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Crime & Punishment

 
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Incursions: CCP is too slow - now we will act

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Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#361 - 2012-01-19 11:52:23 UTC
Here is my simple logic.

Running incursions helps me to buy PvP ships and participate in lowsec, nullsec and WH fleets with friends. There we kill and get killed. We meet new people and interact, experience new things and have fun.

More ISK -> more PvP -> more fun.


This is how I play this game called EVE. It is an MMO, and you can of course influence my gaming experience.


But it does not make you a hero.


Your 15 minutes of fame are ticking.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#362 - 2012-01-19 11:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Krissada
Frank Pannon wrote:
Here is my simple logic.

Running incursions helps me to buy PvP ships and participate in lowsec, nullsec and WH fleets with friends. There we kill and get killed. We meet new people and interact, experience new things and have fun.

More ISK -> more PvP -> more fun.


This is how I play this game called EVE. It is an MMO, and you can of course influence my gaming experience.


But it does not make you a hero.


Your 15 minutes of fame are ticking.


And you really think this is working as intended?
Should PVP'ers go back to highsec "safe space" to earn "PvP time" (let's be honest that's what ISK really is) before they venture out again?

Is highsec incursion not just a pit-stop for PvP'ers?
"I am going to highsec to earn some ISK before I can come back and lose more ships or whatever in dangerous space".

Is this really something you approve of? You don't think the most rewarding features should be in less safe space?
Where's your logic now?


Over my dead body.

Your lovely incursions are going down mate. YOUR isk making time is ticking off.
janzzen
unfair pleasure
#363 - 2012-01-19 12:12:26 UTC
Over your dead body?


Yes plz,

Cancel your sub, delete your characters and move away from this game that in your opinion sucks.

Find something more fun to do, if Eve is this bad to you, you realy realy need to do something else.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#364 - 2012-01-19 12:38:18 UTC
janzzen wrote:
Over your dead body?


Yes plz,

Cancel your sub, delete your characters and move away from this game that in your opinion sucks.

Find something more fun to do, if Eve is this bad to you, you realy realy need to do something else.


Make me quit, hunt me down, make me suffer and plead and beg and cry. Come on I dare you.
I never said the game sucks. Don't put words into my mouth. X
Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#365 - 2012-01-19 12:55:09 UTC
Krissada wrote:



Over my dead body.

Your lovely incursions are going down mate. YOUR isk making time is ticking off.



OK but why am I not raging about it but you?
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#366 - 2012-01-19 13:42:32 UTC
Frank Pannon wrote:

OK but why am I not raging about it but you?


I think you've misunderstood something about the term/definition of "rage".
I am amused and extremely satisfied with the results of this so far and we haven't even begun properly killing the incursions.

Please mate - if anything I am one of the most pleased about this.
Dzajic
#367 - 2012-01-19 15:23:32 UTC
Krissada wrote:
Frank Pannon wrote:
Here is my simple logic.

Running incursions helps me to buy PvP ships and participate in lowsec, nullsec and WH fleets with friends. There we kill and get killed. We meet new people and interact, experience new things and have fun.

More ISK -> more PvP -> more fun.


This is how I play this game called EVE. It is an MMO, and you can of course influence my gaming experience.


But it does not make you a hero.


Your 15 minutes of fame are ticking.


And you really think this is working as intended?
Should PVP'ers go back to highsec "safe space" to earn "PvP time" (let's be honest that's what ISK really is) before they venture out again?

Is highsec incursion not just a pit-stop for PvP'ers?
"I am going to highsec to earn some ISK before I can come back and lose more ships or whatever in dangerous space".

Is this really something you approve of? You don't think the most rewarding features should be in less safe space?
Where's your logic now?


Over my dead body.

Your lovely incursions are going down mate. YOUR isk making time is ticking off.


Rofl. That is how EVE has worked since people started using jump clones and alts. Poor suckers without any of those; stuck being rank and file troops in 00 are ones without isk to afford fun. Everyone who appreciated their time has had highsec money making alts; trade, invention, L4s... whatever. That is simply how EVE works for anyone with brains.

You can kill Incursions (I'd like to see your mom killing fleet attendance during weekdays in a month or two) but you will not change that. If you somehow manage to convince CCP to finally remove highsec L4s (that act alone would lose so many subs its not even funny to consider) people would go for exploration or trade or invention.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#368 - 2012-01-19 15:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Krissada
Dzajic wrote:
If you somehow manage to convince CCP to finally remove highsec L4s (that act alone would lose so many subs its not even funny to consider) people would go for exploration or trade or invention.


