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RMT and Null Sec Alliances
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Fiori 161
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-01-11 14:28:14 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
People behave out of self interest.

If people are running around hunting bots and sabotaging them in other places than where they live, you have to ask yourself, "What is their motivation?"




A fair playing field in a game that we pay our own real money for?


Is that some kind of mysterious motivation that requires an enigmatic psychological motivation ? Ugh
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-01-11 14:43:26 UTC
As a wormholer we sometimes jump into deep nullsec with fleets of these miners who instantly log off. We see them on d-scan and then their gone off local and d asap. Are they bots? probably but its difficult to prove. Remember bots provide CCP with extra revenue. The fact they refuse almost entirely to even talk about bots is a good indication there not allowed to talk about them.

If they knew botting was a tiny small problem they would announce this and show how they know.

Just try and put yourself in their shoes. You options include:

1. Announce its a problem and spend man-hours dealing with it.
2. Dont talk about It at all and continue gaining revenue for all the extra accounts.
3. Announce its not a problem and hope not to get caught out and lose trust from the player base.

Which option would you choose if your a profit making company?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2012-01-11 14:51:07 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
As a wormholer we sometimes jump into deep nullsec with fleets of these miners who instantly log off. We see them on d-scan and then their gone off local and d asap. Are they bots? probably but its difficult to prove. Remember bots provide CCP with extra revenue. The fact they refuse almost entirely to even talk about bots is a good indication there not allowed to talk about them.

If they knew botting was a tiny small problem they would announce this and show how they know.

Just try and put yourself in their shoes. You options include:

1. Announce its a problem and spend man-hours dealing with it.
2. Dont talk about It at all and continue gaining revenue for all the extra accounts.
3. Announce its not a problem and hope not to get caught out and lose trust from the player base.

Which option would you choose if your a profit making company?


CCP has chosen number 1
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#44 - 2012-01-11 14:54:49 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
As a wormholer we sometimes jump into deep nullsec with fleets of these miners who instantly log off. We see them on d-scan and then their gone off local and d asap. Are they bots? probably but its difficult to prove.



:facepalm:

A guy that watches local and log off or warps off his expensive hulk when non-blues enter isnt a bot mate. Its called survival instinct. If he mines 23/7 however, you have a case.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#45 - 2012-01-11 14:57:56 UTC
If you google EVE ISK you wil find many sites that deal in a form of RMT. Most of the ones you see on page one google are bait sites. They are actually pretty easy to spot. Not only do they fail to compete with plex and GTC, you are caught 100% of the time. The real ones sneak in to help channel every once in a while. They offer ISK at around half or less what it costs to Plex ISK but that's all small potato. If you can turn EVE or better, WoW into ad revenue from third party sites you stand to make a boatload more money and you don't really stand out on the radar. How many people make money selling forums and TS clients and Alliance websites for MMO's? That is RMT. That is the RMT that promotes behaviour in games.
lior narkis
Massive Dynamic weapons
#46 - 2012-01-11 15:02:04 UTC
Isnt it quite pitiful to bot for ore? I mean the energy price for your computer is probably more expansive than your return in ISK. At least where I come from. Dunno about russia... :D
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#47 - 2012-01-11 15:15:29 UTC
Those nasty PVE fit ships hide when I want to **** them in their own systems. They must be bots X

But seriously I imagine there is some RMT going on in 0.0. Personally I have never heard of it or seen it within my alliance or its allies (or enemies for that matter). More often than not I see RMT accusations being thrown at people just becasue they happen to come from a certain part of the world.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#48 - 2012-01-11 15:44:19 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:


Your an idiot.





*"you're"


No, that would be you, I believe. Lol

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-01-11 16:26:42 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:

That's a logical fallacy. Logically speaking, you can say only, "Show and tell, or your accusations are unsubstantiated."

Which is fair enough, but it's not the same thing as disproof.


Typically in law, the one making an accusation has to provide proof that it's true. For example, if I start saying you enjoy intimate relations with sheep, technically my accusation is merely unsubstantiated (you can't prove you never have), but it's quite rightly worthless as an assertion unless I can prove it. Otherwise, all I have is a smear campaign against someone I dislike, attempting to use rumour and insinuation and constantly (as we see in this thread) dodging away from posting this supposedly ubiquitous and indisputable evidence.


FluffyDice wrote:
But seriously I imagine there is some RMT going on in 0.0. Personally I have never heard of it or seen it within my alliance or its allies (or enemies for that matter). More often than not I see RMT accusations being thrown at people just becasue they happen to come from a certain part of the world.


It's just another propaganda tool. Back in Morsus Mihi during the MAX campaign, the leaders would regularly get the grunts riled up with tales of how BOB was in bed with the developers and got BPO's printed on demand, of how they hacked forums and teamspeak, how they were out to make the game less fun. (See also how the Goons had "vowed to destroy EVE".)

And now, "everyone knows" that certain alliances have RMT factories working for them. How do they know this to be true? Because the forums keep saying it's true. I'm fairly sure that if you were able to trace the rumours back to their source, you'd find an alliance leader wondering how to motivate their people for another campaign.

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#50 - 2012-01-11 16:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
All true and the best place to hide the truth is in a pack of lies.

RMT is real. CCP know it, they just don't hava solution. I don't hold that against them. It doesn't mean I should just accept it though.
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-01-11 16:42:07 UTC
Skydell wrote:
All true and the best place to hide the truth is in a pack of lies.

RMT is real. CCP know it, they just don't hava solution. I don't hold that against them. It doesn't mean I should just accept it though.


Remember there's a difference between "RMT happens.", which I certainly believe, and the mantra that the Russians / Goons / Whoever are in on it and systematically profiteering.

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#52 - 2012-01-11 16:43:15 UTC
If there's big money in RMT, and those involved are of a criminal class, then actually doing something about it could get people hurt.

