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Login security, is a username and password enough

First post
Author
Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#1 - 2012-01-10 12:04:27 UTC
Hi I would like to raise the point as I have just had a month on Star Wars: The Old Republic and whilst I didnt reckon much to the game (and that is not what this thread is about) but there was one idea that they have implemented that I thought might be useful on EVE for CCP. They have launched mobile apps for both iphone / Ipad and Android platforms which generate tokens in the form of a 8 digit code which changes from time to time and this is synchronised with your online account so that to login you need a usernam, password and this code. Thoughts / comments?
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-10 12:05:35 UTC
How much money do you need to spend on security before you feel secure?

ATX: The best of the rest.

Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#3 - 2012-01-10 12:16:14 UTC
I'm not saying I have a problem with the current security, I thought it was a novel idea and it does take the security one stage further which can never be a bad thing.
Othran
Route One
#4 - 2012-01-10 12:18:09 UTC
CCP handed out tokens at Fanfest 2011.

As far as I am aware they are still as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Make of that what you will Straight
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-10 12:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Zowie Powers wrote:
How much money do you need to spend on security before you feel secure?


Give it a rest, this is actually a sensible and highly effective security measure.

World of Warcraft calls them "Authenticators." You can download a little app onto your Steve Jobs Hipster Phone, synchronize it with your account somehow (not sure exactly how that works), and from then on you have to enter the code when you log in. No one can log into your account(s) unless they physically have that little device sitting right there in front of them.

Also comes in the form of a cheap fob if you don't have a Hipster Phone or Robot-Themed Totally Not a Hipster Phone.

I think it's a great system and would be a fantastic feature for EVE.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-10 12:22:29 UTC
Username/password is enough as long as the users are not idiots.

I.e. never use the same password on multiple sites, don't visit "questionable" sites, scan any programs you download for viruses, never give your PW to anyone, never allow anyone else physical access to your machine.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-10 12:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Username/password is enough as long as the users are not idiots.


Incorrect. It is impossible to have too much account security. That's not debatable, sorry.

I'm not saying this is a NECESSARY FEATURE AND IT MUST BE IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY, but it would be purely beneficial.

Edit: Authenticator codes are typically optional by the way, I doubt CCP would force cranky contrarians or forum warriors to use them.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#8 - 2012-01-10 12:32:00 UTC
Othran wrote:
CCP handed out tokens at Fanfest 2011.

As far as I am aware they are still as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Make of that what you will Straight



What were they? Random number generating keyfob type affairs?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#9 - 2012-01-10 12:34:15 UTC
This token attempt at security would be entirely optional, right?
My phone is basic and off most of the time. I don't want to have to fiddle around with it and I avoid giving out my number unless absolutely necessary. Even then I read the small print to ensure I won't have idiots trying to phone me for some sales or marketing thing. If I want something, I know what it is and I know where to get it. I mute all video adverts and if something does get through to me, then I boycott it. Beyond a camera and maybe an alarm, I don't want any other rubbish on the phone that I use.

Finally, I keep my computer pretty clean, I know what processes are running on it and I know there is software that can fool the kernel, which is why I have other monitoring software and such that I run from time to time. I also don't go to sites that try to solicit me. If they contacted me, I don't go there. I try to stick to the main companies and to sites people use frequently.

TL; DR. It would be too annoying to use this security feature and I would log in less often to the point of probably just quitting.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-10 12:38:45 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
This token attempt at security would be entirely optional, right?


Yeah. Well, the pioneers of the technology (WoW and TOR) offer them as optional features.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
TL; DR. It would be too annoying to use this security feature and I would log in less often to the point of probably just quitting.


That's an awfully thin line between being willing and unwilling to play....

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#11 - 2012-01-10 12:42:31 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
This token attempt at security would be entirely optional, right?

TL; DR. It would be too annoying to use this security feature and I would log in less often to the point of probably just quitting.


It is optional on SWTOR, how CCP would see it I'm not sure, but your entire tirade then seemed to show two things; you think security is optional and, that you come across as being very naive about how computer security works. I for one like to protect my online identity and I think anything that can enhance that ability is a must....

I work in computer security, and the only secure computer anywhere is one that is turned off in a box in a locked room with no windows, security should not be optional
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-10 13:15:37 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Username/password is enough as long as the users are not idiots.


Incorrect. It is impossible to have too much account security. That's not debatable, sorry.


DAS IST NOT DEBATABUL UND DU VILL BOW DOWN TO ME.

Say... why don't you pay for all my authenticators? Because you seem to think it's fine and nobody should be allowed to not spend money on security they don't need, you should pay for it.

ATX: The best of the rest.

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-10 13:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Zowie Powers wrote:
DAS IST NOT DEBATABUL UND DU VILL BOW DOWN TO ME.