Oh you ******* imbecile.
How did this suddenly become a discussion about lvl 4 missions? Are you really that simple minded?
Find me a quote where I (me, myself and Krissada) state that I want lvl 4's moved to lowsec.

If I was a carebear, I'd be ashamed to be even in the same room as you.


I really do enjoy these futile discussions cause you will accomplish nothing of them. Continue talking mate, I wanna see if you can find arguments that are more useless that the ones you've already used.

"This is how it's always been so it should stay this way" <--- brilliant argument.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#369 - 2012-01-19 15:44:01 UTC
Anybody interested in buying the Corpse of all Incursion Runners fav Skunkworks Pilot?

Convo me ingame for Psychotic Monks Corpse..

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#370 - 2012-01-19 15:45:49 UTC
Frank Pannon wrote:
Here is my simple logic.

Running incursions helps me to buy PvP ships and participate in lowsec, nullsec and WH fleets with friends. There we kill and get killed. We meet new people and interact, experience new things and have fun.

More ISK -> more PvP -> more fun.


This is how I play this game called EVE. It is an MMO, and you can of course influence my gaming experience.


But it does not make you a hero.


Your 15 minutes of fame are ticking.




If you are losing ships so much that you have to milk a incursion, you might be better off reviewing the blob and get blobbed tactics that, for the most part, comprise a ship grinder.

I see it all of the time, people needing to rack up the ISK to "go PVP", and those few who do, because many will have only time to rack up the ISK, will pimp up ships and then lose them. Then they have to come back.

That type also thinks they need at least 50 million SP before they an qualify for the end all be all leet PVP world.

You are doing it wrong.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dzajic
#371 - 2012-01-19 15:50:50 UTC
Krissada wrote:
Dzajic wrote:
If you somehow manage to convince CCP to finally remove highsec L4s (that act alone would lose so many subs its not even funny to consider) people would go for exploration or trade or invention.


Oh you ******* imbecile.
How did this suddenly become a discussion about lvl 4 missions? Are you really that simple minded?
Find me a quote where I (me, myself and Krissada) state that I want lvl 4's moved to lowsec.

If I was a carebear, I'd be ashamed to be even in the same room as you.


I really do enjoy these futile discussions cause you will accomplish nothing of them. Continue talking mate, I wanna see if you can find arguments that are more useless that the ones you've already used.

"This is how it's always been so it should stay this way" <--- brilliant argument.



Can you talk without using insults and profanities?

You said that you will not allow anyone to casually fund their playtime and PVP by doing highsec incursions nor anything similar; as you don't want EVE to be that way. After highsec Incrusiosn are gone L4s are next step; there have been infinite number of "CCP nurf them" threads over the years; once Incursiosn are no longer interesting people will returning to whining about L4s.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#372 - 2012-01-19 15:51:24 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Krissada wrote:
Frank Pannon wrote:
Here is my simple logic.

Running incursions helps me to buy PvP ships and participate in lowsec, nullsec and WH fleets with friends. There we kill and get killed. We meet new people and interact, experience new things and have fun.

More ISK -> more PvP -> more fun.


This is how I play this game called EVE. It is an MMO, and you can of course influence my gaming experience.


But it does not make you a hero.


Your 15 minutes of fame are ticking.


And you really think this is working as intended?
Should PVP'ers go back to highsec "safe space" to earn "PvP time" (let's be honest that's what ISK really is) before they venture out again?

Is highsec incursion not just a pit-stop for PvP'ers?
"I am going to highsec to earn some ISK before I can come back and lose more ships or whatever in dangerous space".

Is this really something you approve of? You don't think the most rewarding features should be in less safe space?
Where's your logic now?


Over my dead body.

Your lovely incursions are going down mate. YOUR isk making time is ticking off.


Rofl. That is how EVE has worked since people started using jump clones and alts. Poor suckers without any of those; stuck being rank and file troops in 00 are ones without isk to afford fun. Everyone who appreciated their time has had highsec money making alts; trade, invention, L4s... whatever. That is simply how EVE works for anyone with brains.

You can kill Incursions (I'd like to see your mom killing fleet attendance during weekdays in a month or two) but you will not change that. If you somehow manage to convince CCP to finally remove highsec L4s (that act alone would lose so many subs its not even funny to consider) people would go for exploration or trade or invention.



