These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Null Buff Incoming
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#41 - 2012-01-12 00:53:49 UTC
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


I've managed to arrange it for literally years, so why not?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Born Again Gallente
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-01-12 00:56:53 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


I've managed to arrange it for literally years, so why not?

-Liang


I know nothing of this lavish lifestlye you apparently take for granted, so i'll take your word for it.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-01-12 00:57:52 UTC
Diomidis wrote:
I am kinda in favor of the AS boost, tho I do think some of them will get too good with the extra slots.
Tbh the only one that really needed it was the Retribution, and maybe the Wolf, as the lack of tackle for the first and tracking for the second one made them either useless or outclassed in many situations.

On the OP, the null changes are negligible IMHO, but they do add up to the whole blaster buff that it's not insignificant. I do doubt tho that will will start seeing more blaster BSs out there because of it. More Nagas and Taloses - probably.


agreed.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#44 - 2012-01-12 00:58:08 UTC
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


Offgrid booster I'm assuming. That's also how you get a 10km/s interceptor.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Cyzlaki
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#45 - 2012-01-12 00:59:41 UTC
I too, look forward to greater range on my blaster boats
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#46 - 2012-01-12 01:02:15 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


Offgrid booster I'm assuming. That's also how you get a 10km/s interceptor.


Yeah, and with links going the point range bonus goes well beyond lock range on inties. Kinda a wasted bonus tbh.

-Liang

* Unless you fit a scram too. AND YOU SHOULD FIT A SCRAM TOO

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-01-12 02:37:01 UTC
I thought this was a thread about Null?

Heavy Neutrons w/Null on a Thorax. With Sharpshooter V.

According to EVEHQ, optimal goes from ~6,468 to ~7,312 with my skills. Falloff should be about ~13,000? Not sure. I only have the falloff skill to IV, and I dont have the time or ability to do the math.*

Meh. So I can project an awesome ~250ish dps out an extra 1000 optimal and some damage an extra 3,000-ish falloff. Dont get me wrong, its nice, and I welcome it. I certainly dont think is going to make them OP. It does mean that at least with heavy Neutrons, and maybe Ions with a TE, I can project a little damage out to long point range. Not OPish I dont think. But I'll take it. The hulls with range bonuses - that will be a nice buff though.

* Note. I barely passed college algebra - and by barely I mean I had to go in the last day and beg the professer to give me two extra points because I had been accepted to grad school and wouldnt graduate without a litttle nudge. Use my numbers at your own risk. In fact, I wish someone would check them.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
ShadowFire15
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-12 05:56:19 UTC
came thinking this was about null sec buffing lulz...until i saw blasters and put 2 and 3 together

[i]Stan Smith had a snow storm over weekend guy was shoveling snow outside, so i shot him and mined the snow myself. concord never showed up. on an unrelated note, i have a court date next tuesday[/i]
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-01-12 06:15:00 UTC
reposting my post from the hybrid balance thread

Numbers pulled directly from Sisi
Gallente cruiser V
Sharpshooter V
Trajectory V
HAC V
BC V
Heavy Neutron Blaster II Null ammo
On a Thorax
6.3 km optimal
8.75 km falloff
+1 TE
7.24 km optimal
11.38 km falloff
+2 TE
8.18 km optimal
14.34 km falloff
+3 TE
8.89 km optimal
16.8 km falloff

On a Deimos (Optimal is same as Thorax)
6.3 km optimal
13.12 km falloff
+1 TE
7.24 km optimal
17.06 km falloff
+2 TE
8.18 km optimal
21.51 km falloff
+3 TE
8.89 km optimal
25.19 km falloff

On a Talos
12.6 km optimal
17.5 km falloff
+1 TE
14.49 km optimal
22.75 km falloff
+2 TE
16.38 km optimal
28.68 km falloff
+3 TE
17.78 km optimal
33.59 km falloff

On a Naga
18.9 km optimal
17.5 km falloff
+1 TE
21.74 km optimal
22.75 km falloff
+2 TE
24.57 km optimal
28.68 km falloff
+3 TE
26.67 km optimal
33.59 km falloff
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#50 - 2012-01-12 06:32:04 UTC
Well with any luck AF's go OP, then they boost Ewar frigs to counter, they go OP, they boost T1 cruisers to counter, they go flavor of the month, and finally they polish HAC's and sprinkle a new T2 type on top...well in magical Christmas land may be.





