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POS fit feedback
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Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#1 - 2012-01-11 17:24:46 UTC
"Someone I know" is going into WH space for the first time with a small corp. Going to grab an empty C2 and set up residence. They don't want to go full bore the first go, but figured a small POS was both too easy to kill and lacked any kind of power/cpu for modules. So they're considering a medium tower. Here's the fit they've come up with:

Minmatar Control Tower Medium
Ship Maintenance Array [ 1 ] -- Online
Corporate Hangar Array [ 1 ] -- Online
Mobile Laboratory [ 1 ] -- Offline
Medium Intensive Refining Array [ 1 ] -- Offline
Ion Field Projection Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
Phase Inversion Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
Spatial Destabilization Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
White Noise Generation Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
Stasis Webification Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
Warp Scrambling Battery [ 2 ] -- Online
Ballistic Deflection Array [ 2 ] -- Online
Explosion Dampening Array [ 2 ] -- Online
Heat Dissipation Array [ 1 ] -- Offline
Small Artillery Battery [ 6 ] -- Online
Polymer Reactor Array [ 1 ] -- Offline
Biochemical Reactor Array [ 1 ] -- Online

The idea was to create kind of a D*ckStar with some mild GTFO attitude. The lab, hangar, and maintenence bay remain active 24/7 but the other modules are turned on/off as needed (swapping with the lab if necessary). To bring on the refinement array actually requires significant reduction in defenses and so won't be done without a fairly active presence.

Another consideration/assumption being made is that C2 wormholes aren't worth fighting for enough to spend much time attacking a POS for anything but lols so making it as boring as possible is the main consideration.

What are some thoughts here? Are the assumptions correct? Will it perform the task it was designed for? If someone wants to really tear it down, they have no defense fleet to bring in so it would mainly be a loss...will this thing discourage such attacks enough to make a profit? Is there anything missing? Are the hardeners a bad idea to be better replaced with ECM or something?

Tank is around 50%x4 resist with 42mil EHP...or so says EHQ.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-01-11 17:55:39 UTC
I know this is a wormhole venture, and perhaps your "friend" and their corporation don't have billions of ISK at their disposal... but I'm going to assume that this is intended to be long-term... and am planning the tower as such.


  • go large, or go home -- you'll be able to leave more stuff online, also more HP
  • minimally go 3/3/2/1 (EX/Kin/Therm/EM) on the hardeners, you'll have 57/57/57/62 resists that way (EX/Kin/Therm/EM), rather than your 43/43/43/50. (note, resists rounded down) .
  • Small batteries don't really have range (IIRC, you'll be fighting in falloff completely) -- Mediums will work better. Remember -- POS turret range is calculated from the tower, not the module. Furthermore, you'll want 12+ guns (as well as some offline reserves)
  • ewar and everything else looks OK, though as with the guns, offlined spares are pretty much a necessity. Note that with these, the range is calculated from the module rather than the tower.
  • Med Intensive array only has 25k m3 of space, whereas standard intensive array has 200k. Looking at Arkonor, that's 7 refines vs 62. Note that in either case, they top out at 75% efficiency (hard-coded 0.75x modifier), and have a base refining of 35%. Thus, in order to get your 75% yield, you effectively need all 5s across the board plus the beancounter implant. Medium cycles in 90 min, regular cycles in 3h. A Caldari tower (large) is better suited to having the standard Intensive refining array, as it has the most CPU (granted, you're going with JUST EHP as your defence -- in that case you can run 4/4/3/2 hardeners, and come out with 68/68/68/71 resists). TBH, the only reason to use this is to get the materials needed for a rorq.


The changes aren't "perfect" by any means, but some of them you will find to be improvements over the initial plan. Remember, you're in "nullsec", and capitals can be brought to bear (though, since we're talking about a C2, I believe the only way to get them there is by building them inside).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-01-12 00:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I used a large Minmatar tower (Domination actually) when I lived in a C2, so that I could do some industry, however I learned that was an extremely bad idea when the system was later sieged. Don't even bother with a medium tower.

We moved all industry to a large Caldari tower in the relative safety of hisec. Keeping BPO in w-space labs is not a good idea. Also, the labs mark you as a carebear and easy target for harassment (as do a refining array and visible Rorqual - always logoff in captials). The industry labs and arrays also mean the POS has fewer defences online.

We removed all reaction arrays, and setup a second POS, an undefended Gallente medium just for reactions. Nobody bothered it while it was online.

We replaced the main POS with large Amarr heavily loaded with laser turrets. Arrays on the main POS were kept to a minimum: two ship maintenance arrays and a x-large ship array (storage).

Assume everything you bring into w-space is a loss.

POS Setups: Jump Bridge/Cyno Jam/Reactions, Moon Mine/Mining, Labs, WH
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#4 - 2012-01-12 00:56:07 UTC
If you have a static hi sec exit, there is no need for a refining array. And yeah, I knew a group of wormhole mercs. If we found a medium tower ad you describe, it would be taken down or griefed.

My suggetion, start small. Spend a month raiding wormholes from hi sec or longer. Get everyone use to wormhole life, then use the isk made to move in a large pos.

This can also give you time to find a very nice wormhole to inhabit.