The issue of where the ISK is made and why is a whole other topic, like those L4 missions. As addressed before, if you need a lot of ISK to PVP, you are following along an incorrect concept that PVP is like a hole in space in which you throw enormous amounts of ISK.
But the difference in high and low/0.0 is an older issue that is constantly addressed in other threads. The high need for ISK is a result of "cannon fodder tactics" whereby you blob or get blobbed usually for poor reasons. I suspect that if people had to be stingy with ISK PVP would become more interesting instead of rock, bigger rock, more rocks, even bigger rock, need more ISK.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#373 - 2012-01-19 15:55:15 UTC
Aine Ni wrote:
mirel yirrin wrote:
We can have a hundred fighting men and women in any area of space within two hours at any time, in any configuration of ship. You are a lunatic if you think otherwise.


This just proves how delussional, you envious people are Roll


+1 and as proof...

I am sitting in J104321 right now... you have 2 hours... hek, I'll give ya till down time... =]

Ahh.. "Pride goeth before another forum post"

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#374 - 2012-01-19 15:56:57 UTC
Dzajic wrote:

You said that you will not allow anyone to casually fund their playtime and PVP by doing highsec incursions nor anything similar; as you don't want EVE to be that way. After highsec Incrusiosn are gone L4s are next step; there have been infinite number of "CCP nurf them" threads over the years; once Incursiosn are no longer interesting people will returning to whining about L4s.


Quote:

Straw Man Argument: A subtype of the red herring, this fallacy includes any lame attempt to "prove" an argument by overstating, exaggerating, or over-simplifying the arguments of the opposing side. Such an approach is building a straw man argument. The name comes from the idea of a boxer or fighter who meticulously fashions a false opponent out of straw, like a scarecrow, and then easily knocks it over in the ring before his admiring audience. His "victory" is a hollow mockery, of course, because the straw-stuffed opponent is incapable of fighting back. When a writer makes a cartoon-like caricature of the opposing argument, ignoring the real or subtle points of contention, and then proceeds to knock down each "fake" point one-by-one, he has created a straw man argument.


I am talking about incursions. Nothing else.
Dzajic
#375 - 2012-01-19 16:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dzajic
So what level of income should Incursions be nerfed to for you to stop doing this? Just asking... What would according to you be ok payout per hour for highsec Incursions?

Edit.

Since you constantly keep challenging people to "do something about it" and "stop you".

And just how do you imagine anyone to do that?
Wardec BRICK? Even if some groups are rather willing, what would that possibly accomplish? You can't harm a lowsec living alliance. It'd be endless station games and avoiding BRICK hotdrops. And you can shoot us freely in high-sec so we can't do the isk making activity we are supposed to be "fighting for to protect". And most importantly; you can still use neutral fleets to kill moms.
Suicide gank your mom fleets? Yeey you've got kill-rights on me for a month; that surely helps me a lot.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#376 - 2012-01-19 16:48:06 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
So what level of income should Incursions be nerfed to for you to stop doing this? Just asking... What would according to you be ok payout per hour for highsec Incursions?

Edit.

Since you constantly keep challenging people to "do something about it" and "stop you".

And just how do you imagine anyone to do that?
Wardec BRICK? Even if some groups are rather willing, what would that possibly accomplish? You can't harm a lowsec living alliance. It'd be endless station games and avoiding BRICK hotdrops. And you can shoot us freely in high-sec so we can't do the isk making activity we are supposed to be "fighting for to protect". And most importantly; you can still use neutral fleets to kill moms.
Suicide gank your mom fleets? Yeey you've got kill-rights on me for a month; that surely helps me a lot.


The payout of the incursion is artificial. It's strung along because of a coalition agreement not to engage a legitimate PVE target (the Kundalini Manifest).

That target can be engaged by any crew looking to do so, but it comes up against a sense of entitlement by people who have zero control over the game mechanics.

Now if someone was levitating 20' off the ground and being smug about defying gravity, "look at me, gravity don't apply to me. I'm so leet!", would you not have some enjoyment in saying "hey, you can't do that. Laws of physics" - then watch their eyes bug out as they hit the ground.

So you have a target that can be engaged by anybody, people raking in big ISK saying "hey, you can't do that!" and why?

Because they say so?

There is a huge conflict in this world. It's a conflict between people who deal with reality and adapt to it versus masses of zombies who think that things are the way they are because they want to believe they are. Like little kids who think they can alter reality with their desires.

