTers, but if you can't show us a body; how do we know there really was someone killed? You have to understand the humans that play this game ******* hate bots and RMTers. We NEED to see bodies or else your efforts will become more and more nonexistent to us. Also you need to do more. The entire game is riddled with bots! Some so obvious that it is a gigantic slap in the face when we report the same bot over and over and over and over only to keep seeing them log in everyday.

Crucible wrapup -

Doing any kind of skill respec outside of removing a ship completely and giving the related skills back is a massive mistake. How are you to determine who qualifies? I owned a Nyx myself, but have sold it. Do I get to respec all my drone skills to other skills??

Do not even consider allowing any super capital to dock. That would compound the problem 100 fold. You would have hordes of players with single accounts buying one, more players who would not due to the current non-docking situation and like mentioned before; unless docking games on steroids like none we have ever seen before.

A spool up timer sounds good at first, but only delays the current issue of ultra blob hot drops. You need to have the cyno only allow a certain amount of mass to jump through based on a multiplication of the mass of the ship opening the cyno. A frigate opening a single cyno and an armada of capitals and support coming through is so stupid. Even if it is delayed by 60 seconds. Wormhole mechanics on how they work is a good example of having players make strategic decisions and risk management. I would disallow capital ships from fitting a cyno too to keep any kind of leap frog cyno chain from happening. With a set timer, you would lose out on potential quality fights and fun. The point is, the ship opening the cyno should be the key to what can come through and adding some investment into the cyno ship. Not some crap 5 day old alt that risks nothing, but allowed billions upon billions to enter a system in one go.

Adding the ability for supers to tackle other supers is bad. Like already mentioned; you completely remove the need for hictors and dictors. You need to understand that if 100 people are available for an op, 100 people are coming. By you taking a sub capital off the field because it is no longer needed, you encourage that pilot to fly something else -- most likely another capital ship. You need to figure out a way where the most optimal fleet has way more sub capitals to support the capitals. The super carrier and titan still needs a bit of a nerf. All titans should always have the siege pently of tracking and explosion velocity dreads recieve while in siege mode. Super carriers still have high slots easily fight of tackle with smartbombs and neuts while sacraficing little damage to gain that. A good solution is to change the fighter/fighter bomber per level from 3 to 1 and give it a bonus to field 3 fighters/fighter bombers per drone control unit fit. If they still choose to fit anti tackle in the high slots they are giving up a lot of damage, if they go with more damage then they make themselves more susceptible to tackle. Also do not allow refits on the fly if they are being aggressed by players.
Liranan
H A V O C Industrial
Fraternity.
#239 - 2012-01-18 09:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Liranan
Quote:
The CSM spoke harshly of how slippery modern supercap fights are, and how rarely supercapitals are destroyed due to a
lack of siege mechanic or sufficient tackling


Oh, the lies we tell.

It couldn't be because of the dozens of Titans and MS the tech moon holders can field could it?

Quote:
The CSM noted that if outposts are going to be destructible, it is important for CCP to balance NPC nullsec
stations as well.


Yes, so only the mega blob alliances can hold space.

Want space? Rent it from the uber alliances, giving them more money to RMT, as if their trillions from moon income isn't enough.

This CSM is absolutely terrible. Self serving fools, remove them.

I've just seen which fool's come up with the 0.0 idea's:
Quote:
Null sec – stations, sov, resources The Mittani


His moons thank CCP for giving him the time to come up with absolute crap and finally destroying 0.0. I assume he's also going for a job at CCP, like his predecessor Darius Johnson.

http://www.youtube.com/user/zeitgeistmovie?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/23/Lio3n66bwOo This shit's got to go - Jacque Fresco

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2012-01-18 09:28:18 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:


If you can cherry-pick your 3 favorite links out of 6 without losing efficiency or just go off-grid and fit all 6 in a single command ship we will on the one hand see more fleets with all warfare link bonuses and on the other hand the incentive to train Fleet Command would be reduced (as the wing booster can handle all basic boosts alone).


I would love to make command bonuses work only on-grid


Chribba wrote:
Dockable supercaps... I'd prefer not.


I imagine You would say that :)