Missions & Complexes

Wormholes came out with the addition of T3 ships, providing a source of sleeper components which went towards production of said ships; the only ISK faucet there was the blue poo. But you have to salvage it, which takes time, and in w-space, time = chance of dying.

So, in order for everyone to fly around in their T3's you require people who go risk their necks to kill sleepers and salvage them, drag the stuff to market past the suiide gankers, and sell them. Then other people kick into gear, making the hulls and subsystems, components, blah blah.

By contrast, Incursions are stupidly designed and farmable. If I could leave a sleeper frigate alive, and chain wormhole sites for the BS, believe me I would. If I could avoid killing the mother sleeper so the site would immediately respawn, I would. If i could get my ISK immediately, without a single bit of salvaging needed, I would love that.

Also, incursions provide little in the way of tangible flow-on benefits to the economy of New Eden. Some even-number implants which are so rare as to be worthless, because people have no need to cash the LP's in for them to make the ISK neccessary to support their accounts. They do provide named capital modules, but really, the number of named ion siege cannons floating around is sod all, because dreads are expenses not pimp ships.

This argument is separate to the ISK/hr issue, which is besides the point. Incursions are barely tied in with the general EVE economy in any fashion.

There's nothing wrong with group PVE content in hisec. I also don't neccessarily agree mining is inherently unprofitable; steps have been made to basically address that with item drop rates and refine rates and twaeks to drone poo. Sure you won't make 100M/hr mining veldspar but should you? What then would be the advantage to moving to nullsec, lowsec (ha!) or wormhole space to up your risk for equal isk?

However, in my opinion, the Incursions are poorly designed.

The way the rats just warp off when the bjective is destroyed is the prime example. In every mission where there is a scram, you have to destroy the scam even if you want to blitz the mission. Not so with Incursions, you can just trigger the Deltoles, alpha them, and move on. This is simply bad mission design.

Secondly, the farming aspect of Incursions is a bit rich.

There's ways to reduce the nett ISK/hr of a safe hisec group PVE pursuit without adjusting the raw ISK per site. I think there must be something to tie the rewards more in with in-game materiel, such as tags which need to be collected to gain the rewards (and therefore involve freelance salvagers in the equation). This will reduce the ability to churn sites somewhat.

The LP store for CONCORD should be expanded to various items, such as the Echelon, Primae, COSMOS item BPCs perhaps, and so on and so forth. Whatever. LP's should become a greater proportion of the wealth generation aspect of the whole reward structure, to make people gaining ISK from incursions interact more strongly with the EVE economy aside from simply buying the faction items generated in nullsec from faction and officer drops. Oh, and sometimes the odd POCO BPC.

do you have any numbers or anything to back this up?

IMHO

1) Remove the farmability make the sites work just like the WH sites [including capital escalation in low and Null] More ships hit even harder and limited cap slots in fleet.
basically pays more but much harder to finish.

2) Make the LP be generated by some kind of Poo tags that you have to loot and hand in in the concord station [these are unique like tag from incursion of xxx system on yyyy date]

3) When you kill the mother ship the Incursion should not stop instantly maybe 24 hours and then you need to kill another reinforcment mothership to conclude incursion.

4) As someone suggested add stuff like COSMOS items to the LP store

5) And finally since you get some LP from all the wrecks the fleet that kills the mothership gets 2 times the LP pertag for the 24 hours and 3 times if they are the same group that kills the mothership for second time.

Something like this maybe could still keep it profitable but would fix some of the abuse.

Why would anyone do that? Why would anyone end the encounter prematurely and force himself to much less isk? EVE is so full of meta and minmaxing... why would anyone chose to get less ISK than they could? Even if griefing fleet is on way to kill the mom; you will still get more isk by just continuing to blitz VGs while they do their thing. CCP has fraked up ballance by making anything other than VGs pointless. But CCP was the ones who designed it so that site can stay open for long; while giving lowsec and 00 people chance to end it rather soon and restore cyno functionality and normal rats in belts and whatever.

Makes very much sense.

Group content as an idea is excellent, implementation needs fine-tuning. Salvage is a good idea.

I think increased Concord response time would make sense in lore-context. If they need capsuleer help in beating the Sansha, they should be appropriately weak in Incursion systems/sites.

I meant longer time from violation to CONCORD reaction.

I don't mean it as a some important balancing act, brought it up as something that strikes me as pretty clumsy and stupid. And in this case altering the lore would mean changing quite a bit of the Incursions backstory.

Having a slow CONCORD for a limited time during an Incursion would also add to the sense of chaos during an emergency situation, which currently is pretty mild.

The most annoying thing about a Sansha-controlled system is the extra chat window.

Exactly the reason why some "incursions disrupting corps" want to "do that" and probably the reason why CCP may decide to close that loop hole.

When I did L4 I could also get 1 x 8M tick doing Buzzkill but using a Maelstrom not a Vargur. I could also make > 7k LP or 13k LP in low sec, it's not something exclusive of you or me.

Now, let's see a full sample across those 10 hours, where you also get missions to skip, the random courier crap, the Duo of Death and some drone missions.

Do you still get 9M ticks like clockwork?

Do you still need just 1 account or you use multiple, to skip the bad L4 missions (but then profit is split over N accounts).


Also, unrelated to the above, do you know that you just said on the most hostile PvP game forums what ship you fly, how pimp it is, the fact you are posting on the missioning character AND exactly where you mission?

OMG ty for telling me fast fast i must get to Jita and sell my pimped ship pls pls pls don’t gang me until am safe in the station i will pay any ransom you want !
To answer you i don’t know what it will be in 10h cos doing missions for 10h will probably make me mentaly seek for real, 1h get me realy bored.
Grinding was never my kind of think i may do it litle but most time i will can flip mission runers gank ppl and stuff like that i enjoy pvp and never cryed about losing ship when you buy ship is mean to go boom at some point that probably the reason i some time engage dumb gangs in pvp i don’t care.
To gank my vargur is something that will be realy hard simply becose am almost never in that ship whith 5 JC i mostly spend my time all over the space ‘scanning WH lately).
As for the missions you forget to count LP whith count as ISK and you get a lot more that you do in incursions.
As for some mission you mention I don’t run, the score, masiff attack and I forgot the name of another. The most time is spend in angel extravaganza whith the bonus room but that one give you a lot in salvage and bounty so it may match 15 mill per 10 min.
The 14 mill is not exceptional as you seem to think is the first mission I accepted just to post facts to ignorant ppl I can do another one or chain 3 if you like I don’t belive the money will change (don’t forget the salvage is still in the cargo did not sell it add that to the 14mill).
I don’t own usabol alts am total ‘solo’ dude no boosters no falcons no RR one guy one gun, if you took 5 min you will realyse this is all in one character trading, pvp, mission what ever. The alts I own are simple traders one in gall one in minni trade hubs they cant even fly frigate.

... and this devalues T1 ships to "uncompetitive" and devalues T2 and faction ships into "mainstream, must PvP with it".

Of course the personal benefit is immediate, while in the long term the whole game suffers of mudflation (expecially check the last chapter).