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Analysis of Sansha Nation Tactics

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-01-11 09:55:08 UTC
Iche He'Tvo wrote:
I have no wish to hear of anyone being forced into a life of mindless servitude without it being of their own choice and freewill, but then I am Minmatar.


That's an unusual and inappropriate selection of words and concepts.
If you imagine a human as a machine with a brain as a computer, this computer represents a hardware that makes you think, that defines you mental strength and talents. This 'computer' has some memory, where your experience is written and it runs a program that we will call 'you'. This program defines your emotions and behavior with respect to your experience. When Sansha captures you, they replace this program with their own, and this is as actually KILLING you.
You are not 'forced' to any kind of servitude, you will be dead and your body, brain and memory is used by another sansha creature.
If you think, that you may be still 'alive' as yourself inside sansha creature, that will cause split personality, a mental disorder. But from known experience sansha's drones don't show any signs of mental disease and are firm in their determination.
This leads to conclusion, that your consciousness, or your soul, that makes you yourself will be gone.
If you will be captured by Sansha, you will be dead.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-01-11 21:18:45 UTC
Again with the notion that some vast conspiracy is supporting Nation for economic gains... Lets take a moment to think about that shall we?

Clearly a Nation of cybernetic slaves doesn't need to be paid to work. Clearly Nation, being wholly outside of the SEC and Concord regulation need not worry about license fees, third party production costs, or taxes. And even if the whole of Nation save Kuvakei himself are nothing more than machines, why would a man with armies of obedient machines that can manufacture anything he wants, need money? If Nation consists of mindless augmented lifeforms rife with cybernetic implants and devoid of any semblance of free will, then why would they need money? Why would a Nation as you portray it ever bother to compromise and "hold back" in it's attacks for economic reasons when a Nation that has nothing but perfectly obedient workers and warriors simply has no economic concerns of that sort?

Quite simply you can't have it both ways. Either Nation is nothing but automatons and has no need of money, or Nation citizens have free will and require wages for their work.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#23 - 2012-01-11 21:26:58 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
Again with the notion that some vast conspiracy is supporting Nation for economic gains... Lets take a moment to think about that shall we?

Clearly a Nation of cybernetic slaves doesn't need to be paid to work. Clearly Nation, being wholly outside of the SEC and Concord regulation need not worry about license fees, third party production costs, or taxes. And even if the whole of Nation save Kuvakei himself are nothing more than machines, why would a man with armies of obedient machines that can manufacture anything he wants, need money? If Nation consists of mindless augmented lifeforms rife with cybernetic implants and devoid of any semblance of free will, then why would they need money? Why would a Nation as you portray it ever bother to compromise and "hold back" in it's attacks for economic reasons when a Nation that has nothing but perfectly obedient workers and warriors simply has no economic concerns of that sort?

Quite simply you can't have it both ways. Either Nation is nothing but automatons and has no need of money, or Nation citizens have free will and require wages for their work.


Actually untrue. Requiring money as a society is a sign of societal poverty.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#24 - 2012-01-11 21:32:45 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
So what happened to Rallence Ameteves then?


I missed this earlier. My apologies.

I have been informed that he has gone to a better place. Whatever that means, it is not death, because in death there is nothingness, and in life there is the potential to construct heaven.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#25 - 2012-01-11 21:36:37 UTC
Money is simply a symbolism and common denominator for wealth. Money makes sense in a situation where different people have different needs and desires, but also specialize in producing or doing different things. In a place where people can choose what to buy, money is needed to simplify trade. It is not a weakness, but rather a simplifier.

In Nation, money isn't needed because there is never a scenario in which desires and needs do not match what is being produced. Everyone is "on the same page", so to speak, due to the advanced networks Nation has which can almost instantly alert the collective of needs. There is no need for money as a result.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#26 - 2012-01-11 23:30:07 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
So what happened to Rallence Ameteves then?


I missed this earlier. My apologies.

I have been informed that he has gone to a better place. Whatever that means, it is not death, because in death there is nothingness, and in life there is the potential to construct heaven.


So he's dead, gotcha.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#27 - 2012-01-11 23:40:09 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
So what happened to Rallence Ameteves then?


I missed this earlier. My apologies.

I have been informed that he has gone to a better place. Whatever that means, it is not death, because in death there is nothingness, and in life there is the potential to construct heaven.


So he's dead, gotcha.


If you consider being moved away from active military duty to be "dead", sure, but then I would ask you what kind of life you're living.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#28 - 2012-01-11 23:45:01 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
So what happened to Rallence Ameteves then?


I missed this earlier. My apologies.

I have been informed that he has gone to a better place. Whatever that means, it is not death, because in death there is nothingness, and in life there is the potential to construct heaven.


So he's dead, gotcha.


If you consider being moved away from active military duty to be "dead", sure, but then I would ask you what kind of life you're living.


"Gone to a better place" is the story my parents told me when I woke up one morning as a kid wondering where my Hamster was.

Although I doubt Kuvakei flushed him down the toilet, I believe the general nature of things is the same.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#29 - 2012-01-11 23:47:21 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
So what happened to Rallence Ameteves then?


I missed this earlier. My apologies.

I have been informed that he has gone to a better place. Whatever that means, it is not death, because in death there is nothingness, and in life there is the potential to construct heaven.


