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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Can we at least all agree?
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Valei Khurelem
#1 - 2012-01-11 07:36:24 UTC
That more player input is needed for this game to make a difference in how much ISK you make etc.? I mean come on, why not reward the actual players somehow for playing the game normally instead of using bots like everyone else.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Isabelle Evotori
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-01-11 08:24:00 UTC
ok....how would you be implementing this then?
Valei Khurelem
#3 - 2012-01-11 09:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Have things like some sort of aiming going on? One idea I had for mining a least was precision lasers, so while you mined regularly the rock would get smaller and begin to break apart as you mined and you'd right click precision lasers over minerals that appear after each stage and give you a bonus to your mining amount or better yet. Simply makes the mining process far quicker and gives you more of the asteroids ore every time you shoot at the shiny bits of the rock that appear similar to a puzzle game.

Actually I've been wondering if I should sketch out the idea perhaps -_-

EDITED FOR BELOW POST: If players were using this then GM's would be able to spot bots more easily because bots wouldn't be clever enough to aim at the points.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#4 - 2012-01-11 09:34:06 UTC
so you want a module that rewards active participation but that anyone that uses is suspected of botting?
Valei Khurelem
#5 - 2012-01-11 09:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m602/Lethn/EVEOnlineMiningideacopy1.jpg

okay here's my sketched out idea, this will explain things better I think, I'd have it where you could operate two at once as well, use both mouse buttons perhaps to get at the ore veins, but it could go either way depending on what people would want it to be like.

Maybe it could be tiny nanobots or mining drones that go up close to the asteroids firing lasers and in order to activate the precision mining laser you have to be zoomed in on the asteroid.

Edit: I just realised I misspelled shiny on the damn sketch but oh well :p

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-01-11 11:21:38 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
EDITED FOR BELOW POST: If players were using this then GM's would be able to spot bots more easily because bots wouldn't be clever enough to aim at the points.


Yes, a requirement for aiming makes bots unusable... That's why there's no such thing as aimbots for FPS games.

Sigh...

Any mindless repetitive task should be automated, the fact that mining isn't is simply down to it being the first form of resource gathering to be implemented during CCP's bright wide-eyed innocent youth at the very start of the game. So players have automated it themselves and CCP don't ban them en-mass because who the hell is going to keep the economy running by actually spending time mining?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-01-11 12:11:52 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m602/Lethn/EVEOnlineMiningideacopy1.jpg

okay here's my sketched out idea, this will explain things better I think, I'd have it where you could operate two at once as well, use both mouse buttons perhaps to get at the ore veins, but it could go either way depending on what people would want it to be like.

Maybe it could be tiny nanobots or mining drones that go up close to the asteroids firing lasers and in order to activate the precision mining laser you have to be zoomed in on the asteroid.

Edit: I just realised I misspelled shiny on the damn sketch but oh well :p


Don't people who mine tend to multibox, or to do other things while their lasers are going? Why do you want to make it impossible to go watch TV, or go make a cup of tea or whatever it is miners do?



Also, this would be botted in 0.005 seconds.
Valei Khurelem
#8 - 2012-01-11 12:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Yeah, but the only problem with giving in and making it happen so that it's easier for everyone to either bot or macro is that people ( Mainly 0.0 alliances and vets ) will whine about how they had to work hard and how we just don't want to work in order to get anywhere in the game.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Project 69
Aurora Coalition
Synergy of Support
#9 - 2012-01-11 12:13:52 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
EDITED FOR BELOW POST: If players were using this then GM's would be able to spot bots more easily because bots wouldn't be clever enough to aim at the points.


Yes, a requirement for aiming makes bots unusable... That's why there's no such thing as aimbots for FPS games.

Sigh...

Any mindless repetitive task should be automated, the fact that mining isn't is simply down to it being the first form of resource gathering to be implemented during CCP's bright wide-eyed innocent youth at the very start of the game. So players have automated it themselves and CCP don't ban them en-mass because who the hell is going to keep the economy running by actually spending time mining?


I'm pretty sure if the Tritanium prices explode, some will jump into their Barges of death and mine.
it's just not worth the effort atm
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#10 - 2012-01-11 12:49:49 UTC
I like the idea of where this could lead. if when you activate your laser you are required to "aim it" this would not take all that much more time. maybe a balance to this would be to increase the general size of astroids, so you can mine longer off one aim. this would greatly decrease botting yeilds if they aim poorly. and personally i think mining yeilds should be increased, even despite all the arguments ive heard about how this would not benefit the masses.

although someone might have made a good point; botters might be able to exploit this as well. i'm not a programmer, nor do i know how botting really works, so im not sure. but i remember somewhere that someone mentioned that bots can pass those spell test things; where you have to spell a random set of numbers for security purposes (kinda scary if they can).

and if you support the idea of allowing people to not have to be as active in the mindless aspects of eve, then help support this thread and similar threads.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40307
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=569971#post569971
Valei Khurelem
#11 - 2012-01-11 12:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
One thing that might work is if you use up some kind of secondary capacitor for each one you get wrong, maybe that will be a way to stop bots if they just shoot randomly or something but anyway, that's one idea I've had for making mining more fun.

p.s. If CCP don't put this in I'll just take it and use it for when I get a games company up and running and make a sandbox sci-fi MMORPG :P

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-01-11 13:21:56 UTC
Mining can be a relaxing passive activity that you can accomplish while paying attention to things that are fun (such as p0rn or forums, or watching the grass grow on your lawn), only paying attention occasionally to move your ore into a can or lock another rock, while watching local if you're dumb enough to mine in nullsec.

