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Resolution options for windowed mode - which ones would you like?

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CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-01-12 11:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gangleri
It has been a long running pet project of mine to apply some love to Mac clients running in windowed mode or with an additional monitor available on their system, unfortunately this project has now hit an insurmountable technical hurdle that seriously limits our options. As it turns out the engineering required to allow EVE to run in full screen on a second monitor is pretty crazy, so we can't do that. We also can't really query the OS for the actual resolution of the system, we always just get the main monitor.

What we can do however is query for the max resolution of the systems main monitor and then offer various windowed mode resolution options based on that. As I was compiling that list of resolutions I started thinking you guys probably know better than I do what resolutions you want, so I am writing this thread to ask for your input. Here is the list of additional resolutions I already had, ordered by the max resolution of the system:

2560 x 1600

  • 2560 x 1556
  • 1280 x 1556


2560 x 1440

  • 2560 x 1396
  • 1280 x 1396


1920 x 1200

  • 1920 x 1156
  • 1024 x 1156


1920 x 1080

  • 1920 x 1036
  • 1024 x 1036


1680 x 1050

  • 1680 x 1006
  • 1024 x 1006


1440 x 900

  • 1440 x 856


1280 x 800

  • 1280 x 756


1366 x 768

  • 1366 x 724



The rule of thumb is cutting 44 pixels off the vertical count to allow a windowed mode client to use most of the available screen real estate. On the really monstrous resolutions I have also added a 'portrait' mode.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#2 - 2012-01-12 12:30:17 UTC
Is 44 pixels enough to keep the OSX bar at the top of the page, the window bar for the Game client and still be able to see the clock on the bottom of the EvE screen??

I had to go to full screen the other day due to the settings being borked to move my ship control thingy from the bottom to the top so i can see the status of shields/armor/hull and i docked like that. I just noticed the ship spinning indicator thingy. When did that get added? is 44 pixels enough for us to see that also, even with the 2 bars at the top of the screen?



Along with this the new devblog for the neocom v2.0. The V1.0 had the option for side and bottom, but it seems bottom is no longer an option, which is good because I could not see it, but top would be great IMO, as it seems it is also where minimized windows will get docked, which will prevent them from running off screen in windowed mode.


Now, if I could only get the client playable on my laptop while traveling, I would be good, as the performance is so bad I can't even login to take advantage of these beautiful new features that are being added.
CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2012-01-12 12:44:13 UTC
According to my research (mostly just googling) the two bars are 22 pixels each, I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though since I'm no expert on this stuff.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Zotikos Xenon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-12 15:16:55 UTC
Sounds good to me, on this system (24" iMac) my resolution is 1920x1200 and I have been running SwitchResX to get a resolution 1920x1150. It leaves a small sliver of desktop exposed so 44 pixels sounds perfect. I'll check on my 27" iMac later.
Amanda Fuller
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-12 17:23:22 UTC
Yes, both bars are 22 pixels each.
I would love to have the game in windowed mode at 2560 x 1396 pixels.
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#6 - 2012-01-12 21:08:52 UTC
What about an Open GL native game. With 5 monitors, I can have 4 WoW accounts open (I could probably do 5, but I only have 4, so well, I can only test 4) open on 4 different monitors, all in windowed full screen.

I can only assume the technical hurdles are with direct x and wine/cedega/transgaming as the windows client can do it easily and a native mac client can do it easily, so it must be the emulator.

So, again, native Open GL FTW
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#7 - 2012-01-12 21:11:11 UTC
On a more serious note, not that i am not serious about a Native client, but i know that CCP isn't....

Will we be able to swap resolutions on the fly and keep things sane in the overview?

For example, if I have something on 2560x1556 and swap it to a 1920x1156 monitor, will I have to readjust every window, or will it be like windows and everything scales as long as the aspect is the same?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#8 - 2012-01-13 06:06:30 UTC
Here's the thing: Using ventrillo means I do not see the com channel list unless I go to windowed mode and make vent front most. So I switch to and from windowed mode alot.

