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Wormhole Combat Site and Anom Nerf?
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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#61 - 2012-01-26 09:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.

Theory of several members of my ex-corp:
-MNR's are worth 50% more than they were a year ago, they make up a much larger percentage of the ISK/hr of the site (instead of the blue loot).
-Assumption: you get a chance of a MNR per wreck type; it is independent of the site it is in (likely).
-You get more ships to shoot in a C1 than a C2 or C3 in a given time of play (fact)

This all leads to a possible conclusion: it's better to rapidly grind C1's than it is C2 or C3 sites. Just grab a Drake or two, target painters and swap a single purger for a flare catalyst, and you will make more in an hour from C1 sites than C2 or C3.

We never got enough data to prove this, but correcting for current prices I pulled 80mil an hour in a C1 with a single Drake.

C1 sites also get run A LOT by newer players day-tripping into wormholes, so you may find more consistency in supply, too. (greater respawn rate.)

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-02-24 23:40:39 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
These guys obviously have their ducks in a row and a solid background in statistics. I see no reason to try and refute their data.


[edit]

Just got 7 ribbons from a C1 WH site.

Theory of several members of my ex-corp:
-MNR's are worth 50% more than they were a year ago, they make up a much larger percentage of the ISK/hr of the site (instead of the blue loot).
-Assumption: you get a chance of a MNR per wreck type; it is independent of the site it is in (likely).
-You get more ships to shoot in a C1 than a C2 or C3 in a given time of play (fact)

This all leads to a possible conclusion: it's better to rapidly grind C1's than it is C2 or C3 sites. Just grab a Drake or two, target painters and swap a single purger for a flare catalyst, and you will make more in an hour from C1 sites than C2 or C3.

We never got enough data to prove this, but correcting for current prices I pulled 80mil an hour in a C1 with a single Drake.

C1 sites also get run A LOT by newer players day-tripping into wormholes, so you may find more consistency in supply, too. (greater respawn rate.)


Interesting theory. I think I have also heard similarities in other people's experience however I'm not sure if the Nano's are purely independent. wouldn't be too surprised however as from what I have explored, C1 planets are garbage compared to other classes.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-02-25 00:01:23 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Captain Evenwel wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Nanoribbons per wreck (and by extension, per site) is random. Random is random.

Now, the number of complete sites you get spawning in your WH per hour/day/week/month is entirely dependent on someone else doing them, somewhere else in that wormhole constellation.

If you couple this with the nanoribbon prices themselves, you come to one conclusion: people are not running as many sleeper sites.

And why would you? Capital escalation aside, you earn more per hour in a highsec Incursion.

WH space is very, very, very quiet since Incursions came around.


Again, there is no such thing as random. And there are no goons.

What you're referring to as random is an algorithm designed to reduce or rather to spread resource bias and local redundancies.

Big smile

No, it really is random. As in, there is a chance per wreck of getting a nanoribbon. There is no algorithm which tries to "spread" that randomness around, since random is random. Nothing affects the chance; it is random.

This exact topic has been debated on these forums since 2009 - someone new always pops up, claiming a "stealth nanoribbon nerf."

Incidentally, someone always pops up and says "since patch [name here] all my invention jobs are failing more ... stealth invention nerf?" No ... random is random.

No one has ever been able to prove it, other than "like, we totally used to get more dude!"

To prove a decrease, you will need to show some figures. Start ACTUALLY counting the ribbons per site.

n.b. at this point, it is much more likely that your salvager(s) are keeping some for themselves and claiming bad luck Lol



As an update, your argument might prove true. The few of us left just had profit go back to original levels about a week ago. We've been talking to some folks that have been looking into this for a while now. Apparently there might very well be some truth to it.

For now, I'll give you the fish of "OP is a wormhole troll" to slap around. While the market's 20-30% increase in nanoribbon prices was pretty solid evidence of a change, I'll see what I can get on this and if there is a correlation at all.

As for everyone else, hope all your sites are doing better. Let me know if you got any updates.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#64 - 2012-02-25 01:36:00 UTC
The market increase is a direct result of pvp.

Have you seen the tengu fleets that have been thrown around in the past few months and subsequent tengu losses? This means T3 ships are actually dying, which means NRs are going to be that much more profitable.

Its pretty simple: demand goes up and so does price.
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#65 - 2012-02-25 13:14:57 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
The market increase is a direct result of pvp.

Have you seen the tengu fleets that have been thrown around in the past few months and subsequent tengu losses? This means T3 ships are actually dying, which means NRs are going to be that much more profitable.

Its pretty simple: demand goes up and so does price.