People in this thread want to change mining so that it requires the player to pay constant attention to the process of aiming at silvery bits on asteroids. They want the player paying full attention to and spending their energy performing a menial repetitive task that bots have been fully capable of successfully accomplishing since the first multi-player first-person-shooters.

People somehow think that this will reduce botting, I think being forced to aim at silvery bits on asteroids will drive more people to set up bots, bots programmed to aim at silvery bits on asteroids.
Valei Khurelem
#13 - 2012-01-11 13:26:04 UTC
..... So making the game more fun and interactive while making it reward you more for using the new feature and making mining an actual faster process is some how a bad thing?

IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DAMN THE PERSON WHO MADE THIS THREAD!

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-01-11 13:58:48 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
..... So making the game more fun and interactive while making it reward you more for using the new feature and making mining an actual faster process is some how a bad thing?

IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DAMN THE PERSON WHO MADE THIS THREAD!


Do me a favour, open this image in MS paint and colour in all the craters red, using a 1px paint brush, then come back and tell me how much fun you had.

If your idea of fun interactivity is aiming at silvery bits on asteroids, then your opinion can be safely ignored.
Valei Khurelem
#15 - 2012-01-11 14:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
People like you are why MMORPGs suck, ever heard of a game called Crayon Physics Deluxe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkacGQKWec

if you really feel that you have to 'accomplish' something in a video game of all things, you need your life sorting out, games are supposed to be fun, if they are tedious and boring and you have to treat them like a job then they are not games, it is that simple.

It's far better doing this and being rewarded for it properly than clicking icons and tediously waiting for the mining cycle to finish.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#16 - 2012-01-11 14:54:52 UTC
Did i just see human interaction with a game, followed by "bots not being clever enough to aim at the points"

I've been in FPS all of my Gaming life!
From Doom, Quake World, Counter Strike, Quake Live, Battlefield 3 etc...
Even on a professional level...

Each and everyone of them requires human interaction, physical input to the game to tell the code where to fire and where to do the damage...

Please tell me which one of these hasn't been hacked, as even Quake Live and Battlefield 3 today, has people who use Aim Bots to climb to the top of score boards.

This would never work in eve for the same reason. Never know, if walking in stations comes up with guns to kill other podlings walking around, then there's a chance for aim bots!


The only time there is no aim bots, is on a professional level where REAL money is involved and match's have multiple administrators observing every detail! which again would never happen in Eve.
Valei Khurelem
#17 - 2012-01-11 15:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
So then you have your answer, legalise botting and let CCP code it themselves so honest players don't get punished if they give up and go with the rest of the crowd. Or reward the honest players who actually play the game in ways like this. As it stands now and in pretty much all MMORPGs most botters get off with nothing and the honest players are left having to grind there way through everything having barely any fun at all.

As much as I don't like the idea, I think if CCP legalised botting they not only would make more money, but could focus on fixing problems with the game and banning exploiters etc. that damage the game more than bots do.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#18 - 2012-01-11 15:51:03 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
So then you have your answer, legalise botting and let CCP code it themselves so honest players don't get punished if they give up and go with the rest of the crowd. Or reward the honest players who actually play the game in ways like this. As it stands now and in pretty much all MMORPGs most botters get off with nothing and the honest players are left having to grind there way through everything having barely any fun at all.

As much as I don't like the idea, I think if CCP legalised botting they not only would make more money, but could focus on fixing problems with the game and banning exploiters etc. that damage the game more than bots do.


Just continue to grind, and keep in mind, CCP are proud of you for staying loyal!

We love you CCP ^_^v
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-01-11 16:03:57 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
People like you are why MMORPGs suck, ever heard of a game called Crayon Physics Deluxe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkacGQKWec

if you really feel that you have to 'accomplish' something in a video game of all things, you need your life sorting out, games are supposed to be fun, if they are tedious and boring and you have to treat them like a job then they are not games, it is that simple.

It's far better doing this and being rewarded for it properly than clicking icons and tediously waiting for the mining cycle to finish.


Really? You're comparing your idea to Crayon Physics? In that game you're drawing shapes to solve a series of logical problems by being creative, any sense of accomplishment you get from that comes from solving the puzzles. In your idea you're aiming at shiny areas on a rock endlessly, all you have to look forward to is stopping. And that is why bots are still going to be able to do it better and longer than humans, they can aim at shiny things and they never get bored.
Valei Khurelem
#20 - 2012-01-11 16:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Mine is actually a simplified idea of shooting into the rocks like in Miner Wars, if I had my way entirely it'd be like that and you'd just use the precision lasers to get at the ore veins inside, I was referring to your thing about mspaint with Crayon physics deluxe, there's also games like Arx Fatalis and that other one I've forgotten which lets you paint your way through puzzles or something and then there's black and white 1 where like Arx Fatalis you could draw your spells on the ground.

BUT

You seem dead set against anything like that so now all I can suggest is legalising bots since there's no way CCP are going to be able to keep this gameplay the same forever because either the bots will take over entirely with or without CCP intervention or with it partially because it's the players own fault as they insist on cheating their way through the game constantly.

Believe it or not, I do agree with you, any repetitive or tedious task like this should be done by bots, but the problem is, this is a game, it should be fun, CCP shouldn't be creating pieces of software that are tedious and boring if they are a games company.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
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