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What to do about a couple of stealth bombers camping a gate in 0.0?

Author
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-17 17:28:34 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Rifters with microwarpdrives? You nullsec folks have strange ways and I don't understand them.

It's a newbee tackle fit, meant for brand new players to get involved in fleet engagements.

We have newbie tacklers in highsec too. It's just they have disruptors and afterburners instead of MWDs and scrams.

I can understand the Disruptor, but why the Afterburner?

So you don't die instantly when you inevitably get scrammed by another frigate. It actually dosen't matter very much for tackle, it's just a holdover from general purpose frigate fits that are invariably scram+ab.

Also you don't want to tackle a drake in a MWD fit frig.

Ah.

Our outlook towards tackling is a bit different, then.

So long as the Rifter (effectively being used as a cheap Interceptor) gets the tackle and maintains it long enough for some other ship to also get the tackle, then the RIfter has done its job. We do not expect Rifters to return from fleet engagements, and we have the luxury of numbers on our side which guarantees that we'll have a few Rifters in each fleet. That the Rifter getting the tackle may and probably will die, if not in that engagement then in another during that battle, is taken for granted and not viewed as a loss from our perspective. For this reason we do not devote resources to providing traditional, more effective fits, such as a 400mm plate or a Medium Shield Extender; instead, we focus entirely on speed and capacitor stability so that the Rifter can burn however far is needed to get to the target and run the tackle gear.

On the other hand, we do provide our newbee tacklers with some basic instruction along the lines of "turn off the MWD once you're near enough to tackle," though we do often see pairs of "Hero Rifters" burn straight at a target with the MicroWarpdrive overheated, each just one shot away from being blown up by their intended target. It is a boost to morale every time a "Hero Rifter" dies in this fashion, especially if in so doing a tackle is gained and/or a warp-in for the fleet is gained in return for the loss of the Rifter. Why, just yesterday I burned straight at a Cynabal, and later in a different Rifter at a group of Tengus, and died prior to landing a shot; but, in both cases my previous position or my wreck served as a warp-in for other people to get the tackle and kill the targets.

My apologies for all those words.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-01-17 19:50:18 UTC
Have you considered dropping supercapitals or calling the swarm on their asses?

Dodixie > Hek

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-17 20:01:26 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Have you considered dropping supercapitals or calling the swarm on their asses?

I do usually prefer to do stuff with a group.

As it happened, I disengaged.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-01-17 23:49:32 UTC
MWDs are standard in null sec because of bubbles. Who the **** would use afterburners when that basically means you may have to slowboat back 90km to a gate? Also an MWD helps with getting out of a bubble camp.
eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#45 - 2012-01-19 07:29:02 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hi,

I was sitting on the Torrinos gate in EC-P8R today in my newbee tackle Rifter, effectively camping it all by myself. Every so often a couple of stealth bombers would uncloak and shoot bombs or torpedoes at my Rifter, but they would do minimal damage; however, they would always manage to cloak again or warp away from me before I could get in range to get a point, even when I was burning right at them with my MicroWarpdrive. I know that some people have killed bombers in Rifters, within my own alliance, and I am flying one that has two nanofibers in the low slots so I am going fairly fast; but, they manage to get away every time. Is this just a question of luck and timing, or is there something I can do to fix my fit or my tactic?

For comparison, I am orbiting the gate at 2,500 with my MicroWarpdrive off until I see one of them uncloak on my overview and then burning straight at them with an overheaded MicroWarpdrive. My fit is below:

Fleet Rifter
High
3x 200mm AutoCannons (EMP S or other close-range ammo)
1x Salvager I
Medium
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier I
Warp Scrambler I
Low
1x Capacitor Power Relay I
2x Nanofiber Internal Structure I

I am not looking for ~elite PVP~ solutions, pretty much anything that requires me to upgrade from meta-0 tech-1 modules is not a solution that I really want to endorse. I was thinking about maybe swapping the stasis webifier or the warp scrambler for a warp disruptor so that I can get the long-range point, though that has trade-offs both in capacitor stability and in potentially losing the tackle if he has a MicroWarpdrive and/or a Warp Core Stabilizer fit to his stealth bomber.



don't fly uncloaked ships in null-sec.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-01-19 10:36:15 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Our outlook towards tackling is a bit different, then.

So long as the Rifter (effectively being used as a cheap Interceptor) gets the tackle and maintains it long enough for some other ship to also get the tackle, then the RIfter has done its job. We do not expect Rifters to return from fleet engagements, and we have the luxury of numbers on our side which guarantees that we'll have a few Rifters in each fleet. That the Rifter getting the tackle may and probably will die, if not in that engagement then in another during that battle, is taken for granted and not viewed as a loss from our perspective. For this reason we do not devote resources to providing traditional, more effective fits, such as a 400mm plate or a Medium Shield Extender; instead, we focus entirely on speed and capacitor stability so that the Rifter can burn however far is needed to get to the target and run the tackle gear.