Say... why don't you pay for all my authenticators? Because you seem to think it's fine and nobody should be allowed to not spend money on security they don't need, you should pay for it.


Can you read?

First of all, it would be an optional system, as are the ones currently in place in the industry. Secondly, it wouldn't cost you a dime if you already own a compatible handheld device of some sort. Thirdly, the little keychain fobs are very inexpensive. They're like $10. Yeah, I kind of assume that people who can afford computers, an Internet connection and an MMORPG subscription won't be sent to the poorhouse by a one-time $10 fee that makes their account practically unhackable.

Also, the reason I was rude to you is that I've grown very tired of knee-jerk, negative, defense reactions to these sorts of threads over the years. It's a personal failing.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-10 13:23:07 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
Zowie Powers wrote:
DAS IST NOT DEBATABUL UND DU VILL BOW DOWN TO ME.

Say... why don't you pay for all my authenticators? Because you seem to think it's fine and nobody should be allowed to not spend money on security they don't need, you should pay for it.


Can you read?

First of all, it would be an optional system, as are the ones currently in place in the industry. Secondly, it wouldn't cost you a dime if you already own a compatible handheld device of some sort.

Also, the reason I was rude to you is that I've grown very tired of knee-jerk, negative, defense reactions to these sorts of threads over the years. It's a personal failing.



Yes I can read. I replied to your issue regarding the non debatability of the issue.
In your never ending quest to be right, you have chosen to decide I answered a different point and proceeded to berate me for something I didn't do. This is commonly known as the strawman argument and clearly defines the kind of person you are.

Following it up with a hypocritical "Can you read?" defines the kind of person you can never become.

ATX: The best of the rest.

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-10 13:25:06 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:
Yes I can read. I replied to your issue regarding the non debatability of the issue.


Apparently you can't read. I said it's not debatable that one can never have too much account security, and that's still true.

But I can tell u mad because I was mean to you, so I'll leave you alone now.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#16 - 2012-01-10 13:27:52 UTC
Listen, I like an easy life, really I do... I like being able to do what I want when I want with the minimum of hassle. It is just an unfortunate fact we have to take more care these days when using anything over the internet even if it is 'only a game'. As mentioned in the thread, the app version of the 'token generator' would be free as you would get the compatible app from your respective online stores, if you want the key fob type generator, I'd say take a 12 month subscription in advance and you get one free otherwise the SWTOR one is about 9GBP - not a lot of money for added piece of mind I think.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#17 - 2012-01-10 13:38:24 UTC
During the last fanfest an EVE digipass authenticator was handed out by CCP. They promised to have more info in the coming weeks/month but it seems to have been forgotten during the EVE Gate failure and the NEX raging that followed.

An Authenticor is an additional layer of security and I would be quite happy if I could get one to protect my accounts.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-10 13:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
During the last fanfest an EVE digipass authenticator was handed out by CCP.


It's good to know they're doing small-scale testing and are considering making them widely available.

This isn't just an issue of giving a person who's sloppy with their security (or even those who aren't) an extra layer of protection. It's also about denying hackers as many accounts as possible as a means of deterring them. The less hacking, spoofing and phishing attempts there are, the better. If just 50% of players start using authenticators, the bar of difficulty for hacking accounts would be raised considerably.

That's my opinion, anyway. Good security for a few is better for the many, too.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Mangua Desnart
Mangua Desnart Corporation
#19 - 2012-01-10 13:43:59 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
During the last fanfest an EVE digipass authenticator was handed out by CCP. They promised to have more info in the coming weeks/month but it seems to have been forgotten during the EVE Gate failure and the NEX raging that followed.

An Authenticor is an additional layer of security and I would be quite happy if I could get one to protect my accounts.


Actually Deviana, you raise quite a good point there with your very last word, most people have more than one Eve Online account and so this presents CCP with somewhat of an unusual circumstance, how do you protect multiple accounts with one authenticator, or would you be able to protect more than one account from an app version of the software, because you cannot install multiple instances of an app on a mobile device (to my knowledge - I am not a developer). This may be the reason why they have not said anything further on the subject since Fanfest...
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-10 13:47:19 UTC
Mangua Desnart wrote:
Actually Deviana, you raise quite a good point there with your very last word, most people have more than one Eve Online account and so this presents CCP with somewhat of an unusual circumstance, how do you protect multiple accounts with one authenticator, or would you be able to protect more than one account from an app version of the software, because you cannot install multiple instances of an app on a mobile device (to my knowledge - I am not a developer). This may be the reason why they have not said anything further on the subject since Fanfest...


They'd have to allow players to tie multiple accounts to a single authenticator, yeah.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

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