Please, lose more T3's. And encourage your opponents to fly purely T3 fleets. It's good for my business. Big smile
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-03-01 14:52:18 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
The market increase is a direct result of pvp.

Have you seen the tengu fleets that have been thrown around in the past few months and subsequent tengu losses? This means T3 ships are actually dying, which means NRs are going to be that much more profitable.

Its pretty simple: demand goes up and so does price.


I have not actually, as again, I'm pretty strictly W-space. But that is very possible even if strange as the percentage increase has not been noticed in most of the dominant T3 categories as me and companions all fly T3's. As for "direct result"...in economics, really....?

Still interesting though.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#67 - 2012-03-01 17:32:27 UTC
Did the guy who doesn't have the faintest idea about probability and statistics really just try to edumucate me on economics?
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-03-29 02:00:22 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Did the guy who doesn't have the faintest idea about probability and statistics really just try to edumucate me on economics?


This is an open forum, you are welcome to edumucate me in anything you like or retort as you so wish. And yes, that guy with the faintest understanding of discrete calculus and probability suggested that your understanding of economics might just be limited to a High School Diploma as you simplified one of the most complex goods to create in the game to having a direct relationship with a single event in the game.

Out of pure curiosity, do you so much as participate in industry, T3 invention, or even w-space?
lordjanuss
Astrosphere
Fjordariket
#69 - 2012-03-31 11:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: lordjanuss
Just some words from fanfest 2012 , I was also on the roundtable WH :

- drop of Nanoribbons is the same as before, its confirmed. CCP just checked before the meeting.
- only smaller towers in C1 - C3 (suggestions)
- new sites will come in all types of WH
- looking on change sub. on tech 3
- looking on POS
- add more Wh ( this is my favorite )
- consensus in the room was to make it harder to live in WH. Twisted
- in general make it more dangerous to only have industry in WH


just my 2 cent.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-05-30 13:42:02 UTC
lordjanuss wrote:
Just some words from fanfest 2012 , I was also on the roundtable WH :

- drop of Nanoribbons is the same as before, its confirmed. CCP just checked before the meeting.
- only smaller towers in C1 - C3 (suggestions)
- new sites will come in all types of WH
- looking on change sub. on tech 3
- looking on POS
- add more Wh ( this is my favorite )
- consensus in the room was to make it harder to live in WH. Twisted
- in general make it more dangerous to only have industry in WH


just my 2 cent.


Thanks a lot Januss, good to have some real information on the forum. That would be fantastic to have some revamped POS's and industry functions in wh's. And I'm consensus with the consensus; ****, I'm glad we got good folks representing us up there. It definitely needs to be more challenging, but throw out some more bones. It gets dull in 1-4. Some exploration experimentation is what I'd love to see tried out here.

Again, much obliged for the information. Good post!
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#71 - 2012-05-30 14:50:02 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Solution would be to move to a real WH.
Nano drops from c1-2 sites are junk, always have been.

I disagree, I've made quite a bit of isk doing solo work in those classes.

The key is, SOLO. C1/C2 aren't well-suited to group work. You're never going to make enough isk to go around.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mysterious Assailant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-05-30 21:50:14 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Rythm wrote:
somehow chance of the drop depends on the speed of your salvaging.
looks like there's hidden variable which says that you cannot get more than X ribbons in Y amount of time.


^calling bullcrap on this...

Captain Evenwel wrote:
Profit is in the PI


^this made me spray my coffee on my monitor Lol
if you really think that is the case, you need to learn how to run WH sites.

perhaps you need to learn how to PI Lol
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-06-17 16:03:49 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Solution would be to move to a real WH.
Nano drops from c1-2 sites are junk, always have been.

I disagree, I've made quite a bit of isk doing solo work in those classes.

The key is, SOLO. C1/C2 aren't well-suited to group work. You're never going to make enough isk to go around.


Ha ha he, good to see a few folks who actually do this ****. I feel like whenever I talk about WH's it's like I'm talking to a bunch of philosophers talking about physics...they sort of got it...but they don't really study it or make it a living.

Completely agree. We only hold 3-4 folks in a C2 at one time, usually less and fairly casual. Even if you're inactive, just don't open the exits and you can stock up for days if not weeks.
Captain Evenwel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-06-17 16:04:54 UTC
Mysterious Assailant wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Rythm wrote:
somehow chance of the drop depends on the speed of your salvaging.
looks like there's hidden variable which says that you cannot get more than X ribbons in Y amount of time.


^calling bullcrap on this...

Captain Evenwel wrote:
Profit is in the PI


^this made me spray my coffee on my monitor Lol
if you really think that is the case, you need to learn how to run WH sites.

perhaps you need to learn how to PI Lol


Made my day X)