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Level V missile support skills, worth it?
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TraderAlt 4153172618
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-14 19:30:34 UTC
I'm pretty much done with my missiles kills and almost done with my per/wis remap, I'm just wondering if the following skills are worth training, since I primarily pvp

Missile Bombardment V - 7 days
Missile Projection V - 13 days
Guided Missile Projection V - 17 days
Target Navigation Projection V - 7 days

Non of them except maybe Target Navigation Projection seem to have enough of an effect to make them worth the time it takes to train.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Thoughts?


Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-01-14 19:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Do you have a burning desire to train something else?

Do you use missiles all the time?

Bombardment + Projection = range, which I really needed for Sleepers in C5/C6 as they can spawn very far away, and when using unguided missiles (rockets, torpedoes, heavy assault missiles, citadel torpedoes) which have a very short range.

Target Navigation Prediction = DPS (explosion velocity). Also affects unguided missiles which are not affected by rigs.

I have Guided Missile Precision 5 on my plan, and eventually Warhead Upgrades 5. I already have all the others to 5, as they don't take as long to train as those two. I also plan to train all the turret support skills to 5 (currently all at level 4, except Gunnery 5 which is rank 1). Currently turrets are a higher priority for me.

I also plan to train Heavy Missile Specialization 5... someday. I use a Tengu a lot.
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-14 20:40:33 UTC
That's less than .1s on Tengu. :)

I need new signature.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#4 - 2012-01-14 21:55:01 UTC
Missile Control Elite on three chars signing in.

Every little helps.

How to win EVE
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-01-15 02:50:22 UTC
Mona X wrote:
That's less than .1s on Tengu. :)

If I've got nothing better to train, I'm gonna train it, because even 17 DPS is still useful to me.

But as I previously posted, I've still got other things to train.
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-15 05:26:27 UTC
TraderAlt 4153172618 wrote:
I'm pretty much done with my missiles kills and almost done with my per/wis remap, I'm just wondering if the following skills are worth training, since I primarily pvp

Missile Bombardment V - 7 days
Missile Projection V - 13 days
Guided Missile Projection V - 17 days
Target Navigation Projection V - 7 days

Non of them except maybe Target Navigation Projection seem to have enough of an effect to make them worth the time it takes to train.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Thoughts?




Missile Bombardment V - YES
Missile Projection V - YES
Guided Missile Precision V - Meh
Target Navigation Projection V - YES
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#7 - 2012-01-17 01:18:36 UTC
I think I've got everything in the Missile category at 5 except Torpedo Specialization.

Well, OK, that's no true, I'm probably missing a couple of obscure skillz completely, and HAMs (which are not obscure but just don't appeal to me), but I'm pretty damn elite in Missiles.

The two rang skillz help immensely. At level 4 each, you get a 96% range bonus (1.4*1.4) relative to untrained, but if you train them to level 5 the range bonus is 125% (1.5*1.5). That's 30% more range. That's nifty if using larger guided missiles, and very important if using small guideds (Standard Missiles) or any unguided (Rockets, Hamsters, Torpedoes).

I can't speak for T2 ammo since I consider furries to be silly, but the 30% extra range may help there as well. Also note that one of the two skillz (I CBA to remember which one) makes your DPS arrive faster. That's always nice.

The only skillz in the Missiles category I've ever regretted training were Torpedoes (and Torpedo Specialization if I ever started on that). Everything else is sweet carebeary goodness, and it's not a question whether you should train them to 5, because of course you should. The only question is when.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-01-17 16:44:10 UTC
Squatdog wrote:
Missile Bombardment V - YES
Missile Projection V - YES
Guided Missile Precision V - Meh
Target Navigation Projection V - YES


That's pretty much my take too. TNP is top priority for all missiles. Projection is next because it increases both range and decreases the time it takes for missiles to get to targets closer than maximum range. Bombardment is most important for unguided missiles, as with Projection 5 guided missiles don't really need that much more range to start with. GMP is a bit niche, but it's still noticeable on, say, an otherwise maxed Tengu that needs to rely on heavies to kill frigates.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-18 02:04:22 UTC
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.