Would it be possible to make the client automatically switch resolutions when going to or from windowed mode? I really would like that 44 pixels back once I go full screen, without having to visit the esc menu for every switch.

And you got a resolution on your list that would make windowed mode on my MBP not be clipped.

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CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2012-01-13 09:28:11 UTC
Adrenalinemax wrote:
What about an Open GL native game. With 5 monitors, I can have 4 WoW accounts open (I could probably do 5, but I only have 4, so well, I can only test 4) open on 4 different monitors, all in windowed full screen.

I can only assume the technical hurdles are with direct x and wine/cedega/transgaming as the windows client can do it easily and a native mac client can do it easily, so it must be the emulator.

So, again, native Open GL FTW



I am not sure what you mean by "windowed full screen" but it sounds an awful lot like what I am talking about which is offering a resolution in windowed mode that still uses all available screen real estate.

Adrenalinemax wrote:
On a more serious note, not that i am not serious about a Native client, but i know that CCP isn't....

Will we be able to swap resolutions on the fly and keep things sane in the overview?

For example, if I have something on 2560x1556 and swap it to a 1920x1156 monitor, will I have to readjust every window, or will it be like windows and everything scales as long as the aspect is the same?


We are not changing any of the UI behaviours, just offering more resolutions. That said the UI shouldn't behave differently between platforms so if you are able to reproduce a scenario where the UI gets scrambled on Mac but not in Windows please file a bug report on that.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-01-13 10:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Windowed full screen = Borderless window that is set to be same size as a physical screen and anchored to the 0,0 of the screen.

As far as Windows is concerned, it is still a window and if you hit Windows key to bring up start menu, the bottom bar and start menu of windows comes on top of the game window (and when you click on the game window, it again gains focus and appears to cover the whole screen). Not sure how things work on a mac, but I'd assume it would be similar.

Main benefit comes with multi-monitor setups that can get finicky with application focus if you are running a full screen app. Most common symptom; you click on your secondary monitor and the main monitor full-screen app minimizes...
Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#11 - 2012-01-13 11:39:22 UTC
CCP Gangleri wrote:

We are not changing any of the UI behaviours, just offering more resolutions. That said the UI shouldn't behave differently between platforms so if you are able to reproduce a scenario where the UI gets scrambled on Mac but not in Windows please file a bug report on that.



After thinking about this some more and some LIMITED testing, I think it stems from the fact that when I do it in winblows now, the windows are "Locked" to some aspect of eve, be it the bottom of the screen or some other element of the UI. In Mac when i try it, the windows are typically free floating as I can't see the bottom of my screen, so they are "Sitting" on the bottom of my viewable screen, but not locked to any object, so when i change resolutions, things happen MUCH differently.
Hopefully the ability to change resolutions to 44 pixels less vertical will allow us to lock windows to UI elements and prevent the window scatter when changing resolutions due to monitor changes.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2012-01-13 13:57:19 UTC
CCP Gangleri wrote:


I am not sure what you mean by "windowed full screen" but it sounds an awful lot like what I am talking about which is offering a resolution in windowed mode that still uses all available screen real estate.


In windowed full screen mode Eve would use up the entire screen, every pixel top to bottom. Visually, it looks no different than if you were in full screen mode. Yet when you move the mouse to the edge where you keep your dock, it appears. And if you activate another application its window would appear on top of eve, while underneath eve still has a screen top to screen bottom window.

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Adrenalinemax
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#13 - 2012-01-13 22:43:49 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Gangleri wrote:


I am not sure what you mean by "windowed full screen" but it sounds an awful lot like what I am talking about which is offering a resolution in windowed mode that still uses all available screen real estate.


In windowed full screen mode Eve would use up the entire screen, every pixel top to bottom. Visually, it looks no different than if you were in full screen mode. Yet when you move the mouse to the edge where you keep your dock, it appears. And if you activate another application its window would appear on top of eve, while underneath eve still has a screen top to screen bottom window.



Not exactly...or well...maybe...

