Player Features and Ideas Discussion

//grr, I hate character limiting posts ^-^.




Ugh, I hope I didn't frakk up the cut and pasting when writing this text ~

Quick Foreword:
I am well aware that the diction in these suggestions are not the best. My english is no longer what it used to be. Yet, I am only tossing ideas into the room. If CCP listens to people suggesting crap, then I can post crap too :D. I want to see more non-FOTM and non-IWIN ships in the game that have decent roles and not just the same old crap where I confront the same ships because the others are said to useless - and granted, a variety of them really are.

The suggestions here will features some unusual ideas that simply came to my mind about how to make the game more challenging, interesting, realistic or beefing it in a way that the NOTSOKOOWL/non-fotm ships to support the small stuff but without tagging "ship level improves dmg/RoF by x% ".

Because, personally and frankly, I'm getting a bit sick of seeing the same ships on the field while the others just collect dust, just because these 'useless' ships usually have...
a) Have fixed and crappy ship bonuses (honestly, who uses Breacher? - Yeah, t1 frigate "Breacher", not t2 STEALTH BOMBER "Hound")
b) Have no true way of fitting them otherwise than cookie cutter; and if fitted otherwise, they are gimped
c) Or don't have the usual "ship skill level increases damage and rate of fire by x%"
etc.
Sure, people use t1 as well. We know the hurricane/drake spam. We know Crucible will bring back hybrid-turret ships but other than that - these suggestions are not about copypasting t1 ships -> t2 abilities, but there needs to be a bit more of an expansion to it if you ask me.
T2 ships could get something appropriately but let's not forget that those ships usually already have a superb ability. And T3 already brought the example of how it could work out. More later.

In a different example, a t1 cruiser could fit subsystems that bring bonuses, but the subsystem itself can and will sustain dmg once the armor starts getting hit; if the subsystem blows -- bonus is gone. But that is all for a different thread, so let's ignore that subsystem idea for now.

Also, EVE PVP and PVE should be full of diversity and not have the same ol' ships just because they are far superior over others. It is possible to create fun diversity with T1 (or T0 in this case) vessels without having them to be IWIN -- yet, they can have survivability without just raw pwnage-dmg. The idea is to expand on different aspects. Eve lives from being complicated. This is Eve, not WoW or SWTOR or any other MMO with "dumb-downness". So let us HTFU. :D

After all, these suggestions are to make the actual part of ship PVP and PVE fun with diverse ships as well as improving the old ladies of the t1 vessel pool that have not seen any improvement or true use (hello Breacher).

I will do my best to cut right to the chase. There will be a lot of reading to do. If you are afraid of wall of text, click on the "x" at the upper left corner of your browser, count to three and go back to ship spinning.

Of course, a massive force of zergling-t1s will maul stuff, but I intend to invent a plethora of small, little things that could raise the survivability - not to invulnerability but to a point where t1 ships become more important in the role of being true support ships. But therefore, there would have to be changes in certain "terms".

I know that people tend to like the "hard-n-fast wtfpwn with health bars" over the 'subsystem/decks/internal/regional damage model' as you would see in classic Star Trek ("Omg, Captain, casualties on deck 7 thru 14! Power conduits blown -- Phaser Banks are offline, Sensors are blablabla").

But we can still add small features to give various T1 ships real teeth. And we can do it very simple or in an advanced manner. The small frigates are usually tacklers, granted, but how about giving them means to survive incoming artillery and missile spam.
Coupling the idea of weapon pylons, such T1 ships could have additional armaments as well as the means to still a dangerous asset in fleet battles. But I will be posting that in a different thread, to ensure a decent split-overview of suggestion.



Soooooooooooooo.
I will try to keep things general for now and put a more full list of ship classes in a seperate thread since this thread is to be a general one.

Let me start with new "ship class roles".



The ships found under the current FRIGATE category [Rifter, Slasher, Condor, Etc] could be re-categorized into separate general terms of ship classes that would hold key aspects respectively. The mentioned ship hulls as imagined examples would be representative in several sorts of naval umbrella terms.
In short, we would see the Rifter hull in class/market dropdowns found across specific ship classes like Corvette, Skirmisher, Raider etc -- yet no longer in FRIGATE.

Also, we could play with general ship class names and terms. When using the dropdown. The specific combination would appear also as the ship's "ROLE:" in the ship's info/description.

So A (Role) + B (Class) = AB
Example 1 : Like "Escort + Frigate", "Scout + Frigate", "Strike + Frigate" etc ->
The first term describes its key role and also defines their general aspect. This also brings specific virtues regarding survivability.

