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Blastos

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2012-01-13 05:49:38 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
As you will see if you consult my results with a non-zero angular, the Talos has better results when using real-game numbers and not arbitrary ones.
No. It has a higher result, which is actually worse, due to how the chance-to-hit equation works. You want the terms in the CTH formula to be zero, or as close to as possible.

As it happens, the Talos is worse by a factor of 2.7.
Cyzlaki
BRAWLS DEEP
HYPE-TRAIN
#122 - 2012-01-13 05:53:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:
As you will see if you consult my results with a non-zero angular, the Talos has better results when using real-game numbers and not arbitrary ones.
No. It has a higher result, which is actually worse, due to how the chance-to-hit equation works. You want the terms in the CTH formula to be zero, or as close to as possible.

As it happens, the Talos is worse by a factor of 2.7.

No, the higher the tracking the better. It seems you really do know nothing outside of equations.
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#123 - 2012-01-13 05:53:57 UTC
WTB Talos

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2012-01-13 05:56:23 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
[quote=Corina Jarr][quote=Cyzlaki]
I had arrive3d at that conclusion on page 1. It was only one idiot saying otherwise. Anyways as for your Tornado tracking. .062 vs .038 buddy. Although the Talos outdamages it (and everything else) by a fair margin and at similar ranges.


as i already said twice, comparing talos with a zealot proves nothing.

what i would really like to hear is why is it so much better than the tornado that it makes it op.
cause if it only does like 100dps more at say 30km. i can live with that and it doesnt make it op imo.
I see alot of good pilots use both ship with great results and no one is saying the tornado is overpowered.
Liam Mirren
#125 - 2012-01-13 05:56:53 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
EFT doesn't take piloting into account (both bad as good), good pilots will kill bad ones even when flying setups that shouldn't work. The Talos is indeed surprisingly decent if flown right but my personal love boat is a nano Naga with 45k EHP. While it has obvious flaws it's fun to make it work anyway. On paper it's very limited in use, in practise you can make it work if you're aware of both your as the opponent's pros and cons.

Again, the Talos sports superior range, damage and tracking to the Naga.


And DRONES. You can't emphasize that enough really.

-Liang


Drones are obvious and so is tracking but it doesn't have the superior range unless you start fooling around with faction fits to lower cpu. Naga has a surprising combo of EHP and speed that makes it work in a kiting fit. Would you pit them against eachother the Naga would win.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#126 - 2012-01-13 06:01:28 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
No, the higher the tracking the better.
…but you're not calculating the tracking in the formula you used. You're calculating a part of the chance-to-hit formula, which uses the inverse of tracking. With higher tracking, you arrive at a lower number. In your calculation, the Talos end up with a higher number because it has a lower effective tracking.


Look at the formula you used again:

angular velocity / tracking × signature resolution / signature radius.

You want the whole thing to be as close to zero as possible — that's why angular_v = 0 is so good: the whole thing automatically comes out as zero.

Higher velocity is bad. Higher tracking is good. Higher signature resolution is bad. Higher signature radius is good. A higher number for the entire formula is bad. You ended up with a higher number for the Talos because of its higher signature resolution (a bad thing). The Zealot ended up with a lower number because of its lower signature resolution (a good thing).

The Zealot's number as 2.7 times lower than the Talos' — the Zealot effectively tracks 2.7× better.
Cyzlaki
BRAWLS DEEP
HYPE-TRAIN
#127 - 2012-01-13 06:01:34 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
EFT doesn't take piloting into account (both bad as good), good pilots will kill bad ones even when flying setups that shouldn't work. The Talos is indeed surprisingly decent if flown right but my personal love boat is a nano Naga with 45k EHP. While it has obvious flaws it's fun to make it work anyway. On paper it's very limited in use, in practise you can make it work if you're aware of both your as the opponent's pros and cons.

Again, the Talos sports superior range, damage and tracking to the Naga.


And DRONES. You can't emphasize that enough really.

-Liang


Drones are obvious and so is tracking but it doesn't have the superior range unless you start fooling around with faction fits to lower cpu. Naga has a surprising combo of EHP and speed that makes it work in a kiting fit. Would you pit them against eachother the Naga would win.

LOL no Talos wins EZ
Liam Mirren
#128 - 2012-01-13 06:03:18 UTC
Post your fit and we'll see what happens.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Stabs McShiv
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-01-13 06:06:12 UTC
The naga wins every time so dos the nado and yes if you hit keep at range OH your mwd and drop some drop you will pop fast tackle so will a cane a nano mega a acphoon and pretty much any other tier3.

In short ops a troll and a talos will kill vagas unless they oh in time to pull out of fall off.

Talos working just as intended.
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2012-01-13 06:07:00 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cyzlaki wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
EFT doesn't take piloting into account (both bad as good), good pilots will kill bad ones even when flying setups that shouldn't work. The Talos is indeed surprisingly decent if flown right but my personal love boat is a nano Naga with 45k EHP. While it has obvious flaws it's fun to make it work anyway. On paper it's very limited in use, in practise you can make it work if you're aware of both your as the opponent's pros and cons.