There is no Bob.

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Hoskoal Ricks
#10 - 2012-01-18 02:25:31 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.


QFT, unless you like bombers, missile skills are better spent elsewhere.

The best fleet ships aside from the tengu (and if you have that kind of isk to burn, who cares what you train?) is a turret ship of one kind or another. The best gang ships, all turret ships (inc drake nerf btw). The best mission ships, Mach, Nightmare, Turrets. The best incursion ships? Mach, Nightmare, Vindi, turrets. The best wormhole ships? Oh my lord, missiles win one. Unfortunately for serious isk doing cap escalations you'll need a dread with, you guessed it: TURRETS.

As of the last patch, every turret weapon system (save for medium rails) looks either acceptable or outstanding. As of that same patch, every missile system aside from heavy missiles is either acceptable or **** poor. The latest word on balance and iteration? Improving turrets (don't get my wrong, hybrids needed love and I use them myself). The latest word on missiles or missile ships: nothing is wrong with the nighthawk (lol - wtb some grid, thnx).

Speaking as someone who's got more than one 4+ year old character with maxed out launcher support skills, do yourself a favor and forget these things exist. As mentioned in the first sentence, you either use them to fly a bomber/tengu or you use them to fly something inferior to the many alternatives.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#11 - 2012-01-18 03:43:44 UTC
Quite you heathens!!!!

Behold my mighty drake!!!!!

(All level V ftw)

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-18 12:13:21 UTC
Hoskoal Ricks wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.


QFT, unless you like bombers, missile skills are better spent elsewhere.



Thundercats best cats. :P

I need new signature.
Hoskoal Ricks
#13 - 2012-01-18 19:45:28 UTC
Mona X wrote:
Hoskoal Ricks wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.


QFT, unless you like bombers, missile skills are better spent elsewhere.



Thundercats best cats. :P


Oh right, two ships merit the skills. MY B, DAWG. MY B.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-01-20 13:21:13 UTC
Hoskoal Ricks wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.


QFT, unless you like bombers, missile skills are better spent elsewhere.

The best fleet ships aside from the tengu (and if you have that kind of isk to burn, who cares what you train?) is a turret ship of one kind or another. The best gang ships, all turret ships (inc drake nerf btw). The best mission ships, Mach, Nightmare, Turrets. The best incursion ships? Mach, Nightmare, Vindi, turrets. The best wormhole ships? Oh my lord, missiles win one. Unfortunately for serious isk doing cap escalations you'll need a dread with, you guessed it: TURRETS.

As of the last patch, every turret weapon system (save for medium rails) looks either acceptable or outstanding. As of that same patch, every missile system aside from heavy missiles is either acceptable or **** poor. The latest word on balance and iteration? Improving turrets (don't get my wrong, hybrids needed love and I use them myself). The latest word on missiles or missile ships: nothing is wrong with the nighthawk (lol - wtb some grid, thnx).

Speaking as someone who's got more than one 4+ year old character with maxed out launcher support skills, do yourself a favor and forget these things exist. As mentioned in the first sentence, you either use them to fly a bomber/tengu or you use them to fly something inferior to the many alternatives.


This man speaks the truth. I have 12M SP in gunnery but only 452K in missiles (over half of which is Rockets V from my FW days). Only thing I can't do that actually matters sometimes is fly a Drake, and even then I just fly something else (usually a Hurricane or a Lachesis, depending on fleet comp and doctrine).

I'll go out on a limb and say the Drake is the only missile ship that is commonly used in pvp. Sure, you'll see Caracals and Ravens once in a while but people don't build fleets out of them. The Crow is really good too but it's job is point, not DPS, and the Tengu costs too much for (most) people to just throw them at whatever looks interesting regardless of the outcome.

It doesn't help that there's absolutely zero synergy between gun and missile skills. Even as a secondary weapon system neuts are a solid alternative to missiles on most pvp fits.