On the other hand, we do provide our newbee tacklers with some basic instruction along the lines of "turn off the MWD once you're near enough to tackle," though we do often see pairs of "Hero Rifters" burn straight at a target with the MicroWarpdrive overheated, each just one shot away from being blown up by their intended target. It is a boost to morale every time a "Hero Rifter" dies in this fashion, especially if in so doing a tackle is gained and/or a warp-in for the fleet is gained in return for the loss of the Rifter. Why, just yesterday I burned straight at a Cynabal, and later in a different Rifter at a group of Tengus, and died prior to landing a shot; but, in both cases my previous position or my wreck served as a warp-in for other people to get the tackle and kill the targets.

My apologies for all those words.


Only cowards and weaklings suicide frigs for warpins. Real men do that in pods, grow a pair.
eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#47 - 2012-01-26 19:29:49 UTC
Killstealing wrote:
MWDs are standard in null sec because of bubbles. Who the **** would use afterburners when that basically means you may have to slowboat back 90km to a gate? Also an MWD helps with getting out of a bubble camp.


in my experience MWD's will get you killed more often in null-sec (from a covert-fleet standpoint). also the CPU required is inhibitive
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-26 19:38:41 UTC
eatsbabies cienfuegos wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hi,

I was sitting on the Torrinos gate in EC-P8R today in my newbee tackle Rifter, effectively camping it all by myself. Every so often a couple of stealth bombers would uncloak and shoot bombs or torpedoes at my Rifter, but they would do minimal damage; however, they would always manage to cloak again or warp away from me before I could get in range to get a point, even when I was burning right at them with my MicroWarpdrive. I know that some people have killed bombers in Rifters, within my own alliance, and I am flying one that has two nanofibers in the low slots so I am going fairly fast; but, they manage to get away every time. Is this just a question of luck and timing, or is there something I can do to fix my fit or my tactic?

For comparison, I am orbiting the gate at 2,500 with my MicroWarpdrive off until I see one of them uncloak on my overview and then burning straight at them with an overheaded MicroWarpdrive. My fit is below:

Fleet Rifter
High
3x 200mm AutoCannons (EMP S or other close-range ammo)
1x Salvager I
Medium
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier I
Warp Scrambler I
Low
1x Capacitor Power Relay I
2x Nanofiber Internal Structure I

I am not looking for ~elite PVP~ solutions, pretty much anything that requires me to upgrade from meta-0 tech-1 modules is not a solution that I really want to endorse. I was thinking about maybe swapping the stasis webifier or the warp scrambler for a warp disruptor so that I can get the long-range point, though that has trade-offs both in capacitor stability and in potentially losing the tackle if he has a MicroWarpdrive and/or a Warp Core Stabilizer fit to his stealth bomber.



don't fly uncloaked ships in null-sec.

Why? I live in nullsec and it's not feasible for every ship to have a cloak. Especially not most combat ships.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-26 19:41:26 UTC
eatsbabies cienfuegos wrote:
Killstealing wrote:
MWDs are standard in null sec because of bubbles. Who the **** would use afterburners when that basically means you may have to slowboat back 90km to a gate? Also an MWD helps with getting out of a bubble camp.


in my experience MWD's will get you killed more often in null-sec (from a covert-fleet standpoint). also the CPU required is inhibitive

Would you mind explaining exactly what your experience constitutes? With respect, I have never heard of your Alliance and I question whether you speak from the perspective of someone who routinely lives in and fights in nullsec or from the perspective of someone who occasionally travels through nullsec with the intention of either avoiding combat or engaging only in very specific activities. If you are the latter, then, again with all due respect, your opinion and your experience is a little bit irrelevant to the points that are being discussed in this thread.

I just wanted advice on how to make a Rifter catch a competent stealth bomber.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

ChYph3r
A Murder Of Crows.
Homicidal Tendencies.
#50 - 2012-01-26 22:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ChYph3r
sounds like to me that you have won eve in your pubbie rifter and the bombers lost. so please pass go and collect your $200 dollars.

and when in EC-P8R don't forget to "Get the pod"!!

Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r  on Twitter

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-26 23:43:23 UTC
I don't think you are using the word "pubbie" correctly, forums user ChYph3r.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#52 - 2012-01-29 07:41:46 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
eatsbabies cienfuegos wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hi,

I was sitting on the Torrinos gate in EC-P8R today in my newbee tackle Rifter, effectively camping it all by myself. Every so often a couple of stealth bombers would uncloak and shoot bombs or torpedoes at my Rifter, but they would do minimal damage; however, they would always manage to cloak again or warp away from me before I could get in range to get a point, even when I was burning right at them with my MicroWarpdrive. I know that some people have killed bombers in Rifters, within my own alliance, and I am flying one that has two nanofibers in the low slots so I am going fairly fast; but, they manage to get away every time. Is this just a question of luck and timing, or is there something I can do to fix my fit or my tactic?