Which is probably the real reason why the game mechanics (local for example) never change that could put a hard hit on botting.

Instead, to counter RMT and bots, ISK faucets have been fully opened and left open.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2012-01-11 16:51:17 UTC
Cybele Lanier wrote:
Skydell wrote:
All true and the best place to hide the truth is in a pack of lies.

RMT is real. CCP know it, they just don't hava solution. I don't hold that against them. It doesn't mean I should just accept it though.


Remember there's a difference between "RMT happens.", which I certainly believe, and the mantra that the Russians / Goons / Whoever are in on it and systematically profiteering.


There are however some things that do make you think. Such as the missing trillions in the NC and WN bank accounts which cannot be accounted for.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#54 - 2012-01-11 16:52:32 UTC
Cybele Lanier wrote:
Skydell wrote:
All true and the best place to hide the truth is in a pack of lies.

RMT is real. CCP know it, they just don't hava solution. I don't hold that against them. It doesn't mean I should just accept it though.


Remember there's a difference between "RMT happens.", which I certainly believe, and the mantra that the Russians / Goons / Whoever are in on it and systematically profiteering.


EVE by its nature accomodates the RMT circles. Killboards, Teamspeak, Vent, GTC affiliates. EVE is the perfect nesting ground for it. You run web sites for a living, playing games all day is just a perc. Forcing 400,000 people to play in such a way that your services are in demand is second nature.
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-01-11 17:14:57 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If there's big money in RMT, and those involved are of a criminal class, then actually doing something about it could get people hurt.

Which is probably the real reason why the game mechanics (local for example) never change that could put a hard hit on botting.

Instead, to counter RMT and bots, ISK faucets have been fully opened and left open.


Got proof?

Skydell wrote:
EVE by its nature accomodates the RMT circles. Killboards, Teamspeak, Vent, GTC affiliates. EVE is the perfect nesting ground for it. You run web sites for a living, playing games all day is just a perc. Forcing 400,000 people to play in such a way that your services are in demand is second nature.


Got proof?

baltec1 wrote:
There are however some things that do make you think. Such as the missing trillions in the NC and WN bank accounts which cannot be accounted for.


Okay, that's something solid. Do you have some links about this story that would show systemic RMT in the alliance, rather than someone just draining the wallet and running?

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#56 - 2012-01-11 17:21:22 UTC
Cybele Lanier wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If there's big money in RMT, and those involved are of a criminal class, then actually doing something about it could get people hurt.

Which is probably the real reason why the game mechanics (local for example) never change that could put a hard hit on botting.

Instead, to counter RMT and bots, ISK faucets have been fully opened and left open.


Got proof?

Skydell wrote:
EVE by its nature accomodates the RMT circles. Killboards, Teamspeak, Vent, GTC affiliates. EVE is the perfect nesting ground for it. You run web sites for a living, playing games all day is just a perc. Forcing 400,000 people to play in such a way that your services are in demand is second nature.


Got proof?

baltec1 wrote:
There are however some things that do make you think. Such as the missing trillions in the NC and WN bank accounts which cannot be accounted for.


Okay, that's something solid. Do you have some links about this story that would show systemic RMT in the alliance, rather than someone just draining the wallet and running?


Prove I said it. Prove I'm me. Who am I?
Even if I could prove it, it isn't illegal. What's your point, Matlock?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2012-01-11 17:28:18 UTC
Cybele Lanier wrote:


Okay, that's something solid. Do you have some links about this story that would show systemic RMT in the alliance, rather than someone just draining the wallet and running?


Our corp ran several high up spies in the NC for years. Got wiffs and tidbits of it, money flowed out and several very rich people with access to wallets suddenly stopped playing but nothing solid. We knew it was going on and that the vast bulk of the NC were getting ****** over because of it.
Rize Overload
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-01-11 17:30:05 UTC
what evidence you need really?
theres tons of RMT sites selling isk and plex at half price.
how do u think they get it? of course from big alliances in 00.
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-01-11 17:33:40 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Prove I said it. Prove I'm me. Who am I?
Even if I could prove it, it isn't illegal. What's your point, Matlock?


RMT is against the EULA.

baltec1 wrote:
Cybele Lanier wrote:


Okay, that's something solid. Do you have some links about this story that would show systemic RMT in the alliance, rather than someone just draining the wallet and running?


Our corp ran several high up spies in the NC for years. Got wiffs and tidbits of it, money flowed out and several very rich people with access to wallets suddenly stopped playing but nothing solid. We knew it was going on and that the vast bulk of the NC were getting ****** over because of it.


Then you have records, and something other than hearsay? Otherwise, everyone will just take that for propaganda, intended to smear an alliance's reputation and encourage distrust between members. Like all alliances have been doing consistently for years.

Heck, your enemies are probably alleging the same things from "highly placed sources" about you. :)

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#60 - 2012-01-11 17:43:43 UTC
Rize Overload wrote:
what evidence you need really?
theres tons of RMT sites selling isk and plex at half price.
how do u think they get it? of course from big alliances in 00.


Go to any hisec ice system and count the macks and take names, go back any time of day every day and you still see the same names. Gank a few and watch their pods do teh same routine till DT.

Count the hisec systems with ice, multiply that by teh average number of macks in them, probably about half are bots. Multiply that figure by the hourly mining yield of a mack, multiply that by 23, multiply that by the average cost of ice.

Now tell me that nullsec is where the RMT isk is coming from. Dont beleive me? Go to Outuni and ask a question in local, somethign inocuous that lots of people could answer and see how many do. Bump a few macks around, gank a few. Go and test it out.

Nullsec is th eeasy scapegoat for most people who dont actually live there, hisec is botting heaven not nullsec.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.