So he's dead, gotcha.


If you consider being moved away from active military duty to be "dead", sure, but then I would ask you what kind of life you're living.


"Gone to a better place" is the story my parents told me when I woke up one morning as a kid wondering where my Hamster was.

Although I doubt Kuvakei flushed him down the toilet, I believe the general nature of things is the same.


The thing you are failing to recognize, Caellach, is that Nation has made a similar technology as what prevents Capsuleers like Eran Mintor from dying permanently to everyone. There is no need for there to be death in Nation.

The same could be true of your vaunted empires, if they cared enough about their citizens to make it happen.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#30 - 2012-01-11 23:53:18 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The thing you are failing to recognize, Caellach, is that Nation has made a similar technology as what prevents Capsuleers like Eran Mintor from dying permanently to everyone. There is no need for there to be death in Nation.

The same could be true of your vaunted empires, if they cared enough about their citizens to make it happen.


Uhuh, and you're failing to realise that the odds of Kuvakei bringing back someone who grew a conscience and a chance to dissent is slim to none. It's similar to how CONCORD shut off all of Sutola Endoma's clone stations that were under their control.

Ameteves was taken around the back of the workshop with a handgun and put down, it's like when actors get written out of holo dramas. Quite often they're just put on an Interbus and never seen again.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#31 - 2012-01-11 23:54:18 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The same could be true of your vaunted empires, if they cared enough about their citizens to make it happen.
I think most citizens would prefer if no one cared about them the way Sansha does.
wurblewind
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#32 - 2012-01-13 05:42:24 UTC
Indeed, what measure is a free thinker?

Quote:
There is no death in Nation.


Or that of the clone of a dead man, for his body is perished when he moves on, there is no doubt. Death is simply a fundamental function of life, where it must necessarily come to an end, and without death, there is no life, because it is our comprehension of our mortality that gives us the drive to be something, to leave something behind. This drive defines us, indeed, defines life itself. All Nation promises is to perpetuate something that we require to end to truly appreciate, as it prepares to pass. This is not life, except possibly in a scientific sense. This is merely existence.

I will not lie: When my task in the void is done, I will willingly unplug this damn scanner, go home to Trossere, and go back to loading cargo racks...or maybe a desk job. Something where I'm not throwing away thousands of lives trying to save billions more. But for now, I will sacrifice what I see as my ability to truly live, not from a scientific standpoint, but a philosophical one. I will give up my ability to enjoy and appreciate my life as it was meant to be lived, in order that entire worlds do not have such a fate forced upon them. Some of you chose this perpetual existence willingly, even for little more than personal gain, and I will respect that, but to see Man robbed of his free will and that drive and spirit that makes him who he is (or her/her/she, apply as needed. P) is, in my most humble opinion, a crime against the very soul of what makes us human. "There is no death in Nation." There is no life in Nation.



(Bet you didn't think I was a philosopher too, did you? Bear)

[center]Keep low, fly fast, die well.[/center]

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2012-01-13 06:00:24 UTC
Iche He'Tvo wrote:
An analysis of Sansha Nation tactics has concluded that they have no resolve to fully carry out threats and aggression made to the capsule community after the interdiction of attacks on worlds in the Empire regions as per the long winded press release.

Statistics show the densely populated systems are avoided by Sansha Nation forces and no empire infrastructure has been been destroyed to limit capsule community operations beyond the annoyance of capsule community mining operations that are mobile to begin with and easily relocated out of zones of aggression without interdiction attempts. The Sansha Nation zone of control in a given system is limited to more of a token force than any real invasion of occupation or system control.

The failure of both Concord and Navy forces to engage Sansha Nation forces suggests an agreement to allow aggression to continue on a limited scale falling short of the reported and expected goals of the Sansha Nation statement of intent. The goal it would seem is more economic in nature to the benefit of Empire corporate entities than any real threat of loss of support infrastructure as would be expected in a real threat.

The capsule community has illustrated time and again the need to limit or eliminate any support for continued operations with the goal of gaining defined objectives. The interdiction of supply routes, removal of station support if not the capture of structures to control systems and supply routes to weaken defense forces, forcing a retreat from positions of control are employed on all levels. Sansha Nation forces have not done any of this.

The failure of Sansha Nation forces to successfully employ these basic tactics illustrates the limited scope and ability of the Sansha organization to both plan and execute to gain and hold an objective to any advantage for long. The Sansha support infrastructure is able to continue production replacing massive losses with a single minded determination but the failure of the leadership planning makes this ability useless in the long term. The ability to gate organized forces to any area at any time is a huge advantage and the quality and types of equipment used beyond what is allowed to the capsule community is not to be underestimated but the poor tactics negate a real threat of long term occupation.

Available data suggests Sansha Nation forces are but a tool employed by others to further an agenda of terror rather than any real military campaign of occupation and control.




Very likely so. Rumor has it those free exploration ships we got were doing a little exploration of their own.

Frankly, every government needs an endless stream of bogie men to keep their subjects in check.

And there's money to be made.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Drake Arson
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#34 - 2012-01-14 15:30:44 UTC
Please, believe that Nation is harmless. There is no threat at all. Completely innocent. Just a rambling of an old man whos been alive too long....

It'll make my job easier, regardless.
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