These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Put Racial Back into EVE

Author
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#21 - 2012-01-11 18:20:19 UTC
Roscada wrote:
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
blah blah blah

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


Put lasers on your typhoon and take it out for a fight. Come back and tell me again that the fitting restrictions you want aren't already in place.


pretty much this

OP, you are aware of a little thing called racial bonuses right?

I support the continued ability for stupid people to failfit ships because they can
this directly benefits killboards as well as providing the much needed occasional LOLOP
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-01-11 18:52:30 UTC
On a related note: today I mis-clicked in the market window and accidentally bought some t2 amarr drones.
After bursting into uncontrollable laughter, I was asking myself: why are those racial drone specializations there, when all you ever use is gallente and minmatar drones?
I think it would be very nice if racial drones could have a small bonus if they were used by the according ship.
And no, I am not a bitter T2 Acolyte BPO holder......

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#23 - 2012-01-11 18:59:17 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
On a related note: today I mis-clicked in the market window and accidentally bought some t2 amarr drones.
After bursting into uncontrollable laughter, I was asking myself: why are those racial drone specializations there, when all you ever use is gallente and minmatar drones?


Caldari are worth using, too.

Gallente drones = slow as hell, tanky, high damage
Minmatar drones = fast as hell, flimsy, good damage
Caldari drones = decent speed, good tank (mostly shield HP, good resists), better-than-Minmatar damage, cheap as hell

Amarr drones just suck. They're slower than Minmatar drones, have a little more tank, and have poorer damage.

Zimmy Zeta wrote:
I think it would be very nice if racial drones could have a small bonus if they were used by the according ship.
And no, I am not a bitter T2 Acolyte BPO holder......


You mean like the Helios has that useless 5% bonus to Thermal drone damage? I'm ambivalent about the idea. If it coincided with a nerf to the Gallente line of drones, particularly in tank, I'd be fine with it. It would completely wreck the Arbitrator/Pilgrim/Curse, though, as Amarr drones suck.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#24 - 2012-01-11 19:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
MadMuppet wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

/emote is guilty of PVE laser-phoon :3


You're guilt of fitting anything I think I still have the fitting for your combat Procurer.


CCP killed the possibility of my mining Aeon Cry

btw laser maelstrom works pretty much like a ******** Nightmare

The Drake is a Lie

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#25 - 2012-01-11 19:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Grateler wrote:


You can put lasers on a minmater ship and projectiles on amarr. They will however suck.



I'd prefer fitting projectles on any Amarr ship that's only bonus to lasers consists of the cap use bonus - same dps, lower fitting requirements, no cap use, better tracking and free damage choice.

Now I don't do it, because I can just as well fly a Minmatar ship with projectiles, receive an additional rof/damage/falloff+ a faster ship, but if I was forced to fly e.g. a punisher, maller or prophecy, I'd fit it with autocannons rather than lasers.

Even Artie-Baddons have their uses, regardless of the abaddons laser damage bonus - and don't get me started on projectile-myrms...

I like that variety, but granted - under most circumstances, a ships native races weapon system should be best, which is not the case for any Gallente/Amarr turretship that doesn't have a bonus on their guns other than a cap conusmption bonus - but that's just a problem with projetiles courrently that doesn't warrant anything the OP suggests.

As for drones: Gallente are the most drone-focused race - the other races using them are fine - especially the large drone bays on Tier 1 BS - if there wasn't it wouldn't make any sense at all to train heavies/sentries as Amarr/Minmatar unless flying a carrier.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#26 - 2012-01-11 19:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Grateler wrote:


You can put lasers on a minmater ship and projectiles on amarr. They will however suck.



I'd prefer fitting projectles on any Amarr ship that's only bonus to lasers consists of the cap use bonus - same dps, lower fitting requirements, no cap use, better tracking and free damage choice.



Punisher.....\o/
Maller.........\o/
Prophecy....\o/
Abaddon.....\o/......wait a second.....DO IT ANYWAY \o/
(Actually apoc works cause it has no dmg bonus, just range hehe)

The Drake is a Lie

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#27 - 2012-01-11 20:23:31 UTC
I "liked" a Destination Skillqueue post! Yay'z for me!

Oh, and OP, you idea is bad, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

-1.

Ni.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#28 - 2012-01-11 20:29:46 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Grateler wrote:


You can put lasers on a minmater ship and projectiles on amarr. They will however suck.



I'd prefer fitting projectles on any Amarr ship that's only bonus to lasers consists of the cap use bonus - same dps, lower fitting requirements, no cap use, better tracking and free damage choice.