For comparison, I am orbiting the gate at 2,500 with my MicroWarpdrive off until I see one of them uncloak on my overview and then burning straight at them with an overheaded MicroWarpdrive. My fit is below:

Fleet Rifter
High
3x 200mm AutoCannons (EMP S or other close-range ammo)
1x Salvager I
Medium
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier I
Warp Scrambler I
Low
1x Capacitor Power Relay I
2x Nanofiber Internal Structure I

I am not looking for ~elite PVP~ solutions, pretty much anything that requires me to upgrade from meta-0 tech-1 modules is not a solution that I really want to endorse. I was thinking about maybe swapping the stasis webifier or the warp scrambler for a warp disruptor so that I can get the long-range point, though that has trade-offs both in capacitor stability and in potentially losing the tackle if he has a MicroWarpdrive and/or a Warp Core Stabilizer fit to his stealth bomber.



don't fly uncloaked ships in null-sec.

Why? I live in nullsec and it's not feasible for every ship to have a cloak. Especially not most combat ships.


because you're flying against people who have more information than you do. people who can choose their opportunities, know what your fleet's composition is, and offer very little info as to their own.

null-sec is my only friend.
eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#53 - 2012-01-29 07:55:19 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
eatsbabies cienfuegos wrote:
Killstealing wrote:
MWDs are standard in null sec because of bubbles. Who the **** would use afterburners when that basically means you may have to slowboat back 90km to a gate? Also an MWD helps with getting out of a bubble camp.


in my experience MWD's will get you killed more often in null-sec (from a covert-fleet standpoint). also the CPU required is inhibitive

Would you mind explaining exactly what your experience constitutes? With respect, I have never heard of your Alliance and I question whether you speak from the perspective of someone who routinely lives in and fights in nullsec or from the perspective of someone who occasionally travels through nullsec with the intention of either avoiding combat or engaging only in very specific activities. If you are the latter, then, again with all due respect, your opinion and your experience is a little bit irrelevant to the points that are being discussed in this thread.

I just wanted advice on how to make a Rifter catch a competent stealth bomber.


i'm a total noob. if you need to check my stats they're readily available. i am, however a console gamer, and i've kind of decided that null-sec is a little soft. in fact, it's really soft.

my experience with MWD's is fairly limited, but if you're not flying a ship with a neg-bonus to the sig radius, it's a risky endeavor. and the percentage of your CPU used up by a MWD is often restricting.

we are nomadic. we've been fighting and dying in null-sec since month 2, and it's been a blast.

the reason you couldn't get us locked and disrupted is because you're targeting range had been cut severely. if you leave your tactical display open, you'll be able to recognize this earlier, and also the futility of giving chase.

i really don't know what the solution would be. i mean, even if you can target to 100, we're in complete safety.



Rhealee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2012-01-29 10:16:13 UTC
If it was my rifter i would throw a 30km faction point overloaded to 36km. Then just to be a total douche get one of my buddies to hide out in local with a claymore. That would give me significantly faster speeds locking time and tackle range.

Gotta show those pesky bombers whose boss. Maybe you'll get lucky and kill officer fit bomber loaded with 600m worth bpos like me. But not everybody flies bombers like solar fleet.

Also sit still dont orbit. It gives u faster align time to them, and its easier for them to bomb you, so higher chance of them decloaking on you.

Good luck :)
NaturalBeast
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-01-30 04:02:06 UTC
This has to be said. Very refreshing thread. Subscribed.


Clementina
University of Caille
#56 - 2012-01-30 07:51:23 UTC
I don't speak Minmatar very fluently, I do speak Caldari, and this is what I was able to come up with.

Kestral, for the work.
High-slots
4x Standard Missile Launcher I's
Mid-slots
1x Microwarpdrive I
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Target Painter
Low-slots
1x Micro Auxiliary Power Core
1x Overdrive Injector System I

Some comment, I know you requested a full tech 1 loadout, however the range benefit of the tech 2 warp disruptor is to hard to ignore. You can tackle from 28.8 kilometers, which will help greatly when attempting to engage your enemy. Also the faction ammo packs more damage, has no extra skill requirements, and is not even that much more expensive if you don't fill your entire cargohold with missiles.
Also what is your position on rigs? I have a suggestion but I'm assuming that you are ignoring them for now since even the cheap ones will be as expensive than a full tech 1 frigate.
BrokenBC
no tax's are us
#57 - 2012-01-30 16:33:16 UTC
F*ck the hero rifter use an insta cain.You can find the fit in the wiki.You will lock and kill them before they can do anything.Nothing pops a bomber like the insta cain.
eatsbabies cienfuegos
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#58 - 2012-02-03 10:36:43 UTC
BrokenBC wrote:
F*ck the hero rifter use an insta cain.You can find the fit in the wiki.You will lock and kill them before they can do anything.Nothing pops a bomber like the insta cain.



insta-lock canes was an interesting situation when we ran into it, but if you decloak and lock at 50, with two rsd's he's just traded all his tank for nothing. we love insta-lock canes now :)

trade your tank for gank.
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-02-04 07:27:58 UTC
Have an Arazu sitting nearby

When u play rock paper scissors, use your left hand to throw down the scissors, and use the other hand to punch your opponent in the face...
YesI'mWatching
Cool4Cats
#60 - 2012-02-04 21:14:46 UTC
almost any shield frig with an afterburner and a scram can fk up a bomber or two, if they dont warp straight after bombing and use torps you just lock them and charge. my personal fovorite is a MSE vigil