Sticking to the current Eve-frigate term of Rifter in this example:
We'd have a Rifter with several role variants as an Escort Frigate; Scout Frigate; Strike Frigate etc
Instead of the two-in-one ship bonus "Dmg and Tracking Speed", we would see some 3 or 4 pairs including the "Role Bonus" aspect based on their primary role name.
Better would be to have different categories regarding bonuses to maintain overview. Perhaps even as a separate tab; meaning to have separate "Description/Lore" and "Ship Bonuses" tabs.

- So you are saying you want to overpower every ship by giving them some 4 pairs of ship bonuses, make T1 stronger over T2?
Stop whining and HTFU :D.
First off for the T2 lubbers, the T2 ships will also get their love. Not that extreme like T1 but they should always be a step ahead -- However, T1 roles should be something that T2s still have to worry about.

The idea behind this is having T1 variants, some that are even "T1.5"'ish -- but more or survivability and viable aspects for specific jobs that are currently deemed impossible. We might as well could see "T2.5" variants as well : ).
Also, one "bonus" could contain a penalty.

*

So, following a different classification system...

In a way, the root directory in the market could be Escort, Scout/Light, Strike, Support, (Raider/Submariner) roles.
I will make a rough list of what ship would be where.
For now, here is a short example in order to show what I mean.

Tristan/Rifter/Punisher/Merlin would be moved --> from current Frigate to CORVETTE.
Why?
While we currently have a wide variety of frigs, it is plausible that the Frigs like Rifter/Tristan are different than Slasher/Condor (the t1 Interceptor ones). It will be too difficult to give bonuses to all frigs while these are still found under that mix of "frigates".

Regarding Tristan, the Tristan hull should truly be more of a Juggernaut - I'd even dare say an assault-frigate type of resilience but without the damage bonuses. It should be able to take some serious punishment for a CORVETTE. It should be the true "Fat man". It should be a tough nut to crack. Slower than the usual CORVETTEs but nevertheless a useful asset. Also, this Tristan version should receive a module to represent "Bodyguard", allowing it to absorb incoming fire with its shield (the exterior pylons that is).

Some of the current frigates could be reimagined into the umbrella term STRIKECRAFT, which are somewhere slightly smaller than CORVETTEs -- Here you'd find Slasher, Condor etc, but they would have their key uses and survivability means as well.

Also, the term Frigate in my ears applies more to larger ships - which the current frigate pool doesn't really fulfill, and such Frigate appearance should be somewhere just slightly below the size of Cruisers -- Thus, I decided to have the Frigates + Destroyers be paired and also be much larger in appearance (speaking of their size/length).

You can then have a dropdown menu of ESCORTS, -> ; Escort frigate/destroyers, Escort cruiser, (Escort) Corvette.

We do not need to exceed or exaggerate but just to show how it can be done. Also, specific types could have respective role bonuses. Some term combinations would just sound just cool too. Remember, in my examples, the new FRIGATEs are not to be equal the DESTROYER hull. But I will explain that later in a separate category. I wanted to free up Frigate so we could have another Destroyer'ish hull that is more about defensive measures like flak systems and with more Med-Slots than Hi-Slots.

(Yet, if it is too complicated, we could also leave the current frigates as they are, add in corvette as another paired-frigate role and also introduce another brother/sister to the destroyer family)

Recap:
< ROLE > + < VESSEL CLASS >
Example1: ESCORT CORVETTE or LIGHT CRUISER or SCOUT FRIGATE etc.
Example 2: The terms like ESCORT as well as the ship class term CORVETTE could both bear general hints on what the ship's duty could be whenever a player confronts them.
An escort would mean a ship either dedicated to anti-frigate (alike current EVE Destroyer hulls) or defensive duties (flak, cover etc, more later) -- Corvette would mean it could be an evasive hull that deems bonuses to its survival. Thus, it would be more "evasive" and dodgy; this could either be represented by a much smaller sig radius and perhaps a minor reduction to sustained damage.

ALSO, not every racial faction has to have the same set. Minmatar could have "STRIKE CRUISERS", while Caldari would have "LIGHT CRUISERS"; as a lousy example. Yet, let's be fair and give everybody distinct ship types.

On the other hand, a STRIKE CORVETTE, would be, while deeming the aforementioned corvette aspects of survival, it would be a ship dedicated to Afterburner and heavier weaponry that can deal considerable damage to Battlecruiser hulls and above as well as optimal/falloff range bonuses -- Strike Corvettes would somewhere involve loose features similar to the current "Assault Frigate".

