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CCP Kill AFKING-Summer Expansion 2012 Campaign
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#281 - 2012-01-15 11:51:31 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
met worst wrote:
The reality is that 90% of alliance ratters can't organise a revenge BBQ when confronted with said tactic let alone mount a fast enough response to stop the kill in the first place.

But this is NOT the issue. It's the threat of it when he's in bed. No counter UNTIL he pops up and WHEN that happens is unknown - possibly for days.



An "alliance" which goes to 0.0 with a "sacrifical lamb" attitude for their members is as worth as an industry hi sec "alliance" that explodes the instant someone war decs it.

Why in hell are you playing THE harsh PvP game, in THE harshest PvP zones, with an afk hi sec Mack miner attitude to begin with?


What's different in this thread than any thread created by a random hi sec ice miner with deadspace shield booster who had someone coming to pop them?

It seems the same attitude: "I just want to mine / rat in peace, leave me be".

That's fine, but EvE is a game of consequences, of broken sand castles, of nasty guys.
You got to accept EvE is EvE in the end.





met worst wrote:

An AFK cloaker is NOT active but has exactly the same effect as though he is. It's a no-risk, no-counter tactic to deny hundreds of players their space - often for days at a time. And you CANNOT stop it


Imagine if something prevented AFK cloaking...

...



...



... and people in corps like DR who have/had 24/7 coverage just take turns at logging on cloakers in your system, i.e. 6 guys staying non AFK taking turns for 4 hours a day?


What other thread would we see? Nerf non AFK cloaking?


EvE players are not stupid, they DO circumvent silly obstacles like that.




Learn to play EVE then.
If they take turns, they either jump thru gates to come to the system or log off and on.Both tactics leave them whith a few secs vulnarable.Its so tasty to kill a logged off dude in his safe spot.Twisted



I learned EvE enough not to create dumb whiny threads like this one.

Ah, they have yet to get me when I log off.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#282 - 2012-01-15 11:52:21 UTC
Ah, the delicious tears of botters who come back from work to find their "invulnerable" tengu has been killed. Smile

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
AFK Master
Doomheim
#283 - 2012-01-15 12:37:12 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Cloaking is fine and balanced. AFKing in the terms of this argument, is only viable due to local. If a package of changes were made to remove locals instant intel, then maybe a change to cloaking could be considered in that package. Any changes to cloaking, should also take WH space into account.

But as it remains AFKing is a perfectly viable tactic, that requires the same effort as gaining intel from local. The difference is, the effects of psychological warfare are not a guarantee, unlike locals instant intel.
Not empty quoting.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#284 - 2012-01-15 13:00:52 UTC
They will fix this by removing local.
Not to worry. Big smile
Valei Khurelem
#285 - 2012-01-15 14:36:38 UTC
Yet another crybaby whining about a player using what little they have to avoid fights.

Tried using probes?

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#286 - 2012-01-15 14:54:22 UTC
met worst wrote:
cpu939 wrote:
i have to agree with alot of people here afk is not a problem unless your running a bot.

however cloaking is, if your in space and i'm willing to hunt you down using probes, scaners ect ect i should be able to find you and kill you after all eve is a pvp game. your in space you risk dieing at any time

cloaking should make the above harder and need skills(books and probing skills) not just the stupid probes we have now, more like it was in 07 where you had to work it down to find your target.

Dude. They don't need probes to find you and can camp a system all day - denying it's resources - and not even be there.

It ain't about PvP.

Put simply, real men don't need cloaks.

They do not deny resources. You deny yourself the resources.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#287 - 2012-01-15 14:55:04 UTC
met worst wrote:
Andski wrote:
oh man i love threads like these, always full of dumb ideas

Versus a Goon who can't think for themselves and need Mittens to do it for them?

Hence. Existence of Goons is pretty well guaranteed as long as under-mummy's-skirt teenagers exist.

The average goon is actually a 20-something man child. Cool

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#288 - 2012-01-15 14:55:43 UTC
met worst wrote:
Andski wrote:
cpu939 wrote:
Andski wrote:
oh man i love threads like these, always full of dumb ideas


so do you wish to keep cloaking the way it is?


Yeah. No reason to fix what's not broken.

Told ya.

So anyone who does not agree with you is immediately wrong? That's not a very fair debating format.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-01-15 14:56:42 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Im willing to bet isk that the OP is either some worthless renter or some scrubby CVA carebear.