Punisher.....\o/
Maller.........\o/
Prophecy....\o/
Abaddon.....\o/......wait a second.....DO IT ANYWAY \o/
(Actually apoc works cause it has no dmg bonus, just range hehe)


Meh, I only ever put autos on those when I want a super-emphasis on tank. Lasers may have lower "paper DPS" (what's displayed in EFT) but they have far better damage projection at range.

If you can keep range, fit lasers. If not, (and your role is not just the fleet's brick) then stop flying Amarr.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2012-01-11 21:39:04 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Amarr drones just suck. They're slower than Minmatar drones, have a little more tank, and have poorer damage.



Amarrian drones aren't slow - they move with dignity.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#30 - 2012-01-11 21:42:22 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Amarr drones just suck. They're slower than Minmatar drones, have a little more tank, and have poorer damage.



Amarrian drones aren't slow - they move with dignity.


They are most definitely not slow. You might be on to something there. At any rate, I would like to see more shiny lasers on drones, so I made a F&I thread about it, so as to not derail this one.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#31 - 2012-01-11 22:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Grateler wrote:


You can put lasers on a minmater ship and projectiles on amarr. They will however suck.



I'd prefer fitting projectles on any Amarr ship that's only bonus to lasers consists of the cap use bonus - same dps, lower fitting requirements, no cap use, better tracking and free damage choice.



Punisher.....\o/
Maller.........\o/
Prophecy....\o/
Abaddon.....\o/......wait a second.....DO IT ANYWAY \o/
(Actually apoc works cause it has no dmg bonus, just range hehe)


Meh, I only ever put autos on those when I want a super-emphasis on tank. Lasers may have lower "paper DPS" (what's displayed in EFT) but they have far better damage projection at range.

If you can keep range, fit lasers. If not, (and your role is not just the fleet's brick) then stop flying Amarr.



Actually - they have the same 'paper dps' with better damage projection at certain ranges with certain crystals, which is about the only advantage against all the above drawbacks.

As for 'paper dps' - the actually applied dps are lower when eg using a laser punisher vs an AC (bleeder) punisher when getting in close thanks to lasers worse tracking and it's less susceptible to neuting, can neut better etc... etc...

I know what I'd pick, but to each his own...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-01-11 22:39:49 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


That you should do us all a favor and stop posting Features and Ideas threads in GD, or better yet, stop posting period.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#33 - 2012-01-11 22:46:34 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:

Actually - they have the same 'paper dps' with better damage projection at certain ranges with certain crystals, which is about the only advantage against all the above drawbacks.

As for 'paper dps' - the actually applied dps are lower when eg using a laser punisher vs an AC (bleeder) punisher when getting in close thanks to lasers worse tracking and it's less susceptible to neuting, can neut better etc... etc...

I know what I'd pick, but to each his own...


That's why I said, if you can't keep range, don't use lasers. The Punisher is a bit of a poor ship just because it can't keep range properly to make its lasers work in frigate fights. Coercer, on the other hand, can be far more powerful than the Thrasher, even if the Thrasher has higher 'paper DPS', because the Coercer can project its damage to 20 km and can swap out crystals if the target gets closer.

I agree though, if it weren't for Scorch, lasers (at least, pulse lasers) would be a sad excuse for a weapon system.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Cyzlaki
SEAGULL ENJOYMENT AUTHORITY
S0ns Of Anarchy
#34 - 2012-01-11 22:49:28 UTC
Yeah let's limit our options, that would be so much more interesting and tactical!

Moron.
Ghoest
#35 - 2012-01-12 00:30:38 UTC
Human races were the worst design featue of original EVE. There were other mistakes but it was easier to remove them.
All CCP can do about races is pretend they dont really exist and talk about empires instead.


Empire wars >>>>>> Race wars

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-01-12 01:28:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Conrad Makbure
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
Some time ago I decided that I wanted to play with drones more than I currently did – so aside from buffing my drone skills a little, the big question was should I train Gallente ships? But I realized I could get a decent drone bay with a Typhoon and fly drones immediately. This is a long way of saying that almost every race/ship can currently use almost every weapon system – and this is boring. If I want to put lasers on Minmatar, I can. If I want to put projectile on Caldari, I can. What’s the point when almost every race/ship can use almost every weapon system?

