Market Discussions

Basically nobody. Audits are a failed concept.

Audits provide no security and, in truth, provide little in the way of actual confirmation. Most often Auditors are used, most times unwittingly, to help provide a smokescreen to a scam. While there are many who have been legitimate when audited there are many many more who have not.

Of course if you want to discuss why you need an audit... eve mail me.
Perhaps you do, perhaps you don't.

Given the large number of audited offerings during the last years I am sure you have some data to back up this claim.

... which is more or less what most vanilla RL audits do. They certify the given numbers match as they should and that some due diligence was performed, that's it.

EvE audits (depending on auditor taste) do show the investee numbers, that he actually can do what he claims (i.e. an invention bond assumes ability of invention capable alts) and that he's not an evident scammer (i.e. no strange character sales / bad looking past posting and so on).




True, and they are not meant to. They provide information, which is an "edge" the investors would not have otherwise.




The huge majority of audits done in the last *years* were made by me. How many turned up being scams vs those that did not?

Now compare that vs how many un-audited investments found investors, started and revealed to be a scam.

We live in a modern, selfish, malignant society that slowly drifts towards EvE "gameplay".

Cult of self, even canonicalized by some modern philosophers but already present since the famous "live for today" statements were made. Social disgregation and bipolarization. Mercification of body and mind.

Have vs haves not, where the haves feel a pompous self entitlement about how they were smarter and better (usually it's their father who worked his ass so they can drive a Ferrari today...).

Maybe one day this dark age of human decadence will end, and then we'll go back to being simpler, more sociable and responsible people.

Till that date, we'll have to read the epics, the collective idealistic tales teaching us how we could be better than raw pieces of nasty meat. "That date" is a far date.

Unless you are mentioned by name, no need to get your panties in a twist.

My opinion is based upon a decade of experience in Eve (which you well know) as well as having been a pioneer in the auditing business. Furthermore, my statement was a broad generalization recognizing the integrity that has been found or not found as it were.

In essence, retract the claws.
I'm not a scratching post.

It's a broken institution alongside the uncollateralized public lending that spawned it.

The incentives and mechanics for a system of public lending similar to that seen in the modern world do not exist in Eve. The few people who have proven "trustworthy" over the years have elected to transfer a personal moral system into Eve. I am in no way condemning these people, as we all are free to incorporate alternate versions of our real life moral system into a game in our pursuit of what we consider entertaining gameplay (barring eula violations).

However, the corollary of that freedom is the option to operate under more open and even "piratical" moral systems in pursuit of entertaining gameplay. There is very little available in terms of game mechanics that allow you to differentiate beforehand someone who will honor a public loan from someone who will not. Audits as "fact-checks" serve to create a much higher cost insofar as creating a deception, and in those terms they were very successful, but the cost of performing audits was never able to be rationalized with the potential benefits of public lending.

The height of successful public lending and audits was at its foundation the product of VV's generosity in terms of his time and effort. The period where he performed audits was the only one where people who had no intention to scam in the end were differentiated reasonably successfully from those who were intending to scam.

Before VV and the era of large bond scams, everything was based on a "reputation" system formed by an insular and ultimately corrupt and/or incompetent "MD Elite". After the failure of this system and VV unwillingness to continue to "prop up" the institution of public lending, it has collapsed to its current near- totally defunct state; quite frankly, where it belongs.

I am sort of agreeing and disagreeing on some of this and I am sure I won't be able to express what I want to say well enough.



Like everything in EvE, it's as good or as broken as you want it to be. Sandbox and stuff.
Not sure uncollateralized public lending spawned it, I am more of the thought that *failing* uncollateralized public lending spawned it. Edit: and role play, i am sure that both the first investors and first auditors felt part of a grand finance game.




Yeah I copy and pasted my personal moral system into EvE. The fun thing is, in RL I have to make some small compromises and I am not always up to it (very hard to be "perfect" => in my subjective definition of course!) while in EvE it's easy and basically I love my conduit in EvE much more than myself in RL.

I see my personal EvE sandbox as "what I'd like to be in RL if I could".




Information has a cost, the stupidest fact-check will immediately weed off the number of those who were openly lying about their ability to even do what they say and those who (some times inconsciously) are just unable to do what they promise. I.e. a profit history of 3% flags someone promising 7% as a liar or illusional guy.

Then the mind game comes. Most low level delinquents would have no problem laughing in face to an old woman, but if you slam them in a jail, light in face and with 1 policeman sternly shouting questions at them they might lose their gall.

Certainly this does not cover every case and it can be out-smarted, doctored, whatever. But this is also something we have to deal in RL.

The catch is, the whole cards castle crumbles down if the "policeman" is himself corrupt.
And there, like in too many facts of life, all you can do is to close your eyes and perform a leap of faith.

I think the most math friendly guys could even write down a formula comparing the statistics between investments gone bad because of no audit vs the inherent risk of having a corrupt auditor building up his own agenda.
It's certainly much, much more "cost effective" for an investor to build up "rep" for some months than for an auditor spending several years just to get trusted enough. In the end blowing a 6 months investor "face" is EvE. Blowing a 3-4 years auditor "face" is much more seppuku alike. Can't really "recycle on the next alt" on something taking years to do so.




Agree on the MD Elite. Few were corrupt, most were just cogs in their plans but the elite painting did the camouflage job.

About the defunct state, I am not sure it "belongs" being there, but it has to be there.

Many factors converge to make it a very low demand profession. Niche profession in a niche forum about a niche activity (finance) of a niche feature (market) of a game dedicated to SCI FI ships pew pew.

Furthermore the investees worth it mostly quit or are now completely self reliant, while the investors "pro enough" to have an use of audits mostly quit or are now completely self reliant.

In the end auditing is a market. Too little demand and volume => too little revenue => no audits.

VV - I still have a couple of bil in audit fund cash. If you're getting back into auditing I can just transfer it to you to offset against any newbie audits you might do.

Darth Tickles - o/

RAW

It sounds interesting, is there any opportunity to learn, how to be an auditor.
I am interested in being one.

I have noe reputation, only financial skills, from RL
Best regards