So when they come up with a sweet spot in a game mechanic and milk it for all they can get, and it comprises a huge bubble that ANYBODY can pop, what do you think will happen? And when said owners of bubble act like little spoiled brats about it, what else do you think will happen?

My beef with the incursion mechanic is that no other PVE content allows you to string it along for more ISK at will, and at the same time, give you a path of lesser resistance (easier sites with pimp ships). The elitism that perpetuates through the incursion community is also bothersome.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dzajic
#377 - 2012-01-19 16:51:24 UTC
I will kindly point you to CSM minutes where CCP and CSM agreed that sites actually already last too short (yeah, only a week) and that moms get vulnerable too soon. Take form that what you wish.
Shukuzen Kiraa
Wildlands Tactical Response Unit
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#378 - 2012-01-19 16:57:22 UTC
Lots of talk, still see no dent being made in Incursions. But that is to be expected from attention starved greifers.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#379 - 2012-01-19 16:57:41 UTC
Krissada wrote:


...And you really think this is working as intended?

…"PvP time" (let's be honest that's what ISK really is) before they venture out again?

...Is this really something you approve of?

...You don't think the most rewarding features should be in less safe space?



Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


...f you need a lot of ISK to PVP, you are following along an incorrect concept that PVP is like a hole in space in which you throw enormous amounts of ISK.



Need ISK to PvP is an "incorrect concept"? PvP IS a smoke filled HOLE in space where SOMEONES ship just was... and, unless they ragequit, needs now to be REPLACED... and that takes ISK.

Unless….
You have an invulnerable Hulk and Orca and you manufacture ALL your ships and mods yourself?
Or are you sooooo uber you NEVER lose?
Or are you just uber enough to lose only what you can replace through lewt and salvage?
Or.... do you buy your ships, RMT?

I’ve looked up a lot of people’s fight records... haven’t seen one yet good enough at PvP to not need ISK... most, even the good ones, lose ships and to replace em, they need ISK. It is the basis of the market.

ISK is the fuel that powers the PVP-E/Market/Industry/Mining/etc./etc. … engine that is EVE.... moar fuel = moar people who can 'afford' PvP and all the other things we do here. Hell even Krissada understand this, ISK = “PvP time” his/er words.

Yes, Krissada, I approve of the game mechanics "as they are' in EVE… You make ISK to be able to do the things you want to do ingame. PvP, explore, PvE, W-space, own a POS, null, or just sit in Jita and fatten yer wallet and never ever undock…

But here is the REAL issue, your real agenda stated clearly for all to see…

“You don't think the most rewarding features should be in less safe space?”

Hell no. I do not think anyplayer has the right to dictate to anyone else where/how the most rewarding feature in EVE should be.

How would you like it if the “Opt out of PvP” button people get their way? Or better, if they were able to force you to not have PvP as an option? If you got CONCORDED every time you attacked a ship NO MATTER where you are in EVE and you are left with just mining or L4’s or somesuch? What if they could force you to play their way?

Krissada… the issue here is you don’t like others doing something you don’t like. It has nothing to do with balancing, or fairness… it is about your dislike that there is anyone here who you can’t attack as you please. You and your ilk want null rules to be THE rules. Well, then make some MONEY, start a company, hire some devs and create and market your own MMO.

I guess it must be irritating for you though… sittin out there in lo and null… big ol deserts with very few players per square star system… and just over the horizon… the glow of the city lights of Empire just FILLED with people going about their business… and you can’t kill them as you please.

I am sure the real pirates back in the day… felt exactly the same when they looked towards England and France… from their lonely desert islands far, far away. They hated then, as you hate now. And for the same reasons.

GOD I love this game… =]

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#380 - 2012-01-19 17:01:23 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
I will kindly point you to CSM minutes where CCP and CSM agreed that sites actually already last too short (yeah, only a week) and that moms get vulnerable too soon. Take form that what you wish.


Again I will go for an ad hominem. This case because you have no idea what you are talking about. You sir are dumb.
Doing what we are doing requires insider knowledge about how incursions work and everything about this mechanic and this has taught us that:

What CCP and CSM is referring to in the minutes is that incursions last too short in terms of "when they can be killed" if it wasn't for the carebear NAP you have all setup. In terms of the influence and penalties being removed in less than a day from the incursion and then it is a pure safe heaven for everyone to come and earn isk.

That is what they are talking about. Not the "incursions should last more than 7 days".
Yet another argument of yours taken down to the ground. Oh please do keep going.