Also GASP* Null is now almost as good as scorch!!!!!!!! But for blasters, that don't have a huge range for a close up weapon.......as I'm now out of f***s to give, yup all gone.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Suzu Fujibayashi
Happy Dudes
#51 - 2012-01-12 08:57:38 UTC
This change will bring Null just in line with scorch respectively barrage which give 50% range bonus on optimal respectively falloff. And we all know that most of the range (maybe 90%) for lasers is in optimal and for projectiles in falloff. Null only gives 25% on total range.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-01-12 09:03:19 UTC
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?

add that they are doing this called "pvp"

they sit in amamake all day along,everyday
they have a gang up i quess always with a gang booster somewhere safe in the system

then use this tactic:
some frigs out for looking for preys if they find one and sure they are totally safe to tackle they broff in ts/corp chat so the others can undock and warp to the target , and blob kill it
if enemy somehow manages to suprise them with some friends and or a falcon:P they come to qq on forum how op ecm is, as it took away safe "pvp" from them :(

oh forgot they are flying long range frigs mostly so if enemy is stronger than expected they **** their pants and warp to safe /dock up

low sec pvp in its highest form:P

and somehow they think they can know what is op and what is up from balance perspective, dont mind to add in theoretical situations and sisi/test changes which havent came out yet , they know everything
so pls dont be a moron and dont oppose their believes , go support their posts it makes them feel good , they need it as they are not so favoured in other things in life , let them have this one ,even if we who actually pvp know their claims are not true
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-01-12 10:23:46 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
even if we who actually pvp know their claims are not true


You don't actually PvP.
Kingwood
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#54 - 2012-01-12 10:44:38 UTC
Diomidis wrote:
I am kinda in favor of the AS boost, tho I do think some of them will get too good with the extra slots.
Tbh the only one that really needed it was the Retribution, and maybe the Wolf, as the lack of tackle for the first and tracking for the second one made them either useless or outclassed in many situations.

On the OP, the null changes are negligible IMHO, but they do add up to the whole blaster buff that it's not insignificant. I do doubt tho that will will start seeing more blaster BSs out there because of it. More Nagas and Taloses - probably.


Some AFs will probably need to be toned down, and it remains to be seen how T1 cruisers will fare against them. Enyo is going to be really evil.

Regarding null buff: The Naga is absolutely outclassed by the Talos and does not really benefit from the null change. It's 6th mid slot is only useful for fitting a web (when blaster fit) or a TC/SB (when going rails) due to PG issues, and if you're fighting in full tackle range (with blaster fit) you'll be using AM/Void anyway. It's also slower, does less DPS and has less range than the Talos; it does have more EHP but that doesn't really matter in today's Eve.

Shield Deimos also benefits hugely from the null buff, and it's not insignificant for medium gun ships like the Thorax who are able to fit 2 TEs when going shield buffer.



tl;dr Null change is significant. Talos is epic.
Noisrevbus
#55 - 2012-01-12 13:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Kingwood wrote:

Shield Deimos also benefits hugely from the null buff, and it's not insignificant for medium gun ships like the Thorax who are able to fit 2 TEs when going shield buffer.

tl;dr Null change is significant. Talos is epic.


The cruiser-sized ships may be able to hit a significant breakpoint with the changes on a tracked up shieldfit, and they will surely benefit from it similarily to how the Zealot once benefitted from it. It's a narrow role however, it will never amount to what the Vaga achieve even if it recieves a similar or better damage-projection, and they will also run into the same problems the Pulselots did.

Fitting a point they will have the tank of a sniper at point-range, using them as sheer damage support will still give them an inferior defensive in every regard to proper nano-platforms and even if the Null buff would allow them 400 turret-dps (~50% F) @ point-range as opposed to 250 dps today - it's still going to be better (as damage-support) to hit 450 @ point-range and reach up with Rails, as opposed to reaching down. In today's environment all of that is pretty irrelevant though, with so much competent LR tackle and damage projection - there's no room for semi-competent midrange damage support. Razu and Lach profileration killed that ages ago, for better or worse.