Sorry not shedding any tears for you, if you cant handle the odd afk cloaker in your ratting system then go back to highsec where you belong.

Threads like these probably make more people roll AFK cloaking alts to snipe the OP.



Confirming I am currently afk cloaking 3 different systems and preventing 200+ players from undocking.


Are you sure it's players and not bots? 'Cos I am not gonna lie, that's an average of 60+ per system and if I had 60 people in system with me I would not be afraid of one hostile in local. Or maybe you're in a trade hub?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#290 - 2012-01-15 14:59:34 UTC
met worst wrote:
Rhealee wrote:
Not sure what nfi stands for.

And when it comes to fighting a cloaky or a BO gang your right, its going to be tough. Not everyone wants eve to be easy. I for one enjoy the hard fights over point click shoot.

Cloaking gives you the upperhand and ability to choose your fights. They aren't invincible and shouldnt be treated as such.

The canes work against bombing runs and when you see them in intel comming your way at a gate.

What is the valid argument to get rid of afk cloaking? How is it broke or hurting the game? And if we toss out afk cloaking do we toss out afk mining and afk carrier ratting too?

Maybe you need to grind your way through the whole thread.

The issue is not what they ARE doing that's the problem, it's the threat of what they can do - even when they are in bed asleep. An AFK cloaker is NOT active but has exactly the same effect as though he is. It's a no-risk, no-counter tactic to deny hundreds of players their space - often for days at a time. And you CANNOT stop it.

Stopping them is fair game once they decloak and take someone on - no argument there and we all deserve to win/lose under "normal" circumstances/risk.

Quote:
if we toss out afk cloaking do we toss out afk mining and afk carrier ratting too?

Dammit yes!!!!

Hey wait a minute. Do you know what you said?


I am somewhat curious if you also want CCP to get rid of the ability for players to log off in a hostile system, since everything you are describing that AFK cloakers can potentially do can also be potentially done by someone who is logged off in system. What is your opinion on log-on traps?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#291 - 2012-01-15 15:03:06 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Oh those alts poting, beacause main is to afraid.



Its called Witness Protection Plan.Becasue, you know, we are playing eve and not My littel Pony.
Allso, i like how this degenenarates to elementary schol arguements.My alt was your only major problem??

Are you honestly so paranoid as to think that someone is going to war dec or invade you because of EVE Online forum posts? I don't think you even understand how organisations work. Outside of perhaps very small cults of personality, one never sees an organisation suddenly move in a completely random and non-beneficial direction on a whim.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#292 - 2012-01-15 15:03:35 UTC
Botleten wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:



You didnt even read the thread did you??




Do you think there's any chance in hell Im reading 14 full pages of your horrible whiny posting? Of course I didnt ******* read it.

I've read the entire thread, and you're not missing much. It's the same thread that was here a few months ago.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-01-15 15:05:10 UTC
Botleten wrote:
I like how the OP felt the need to hide behind an alt. AFK cloaking is not a problem. Idiots not knowing how to deal with afk cloakers is the problem.

People do not like to accept fault for their failures or seek ways to improve themselves so as to avoid mishap; instead, western cultures have pampered our citizens to the point that we immediately seek to find fault in others to justify failings of any sort that we experience without regard to how we might improve ourselves. This complaint about AFK Cloaking is just one instance of this trend which is presently the subject of academic scrutiny among sociologists.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#294 - 2012-01-15 15:08:04 UTC
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
met worst wrote:
The reality is that 90% of alliance ratters can't organise a revenge BBQ when confronted with said tactic let alone mount a fast enough response to stop the kill in the first place.

But this is NOT the issue. It's the threat of it when he's in bed. No counter UNTIL he pops up and WHEN that happens is unknown - possibly for days.



An "alliance" which goes to 0.0 with a "sacrifical lamb" attitude for their members is as worth as an industry hi sec "alliance" that explodes the instant someone war decs it.

Why in hell are you playing THE harsh PvP game, in THE harshest PvP zones, with an afk hi sec Mack miner attitude to begin with?


What's different in this thread than any thread created by a random hi sec ice miner with deadspace shield booster who had someone coming to pop them?

It seems the same attitude: "I just want to mine / rat in peace, leave me be".