KB Link
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-01-20 15:30:03 UTC
Stealth bombers also see PvP activity.
Boyd Achura
#16 - 2012-01-20 21:00:23 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
Hoskoal Ricks wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
None of them are useful, train the gunnery ones to 5 instead.


QFT, unless you like bombers, missile skills are better spent elsewhere.

The best fleet ships aside from the tengu (and if you have that kind of isk to burn, who cares what you train?) is a turret ship of one kind or another. The best gang ships, all turret ships (inc drake nerf btw). The best mission ships, Mach, Nightmare, Turrets. The best incursion ships? Mach, Nightmare, Vindi, turrets. The best wormhole ships? Oh my lord, missiles win one. Unfortunately for serious isk doing cap escalations you'll need a dread with, you guessed it: TURRETS.

As of the last patch, every turret weapon system (save for medium rails) looks either acceptable or outstanding. As of that same patch, every missile system aside from heavy missiles is either acceptable or **** poor. The latest word on balance and iteration? Improving turrets (don't get my wrong, hybrids needed love and I use them myself). The latest word on missiles or missile ships: nothing is wrong with the nighthawk (lol - wtb some grid, thnx).

Speaking as someone who's got more than one 4+ year old character with maxed out launcher support skills, do yourself a favor and forget these things exist. As mentioned in the first sentence, you either use them to fly a bomber/tengu or you use them to fly something inferior to the many alternatives.


This man speaks the truth. I have 12M SP in gunnery but only 452K in missiles (over half of which is Rockets V from my FW days). Only thing I can't do that actually matters sometimes is fly a Drake, and even then I just fly something else (usually a Hurricane or a Lachesis, depending on fleet comp and doctrine).

I'll go out on a limb and say the Drake is the only missile ship that is commonly used in pvp. Sure, you'll see Caracals and Ravens once in a while but people don't build fleets out of them. The Crow is really good too but it's job is point, not DPS, and the Tengu costs too much for (most) people to just throw them at whatever looks interesting regardless of the outcome.

It doesn't help that there's absolutely zero synergy between gun and missile skills. Even as a secondary weapon system neuts are a solid alternative to missiles on most pvp fits.


Have to agree with both of you and I only fly caldari at this point. My hope is that the upcoming balance patch(es) will begin to address the issue. I am just thankful I got my gunnery skills early on. Being able to hop into the naga gave me a new lease on life with a character I was beginning to hate. If it were not for that and the joy of flying the basi, I probably would have cross trained by now.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#17 - 2012-02-09 20:38:59 UTC
TraderAlt 4153172618 wrote:
I'm pretty much done with my missiles kills and almost done with my per/wis remap, I'm just wondering if the following skills are worth training, since I primarily pvp

Missile Bombardment V - 7 days
Missile Projection V - 13 days
Guided Missile Projection V - 17 days
Target Navigation Projection V - 7 days

Non of them except maybe Target Navigation Projection seem to have enough of an effect to make them worth the time it takes to train.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Thoughts?




I recently came back from a long break. I bought myself 700,000 cruise missles. A week later my bay was empty and was like...WTH? Where's my missles?!

SO I did the math...and realized I can go through 700,000 missles in a week.

Short answer - Hell ya, they are worth it....for me anyway.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-02-09 21:59:48 UTC
Missile haters. Ugh
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#19 - 2012-02-10 19:09:54 UTC
Salpad wrote:
The two rang skillz help immensely. At level 4 each, you get a 96% range bonus (1.4*1.4) relative to untrained, but if you train them to level 5 the range bonus is 125% (1.5*1.5). That's 30% more range.

30% more of the base range.

training both to lvl 5 gives you a 15% bonus over having both at 4.

/masthsnob

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Czeris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-02-11 12:30:32 UTC
There are some very viable pvp missile fits.

Dual web HAM drake
Fleet HML Drake
Stealth Bombers
Frig killing AML caracal is loltastic.
Elite PvP fleet tengu
etc..

All those skills are on my long term plan, after I do some of the gunnery stuff I've been neglecting.
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