Again, the Talos sports superior range, damage and tracking to the Naga.


And DRONES. You can't emphasize that enough really.

-Liang


Drones are obvious and so is tracking but it doesn't have the superior range unless you start fooling around with faction fits to lower cpu. Naga has a surprising combo of EHP and speed that makes it work in a kiting fit. Would you pit them against eachother the Naga would win.



Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.
Liam Mirren
#131 - 2012-01-13 06:08:38 UTC
Biced wrote:
Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.


Learn to read, I said COMBO of speed and EHP. I'm waiting for mr. "lulz Talos wins EZ" and then we'll have a look.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-01-13 06:17:13 UTC
Cyzlaki wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
EFT doesn't take piloting into account (both bad as good), good pilots will kill bad ones even when flying setups that shouldn't work. The Talos is indeed surprisingly decent if flown right but my personal love boat is a nano Naga with 45k EHP. While it has obvious flaws it's fun to make it work anyway. On paper it's very limited in use, in practise you can make it work if you're aware of both your as the opponent's pros and cons.

Again, the Talos sports superior range, damage and tracking to the Naga.



Kindly explain how the talos does better range than the naga? And while you're at it, how it does better damage with any reasonable fit (as in, shield tanks manage more damage mods, and guess which one manages a better shield tank?)

-Arazel
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2012-01-13 06:17:15 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.


Learn to read, I said COMBO of speed and EHP. I'm waiting for mr. "lulz Talos wins EZ" and then we'll have a look.


so the combo of being slower and having more ehp makes it better at kiting?
Liam Mirren
#134 - 2012-01-13 06:21:58 UTC
Biced wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.


Learn to read, I said COMBO of speed and EHP. I'm waiting for mr. "lulz Talos wins EZ" and then we'll have a look.


so the combo of being slower and having more ehp makes it better at kiting?


You're trying very hard, in a straight up fight (per what I stated) the combination of EHP and DPS for the naga works out better than for the Talos, tracking is not an issue in these fights as the Naga can pull range and while doing so forces the Talos to MWD. There is one situation where the Talos could get a victory but I'm waiting to see if Mr "Talos wins EZ" is capable of thinking that one up, as it's very unrealistic.

As long as you don't do the "talos pilot is uber and the Naga pilot is a moron who made a mistake" the Talos will not win.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2012-01-13 06:30:48 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.


Learn to read, I said COMBO of speed and EHP. I'm waiting for mr. "lulz Talos wins EZ" and then we'll have a look.


so the combo of being slower and having more ehp makes it better at kiting?


You're trying very hard, in a straight up fight (per what I stated) the combination of EHP and DPS for the naga works out better than for the Talos, tracking is not an issue in these fights as the Naga can pull range and while doing so forces the Talos to MWD. There is one situation where the Talos could get a victory but I'm waiting to see if Mr "Talos wins EZ" is capable of thinking that one up, as it's very unrealistic.

As long as you don't do the "talos pilot is uber and the Naga pilot is a moron who made a mistake" the Talos will not win.


I am simply having fun with you. cause you clearly cant (or havent) fly either one and dont know what you are talking about Lol
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#136 - 2012-01-13 06:31:33 UTC
lolz. talos is awesome.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liam Mirren
#137 - 2012-01-13 06:34:49 UTC
Biced wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Biced wrote:
Ineresting...
i like the part where you say a naga has better speed than the talos the most...
please share that fit of yours that makes the shield talos so inferior.


Learn to read, I said COMBO of speed and EHP. I'm waiting for mr. "lulz Talos wins EZ" and then we'll have a look.


so the combo of being slower and having more ehp makes it better at kiting?


You're trying very hard, in a straight up fight (per what I stated) the combination of EHP and DPS for the naga works out better than for the Talos, tracking is not an issue in these fights as the Naga can pull range and while doing so forces the Talos to MWD. There is one situation where the Talos could get a victory but I'm waiting to see if Mr "Talos wins EZ" is capable of thinking that one up, as it's very unrealistic.

As long as you don't do the "talos pilot is uber and the Naga pilot is a moron who made a mistake" the Talos will not win.


I am simply having fun with you. cause you clearly cant (or havent) fly either one and dont know what you are talking about Lol


I'm sure you do, go fetch some numbers.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#138 - 2012-01-13 06:35:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jesus Rambo wrote:
Posting in a Tippia - Liang warthread.

10/10 would read again
Would it get a higher number if we were warring against each other?


No, but joining forces against Liang and ignorance about tracking would be cool.

Of course, I also value my life.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2012-01-13 06:37:11 UTC
Jesus Rambo wrote:
Of course, I also value my life.
Pff. Weakling. P
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-01-13 06:39:26 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
I'm sure you do, go fetch some numbers.


just proved my point right there tyvm =p