Of course, Genos may be using Shieldmoses for solo-kite, at which point more is obviously better. Still, narrow.

The Null change is interesting on those Hybrids that have always scaled quite well to breakpoints: Heavy neutrons. Like Kingwood mentions, this change will benefit the Talos (Naga) and the Rokh the most - ships that already saw some peak of interest with Crucible. Similarily it will probably not be negliable for Megas, N Megas, Vindis and Hypes as alternate, for those who use them. Bigger is more, more is better. Maybe the Talos will get an alternate niche like the Tornado and Oracle.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#56 - 2012-01-12 14:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Kingwood wrote:
betting on whine threads about Gallente popping up 1 month after the buff goes through tho.


Look, CCP stated that they were going to 'fix' Gallente & Hybrids in small steps. This means we're likely to see some changes to those ships/modules in the next few releases.

The point of them not just sticking a massive load of FOTM-inducing changes onto these ships/modules in only one release is to prevent the problems and whining caused by changes such as the projectile&TE/TC buff.

Changing one ammo type a small amount is not going to ruin the party. Please stop whine-mongering.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Kingwood
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#57 - 2012-01-12 14:20:00 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
betting on whine threads about Gallente popping up 1 month after the buff goes through tho.


Look, CCP stated that they were going to 'fix' Gallente & Hybrids in small steps. This means we're likely to see some changes to those ships/modules in the next few releases.

The point of them not just sticking a massive load of FOTM-inducing changes onto these ships/modules in only one release is to prevent the problems and whining caused by changes such as the projectile&TE/TC buff.

Changing one ammo type a small amount is not going to ruin the party. Please stop whine-mongering.


Your definition of whining is as wacky as your list of ships the Cynabal can and cannot take on 1 on 1.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-01-12 15:20:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Alua Oresson wrote:
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


Offgrid booster I'm assuming. That's also how you get a 10km/s interceptor.


Yeah, and with links going the point range bonus goes well beyond lock range on inties. Kinda a wasted bonus tbh.

add here falcon for jam target + curse to neut it to death.....
bubbles to prevent from escaping....

Who the hell will use ceptors now?Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-01-12 15:32:30 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Alua Oresson wrote:
Born Again Gallente wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Just how much ISK do you think I'm talking about spending here? That's a purely named/T2 fit I'm talking about.

-Liang


What named/t2 disruptor is giving your AF a 38km point?

I mean, do you honestly want to start assuming forward tackle runs with ganklinks?


Offgrid booster I'm assuming. That's also how you get a 10km/s interceptor.


Yeah, and with links going the point range bonus goes well beyond lock range on inties. Kinda a wasted bonus tbh.

add here falcon for jam target + curse to neut it to death.....
bubbles to prevent from escaping....

Who the hell will use ceptors now?Shocked

no bubbles in noobsec
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#60 - 2012-01-12 17:08:00 UTC
Kingwood wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Kingwood wrote:
betting on whine threads about Gallente popping up 1 month after the buff goes through tho.


Look, CCP stated that they were going to 'fix' Gallente & Hybrids in small steps. This means we're likely to see some changes to those ships/modules in the next few releases.

The point of them not just sticking a massive load of FOTM-inducing changes onto these ships/modules in only one release is to prevent the problems and whining caused by changes such as the projectile&TE/TC buff.

Changing one ammo type a small amount is not going to ruin the party. Please stop whine-mongering.


Your definition of whining is as wacky as your list of ships the Cynabal can and cannot take on 1 on 1.


I see what you did there. Very clever. You mentioned whining not me, old chap.

My suggestions in the Cynabal thread were directed towards someone who is asking from the perceptive of not having flow one. I was merely saying that those ships could be a problem to an inexperienced pilot in one form or other although I accept that the title "cant' take" should probably have read "could be a problem". Beyond that, I'm not going to argue the detailed semantics of a 1v1 fight between two ship types because it is completely subjective to fitting, piloting skills, buddies showing up etc.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com