If you play Warcraft in fullscreen windowed mode and are using your main window, it covers both the top bar and your dock and you have NO access to either of them unless you go to windowed mode, or click on any other program (including the finder) on a different monitor and that means WoW is NOT the focus, then the top bar and dock become visible.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#14 - 2012-01-14 13:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Adrenalinemax wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Gangleri wrote:


I am not sure what you mean by "windowed full screen" but it sounds an awful lot like what I am talking about which is offering a resolution in windowed mode that still uses all available screen real estate.


In windowed full screen mode Eve would use up the entire screen, every pixel top to bottom. Visually, it looks no different than if you were in full screen mode. Yet when you move the mouse to the edge where you keep your dock, it appears. And if you activate another application its window would appear on top of eve, while underneath eve still has a screen top to screen bottom window.



Not exactly...or well...maybe...

If you play Warcraft in fullscreen windowed mode and are using your main window, it covers both the top bar and your dock and you have NO access to either of them unless you go to windowed mode, or click on any other program (including the finder) on a different monitor and that means WoW is NOT the focus, then the top bar and dock become visible.


Guess Ive seen it both ways. Ive also seen it where the top most bar, the one with the apple on it, will appear if you move the mouse to screen top. In any case, its got to be useful to those of us with just one screen. If I had a full screen window and no access to the dock, I still need a way to go to another application without having to toggle back and forth to a standard window.

Command-tab maybe?

Oh, CCP Gangleri, any word on if that 44 pixels can automatically come back when I go from windowed mode to full screen?

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2012-01-14 21:23:55 UTC
Is 840 pixels wide enough to play EVE without the overview and, fleet and chat obscuring targets or clickablen space? Otherwise, 100% in support of the listed options: my main issues are running in windowed mode and losing access to menu options such as "invite to fleet" which are at the bottom of the context menus ( bizarrely, edit contact and other lesser used options are closer to the mouse pointer).

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Carinosa Peligrosa
Smath and Balt Holding Corporation
#16 - 2012-01-15 12:40:42 UTC
Infinite resolutions like on Windows (i.e., draggable window size).
Separate full-screen and windowed-mode resolutions.
Launch in windowed-mode (current behavior launches in full-screen mode, then switches to windowed-mode if that setting is selected. It steals focus and makes the computer unusable for those several seconds. Bad behavior!)
Save the layout of the screen between resolution switches, i.e., remember where things are for each resolution.
CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2012-01-16 14:03:28 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Is 840 pixels wide enough to play EVE without the overview and, fleet and chat obscuring targets or clickablen space? Otherwise, 100% in support of the listed options: my main issues are running in windowed mode and losing access to menu options such as "invite to fleet" which are at the bottom of the context menus ( bizarrely, edit contact and other lesser used options are closer to the mouse pointer).


You are quite right, the smallest horizontal resolution offered is 1024 so I edited the OP to reflect that.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Seamus Donohue
EVE University
Ivy League
#18 - 2012-01-16 19:17:06 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNilbBee70M

Too Long; Didn't Watch

Yes, cutting 44 pixels off each vertical resolution will be perfectly fine. I do have concerns about the new NeoCom because if the NeoCom is too thin, then the Mac OSX Dock might cover the NeoCom whenever the user tries to get to the NeoCom. But, because the Mac Sisi client won't work, I can't test this.

Survivor of Teskanen.  Fan of John Rourke.

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CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#19 - 2012-01-17 10:23:36 UTC
Seamus Donohue wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNilbBee70M

Too Long; Didn't Watch

Yes, cutting 44 pixels off each vertical resolution will be perfectly fine. I do have concerns about the new NeoCom because if the NeoCom is too thin, then the Mac OSX Dock might cover the NeoCom whenever the user tries to get to the NeoCom. But, because the Mac Sisi client won't work, I can't test this.


I checked in the new Cider yesterday and am updating Sisi later today to that version so the Mac client should work again after that.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#20 - 2012-01-17 11:37:08 UTC
Adrenalinemax wrote:
What about an Open GL native game. ...


That would also allow easy ports of EVE for iPad or Android pads - that would just plain awesome ^^

Cider is not bad but slow :/
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