It would be so much more interesting (especially on the tactics level) if only one race could use a given type of weapon system, i.e. lasers can’t be put on anything but Amarr, projectiles only on Minmatar, missiles only on Caldari, and hybrids only on Gallente. Drones can be handled in a similar manner but slightly differently – Gallente are the only race with ‘large’ drone bays, other races are limited to drone bays with at most 5 drones and maybe also limited by drone size, i.e. only heavy drones on Battleships. Carriers and Super Carriers are a little tougher if you limit them to only Gallente – but this only means you give at least one of the races a specialized capital ship that can counter a carrier – whatz wrong with a very fast high accuracy projectile capital? And there’s no reason that all races should be able to counter a carrier/super-carrier – maybe only Amarr can, and only Minmatar can counter that Amarr specialized ship, and only Caldari can counter ….. I’m not trying to promote/advocate Gallente or drones – I can’t even fly Gallente. I am promoting the idea that each race have a very distinctive superior in a given type of weapon system. Maybe Amarr BS need to be able to lauch bombs and everyone else is limited to frigates, maybe Minmatar BS need to be able to do EW while the others can’t or can only do it poorly.

I grant you that this would make a radical change in game-play, but the idea is to make each race much more specialized in terms of offensive weapons, and to counter one race you need to fly a specific other race, or to significantly complement a race you need to fly a specific third race. This is not Factional Warfare but it is more Role Playing – and if you’re not role-playing why have more than one race?

But I can hear the howls of protest now …. but I’ve trained so much that I wouldn’t be able use anymore … but there’s no reason to do that … but, but, but. There’s always a reason to not do something, but I think there’s a darn good reason to make each race very distinctive.

So allow a one-time skill point reallocation. Got a boat-load of SP in ships for all 4 races but none of them are outstanding? Keep it that way it you want – or de-allocate some/all your SP and get instant-skill-point-allocation-learning for a very customized character in one or two races. Want to specialize in one particular type of game/role-play but don’t want to start from scratch to train frigate-to-battleship for a particular race to get there? One time de-allocate and reallocate your SP.

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


When I saw "racials" I was thinking something like "Gallente: +1% to hybrid turret rate of fire"..... what the hell is all this ****? That's supposed to be balanced?
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-01-12 08:55:13 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
Some time ago I decided that I wanted to play with drones more than I currently did – so aside from buffing my drone skills a little, the big question was should I train Gallente ships? But I realized I could get a decent drone bay with a Typhoon and fly drones immediately. This is a long way of saying that almost every race/ship can currently use almost every weapon system – and this is boring. If I want to put lasers on Minmatar, I can. If I want to put projectile on Caldari, I can. What’s the point when almost every race/ship can use almost every weapon system?

It would be so much more interesting (especially on the tactics level) if only one race could use a given type of weapon system, i.e. lasers can’t be put on anything but Amarr, projectiles only on Minmatar, missiles only on Caldari, and hybrids only on Gallente. Drones can be handled in a similar manner but slightly differently – Gallente are the only race with ‘large’ drone bays, other races are limited to drone bays with at most 5 drones and maybe also limited by drone size, i.e. only heavy drones on Battleships. Carriers and Super Carriers are a little tougher if you limit them to only Gallente – but this only means you give at least one of the races a specialized capital ship that can counter a carrier – whatz wrong with a very fast high accuracy projectile capital? And there’s no reason that all races should be able to counter a carrier/super-carrier – maybe only Amarr can, and only Minmatar can counter that Amarr specialized ship, and only Caldari can counter ….. I’m not trying to promote/advocate Gallente or drones – I can’t even fly Gallente. I am promoting the idea that each race have a very distinctive superior in a given type of weapon system. Maybe Amarr BS need to be able to lauch bombs and everyone else is limited to frigates, maybe Minmatar BS need to be able to do EW while the others can’t or can only do it poorly.

I grant you that this would make a radical change in game-play, but the idea is to make each race much more specialized in terms of offensive weapons, and to counter one race you need to fly a specific other race, or to significantly complement a race you need to fly a specific third race. This is not Factional Warfare but it is more Role Playing – and if you’re not role-playing why have more than one race?

But I can hear the howls of protest now …. but I’ve trained so much that I wouldn’t be able use anymore … but there’s no reason to do that … but, but, but. There’s always a reason to not do something, but I think there’s a darn good reason to make each race very distinctive.

So allow a one-time skill point reallocation. Got a boat-load of SP in ships for all 4 races but none of them are outstanding? Keep it that way it you want – or de-allocate some/all your SP and get instant-skill-point-allocation-learning for a very customized character in one or two races. Want to specialize in one particular type of game/role-play but don’t want to start from scratch to train frigate-to-battleship for a particular race to get there? One time de-allocate and reallocate your SP.

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


heh, you might get support for this idea from quite a few folks, just because they want the free skillpoint re-allocation Pirate

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-01-12 08:58:29 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

/emote is guilty of PVE laser-phoon :3


You're guilt of fitting anything I think I still have the fitting for your combat Procurer.


CCP killed the possibility of my mining Aeon Cry

btw laser maelstrom works pretty much like a ******** Nightmare


I wanted a mining Aeon too. Cry

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Previous page12