BUT NOTE:
STRIKE-tagged ships would contain notable penalty, such as a major tracking speed deficit. STRIKE COVETTES/CRUISERS are imagined to be fast Afterburner ships with viable aspects of surviving a multitude of incoming fire. They would also not be as doomed to tripple webs either and can also "dodge" hails of deadly missiles.
STRIKE-tagged ships are therefore designed to be flyby-ship that can deal damage while flying by at high speeds.

Each would have the specific ship classes, Frigate, Corvette, Cruiser
Example ship of a "STRIKE CRUISER" description as I would imagine it:
Foreword - I always loved to see something of a "Tech-Zero history" somewhat based on something I read or heard a long time ago. It was said for instance that specific infantry weapons of World War II were actually "overpowered" for their actual task, and thus modern day assault rifles were born and evolved. However, it is said that such old WW2 weapons could STILL overcome certain modern day weapons due to their nature.
Now this does not mean to "overpower" a Tech-Zero ship, but let's say that the navies across EVE now insist to return to the old designs and combine them with what is today.
Also, remember the re-imagined "Battlestar Galactica" vessel? (of course you do, if you are a scifi/EVE fan ;P) -- Why did the ancient and old Battlestar Galactica vessel and its strikecrafts of rusty Viper fighters survived the Cylon genocide and the uber hacking event that disabled all other modern ships....?

So, in shorter words, lore-wise, today's navies someday considered grabbing back on old vessel doctrines from the old days of EVE.

So, here is the example:
Foreword: The bonuses of this sort of ship type may sound extreme at first, but this is to deem this version is imagined as a resilient vessel that can strike right through a fleet like an arrow. It's main role is more of an anti-BC/BS assault run - Dashing in and right out, dealing heavy damage upon it's target.

Ship name "BRIGAND"
Role: Strike Cruiser
Hull: Stabber

Description: The "Brigand" is the Tech-Zero forefather of its successor, the "Stabber" Light Assault Cruiser of the Minmatar Navy. Capable of streaking through a tight formation of an enemy fleet, the Brigand can perform strafing runs with blazing heavy turrets and can come out almost unscathed; mostly thanked to its [blue subsystems] that counter attempts of stasis-webification and sophisticated armor deflectors that are common for the late "Vagabond" variant.
ooc: Remember the Vagabond's Peacock feathers? :)
Furthermore, with the Brigand having been born in the time where micro-warpdrives and shield systems were still in dreams of R&D inventors throughout the earlier millenniums of the EVE universe, matari navy officials were solely reliable upon the creativity of mad rocket scientists. Fulfilling their wishes of a capable Strike Cruiser, the "Brigand" is not only capable of surviving a plethora of incoming fire; but also can fit bulky Afterburner systems that were actually bound for battleship hulls.
Forging the crude procedures of yesterday with modern aspects, the Brigand's weapon systems are defined to bleedthrough and even penetrate shields' electromagnetic frequencies.

As of today, several matari republic fleet segments have revived this ancient vessel as today's enemies are much more cunning than ever. To counter this, the matari have revived such vessels that were once nicknamed as "unpredictable". The Brigand, while a resilient beast for a cruiser and is certainly not as agile as its modern ancestors - and may be regarded as an old and rusty useless heap in other occasions - has proven itself as what matari combat pilots commonly refer to as a "blast from the past"...

ooc There are serious penalties, nonetheless.

CORVETTE
(simplified version)
See this dropdown menu with your typical Rifter/Tristan/Merlin-Kestrel/Punisher hulls as well as two or maybe even three variants.
Corvettes should be a viable asset to any fleet as they possess specific natural advantages and countermeasures, making them not only dangerous, but giving the opposing force the need for destroyer hulls.
CORVETTEs also have a decent slot layout as well as access to specific unique weapon systems -- Respectively depending on what role they are (Escort Corvette; Strike Corvette etc).



~ Short, all posted would be more out of the box, canon'ish and irregular ideas that could for instance give various other t1 ships key uses rather than being the usual "instapop" that just blow up just by looking at them. T2 and T3 ships are rather strong enough; so this is more or less solely about T1 and how they can be a bit more of a use without just tanking it all up or "moar %dmg/rof per level".

Of course, this may and certain will go into a sort of detail that would simply make people say "will never happen", hence the naming of this weird thread. Yet. Everybody seems to enjoy some spice added to the game and since CCP does seem to turn things around to make the game more innovating and fun, why not toss in 'bad ideas', huh? :P
I felt that I should post this after all, careless if it will be mangled by the vacuum of forum trolls in space - at least I can die happy once this is posted :P.