That's fine, but EvE is a game of consequences, of broken sand castles, of nasty guys.
You got to accept EvE is EvE in the end.





met worst wrote:

An AFK cloaker is NOT active but has exactly the same effect as though he is. It's a no-risk, no-counter tactic to deny hundreds of players their space - often for days at a time. And you CANNOT stop it


Imagine if something prevented AFK cloaking...

...



...



... and people in corps like DR who have/had 24/7 coverage just take turns at logging on cloakers in your system, i.e. 6 guys staying non AFK taking turns for 4 hours a day?


What other thread would we see? Nerf non AFK cloaking?


EvE players are not stupid, they DO circumvent silly obstacles like that.




Learn to play EVE then.
If they take turns, they either jump thru gates to come to the system or log off and on.Both tactics leave them whith a few secs vulnarable.Its so tasty to kill a logged off dude in his safe spot.Twisted

They are also vulnerable for a few seconds when they uncloak to tackle you or light a cyno, but you do not seem willing to accept that as the Cloak Camper being vulnerable. You in fact seem to change your definition of what constitutes vulnerability to fit whatever side of the discussion it best suits you; for example, you seem to think that a miner being vulnerable for the few seconds duration between when he lands on grid and when he has reached full alignment and speed with a celestial object to be too great and unfair. Try as I might to give you the benefit of the doubt, you do not seem to be proposing any coherent or uniform changes to game mechanics, and instead seem to be proposing changes which unilaterally say, "make things better for me."

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#295 - 2012-01-15 15:10:08 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Ghost of Truth wrote:
Andski wrote:
Hordes of forum alts crying over the same thing doesn't really make it a "hot issue." AFK cloaking is a legitimate metagaming tactic - if you don't like metagaming, why do you play EVE?



If you dont like what i say,then why are you answering my call?This is for CCP....


Yes, hello. By posting in a forum visible to and postable by all who play this game, you are inviting all to give their opinion. This is not your private batphone to CCP, it is a public forum. Posting here implies a request to all for their opinion.

tl;dr - Shoot CCP an email if you want a private conversation, ****.

Thsi is a Public Call for supporters of my idea, to be the change implemented in the new expansion.You cant do that in a private convo right?


Are you seriously so oblivious and full of bullshit that you are going to pyramid post the contradiction to what you have just claimed? This has got to be a troll.

I am convinced that the guy is either very inexperienced with the nuances of the English language, or that he is artfully trolling everyone here including myself. I base this determination on his willingness to contradict himself, to ignore advice that provably works to alleviate his stated problem, and a general tendency to avoid using specific language to define and argue his assertions.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#296 - 2012-01-15 15:10:52 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
State War Academy.

HYDRA WILL PROVAIL

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#297 - 2012-01-15 15:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Aedeal wrote:
Well IMO the cyno mechanic is utterly ********. Insta-click and spam some caps? That's the only worry I'd have for AFK cloaky. Anything else is your lookout. Make a spin-up time or cooldown time after cloak on the cyno. No more '1 press button and 1 second later there's a ton of caps'. But then I play WHs, where we don't have to deal with (super)cap blobs like ****. No local out there is considered *fun*.

Addressing this point, are you aware of how absurdly low the scan resolution is on a capital ship and how long it takes for them to lock a target of sub-capital size? It takes several seconds. It also generally takes several seconds for the average player to load being in the new system, which compounded with scan resolution timers and any sort of player-error (i.e., the reaction time from when the scout lights the cyno and the capital pilot pushes the button) leads to an ample window of opportunity for a real player at the keyboard to punch the "Warp" button and get away safely.

Bots on the other hand ... not so good at being quick on the draw, and that's why they're set to avoid doing stuff in space when there are hostiles or neutrals in system, and that's why the people voicing these complaints remain anonymous.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#298 - 2012-01-15 15:16:21 UTC
seany1212 wrote:

Also I love how its filled with mostly noobie alts, to afraid to smack with your mains?

Also also when did spank join genos Shocked

Really the only worthwhile information in this thread is in the quoted part of your post. +1

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#299 - 2012-01-15 15:17:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ah, the delicious tears of botters who come back from work to find their "invulnerable" tengu has been killed. Smile

More likely, his invulnerable Tengu never left its safe spot and never generated ISK because of one guy in local.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Mag's
Azn Empire
#300 - 2012-01-15 15:58:32 UTC
@ Lyris Nairn <3

This thread is pointless, as the anti AFK brigade don't have an argument and will not accept facts over emotional conjecture.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.