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Station games
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Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-08 09:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit McJafitson
Station games suck.

Should all stations be altered to become kick-out stations?

Kick-out stations have their undock point outside of their docking radius, examples include Minmatar NPC stations and Caldari outposts. So when undocking you have to turn around in order to dock up again, making you vulnerable to attack.

I'm not suggesting remodelling the stations, just altering the docking radius.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-08 10:53:43 UTC
yes

:)
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#3 - 2012-01-08 13:01:09 UTC
i dont see how anyone could argue this.. i dont think it would stop the docking games, but would definately help.

this is both a far fetched tangent, but also works off this idea.
-Ive always wanted to see worker ships, towing ships and random traffic. while i understand have actual ships flying everywhere would lag the system, this would be a good oppertunity to introduce the "tow'ers" or tugboats. ships that would come out and tractor beam your ship and tow it into station. now how this would work with your idea is, they would tow your ship out and away from station before releasing. this way you would justify a ship not just appearing 10 to 15 km from stations.

-another way to fight docking games would be to increase the timer, but i dont support that, so nevermind.(can you tell i havent slept in two days Lol)
Embrace My Hate
Bitmap Brothers
#4 - 2012-01-08 13:15:01 UTC
I would Definitely support this.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#5 - 2012-01-08 13:21:02 UTC
Station games are cause by instantly-docking and instatly undocking game mechanics. the way to fix this is simple, yet horrible.

It involves the station spawning drones or ships that will tractor beam your ship into the undocking ramp, and then take it in. Its a process that would take at least, game-time wise, about 10 seconds to 5 minutes. All the while you will be getting shot at by whoever's forcing you to dock. It would depend on where your ship is relative to the entry point (which unsurprisingly is the undock ramp aswell, most of the time).

So there's no real way of fixing this unless you want to hear the screaming/comlaining of everyone who suddenly gets to be blown up while docking up, not to mention those weak mining ships that would just be exposed to ganking while waiting for the dock-drones.

The solution is either upset 99% of the people or leave it as it is. Its like that undocking progress bar, its well past its expiration date, since nowadays there's no excuse to not make an animation that provides you with your ship being towed into the undock ramp and a door closing beind you and opening in front of you the moment you're on the local space.

Again it would take time.

So... While I'd enjoy that bit of "realism" I'd think it'd take a while too long and be too realistic. Another example would be switchign ships, shouldnt' be instantaneous, but can you hear the crying already? :)
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#6 - 2012-01-08 17:46:23 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
Station games are cause by instantly-docking and instatly undocking game mechanics. the way to fix this is simple, yet horrible.

It involves the station spawning drones or ships that will tractor beam your ship into the undocking ramp, and then take it in. Its a process that would take at least, game-time wise, about 10 seconds to 5 minutes. All the while you will be getting shot at by whoever's forcing you to dock. It would depend on where your ship is relative to the entry point (which unsurprisingly is the undock ramp aswell, most of the time).

So there's no real way of fixing this unless you want to hear the screaming/comlaining of everyone who suddenly gets to be blown up while docking up, not to mention those weak mining ships that would just be exposed to ganking while waiting for the dock-drones.

The solution is either upset 99% of the people or leave it as it is. Its like that undocking progress bar, its well past its expiration date, since nowadays there's no excuse to not make an animation that provides you with your ship being towed into the undock ramp and a door closing beind you and opening in front of you the moment you're on the local space.

Again it would take time.

So... While I'd enjoy that bit of "realism" I'd think it'd take a while too long and be too realistic. Another example would be switchign ships, shouldnt' be instantaneous, but can you hear the crying already? :)

That doesn't really have anything to do with shortening the docking radius of stations. Also, I'm presuming you haven't thought this out in terms of low sec. Anything docks/undocks ---> BAM, a bunch of tornadoes warp in and alpha it.

Anyway, as for the OPs proposal, supported. Although it would make jumping my carrier around a little... interesting Sad As long as we can still undock, ctrl+space and redock without getting bumped in that 30 seconds it should be fine.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7 - 2012-01-08 17:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
posting in a butthurt "i want my km" topic.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2012-01-08 18:13:11 UTC
the current mechanics are there to workaround the fact that you can't look out of the station while docked.
you have 30s invulnerability and 20s redock delay. so you can take a look and dock again.

i fully agree that docking games exploiting this workaround are boring and annoying but current mechanics should not be altered without a replacement for the "take a look if its safe to undock" thing.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#9 - 2012-01-08 18:25:00 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
the current mechanics are there to workaround the fact that you can't look out of the station while docked.
you have 30s invulnerability and 20s redock delay. so you can take a look and dock again.

i fully agree that docking games exploiting this workaround are boring and annoying but current mechanics should not be altered without a replacement for the "take a look if its safe to undock" thing.

Shortening the undock ramp doesn't effect that, press ctrl+space then redock after 30 seconds.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-01-08 18:27:41 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
the current mechanics are there to workaround the fact that you can't look out of the station while docked.
you have 30s invulnerability and 20s redock delay. so you can take a look and dock again.


No they're not. Or there wouldn't be kick-out stations in existence already

Asuka Solo wrote:
posting a butthurt "i want my km" topic.

Is it really buthurt to want the gameplay to be as CCP advertises it? This would never happen unless that freighter went AFK as he hit undock.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#11 - 2012-01-08 21:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Is it really buthurt to want the gameplay to be as CCP advertises it? This would never happen unless that freighter went AFK as he hit undock.

I would love CCP to make a realistic youtube advert. Just thirty minutes of battlecruisers sitting on an undock/offgrid from a gate waiting for some idiot to come through in a badger.

Although on a serious note, as I said before I do kind of support this suggestion, but I also hate station games as well. Personally I'd recommend you just stop fighting on station instead. Also, tbf even with a complete drop off docking radius, that freighter still would have just stopped and docked.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#12 - 2012-01-08 21:25:19 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
the current mechanics are there to workaround the fact that you can't look out of the station while docked.
you have 30s invulnerability and 20s redock delay. so you can take a look and dock again.


No they're not. Or there wouldn't be kick-out stations in existence already

Asuka Solo wrote:
posting a butthurt "i want my km" topic.

Is it really buthurt to want the gameplay to be as CCP advertises it? This would never happen unless that freighter went AFK as he hit undock.


Actually, if that freighter was a neutral pilot on a blue station and didn't have the rights to redock... then yea.. it will happen.

Then again, if you demand to change the mechanic to allow you to jew KMs via station camping with 500 brosefs, just to gank a single unsuspecting pilot, then yes, it is butthurt.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
#13 - 2012-01-08 21:37:20 UTC
The video shows a fleet fight, which would be nice. I don't know about your area of space, but where I am station games are generally a group of ships or at least one gank fit sitting outside of a station already aligned to a warp out waiting for a much smaller ship to undock. The smaller ships ony choice is to either redock, die, or try warping to an insta undock and hope that the camper isn't uber boosting scan res. Eve may not be fair, but there should at least be some element of sportsmanship to it. Why should CCP change anything just to give campers easy kills? What's next, asking them to remove jump cloaks?
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-01-08 22:12:14 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Then again, if you demand to change the mechanic to allow you to jew KMs via station camping with 500 brosefs, just to gank a single unsuspecting pilot, then yes, it is butthurt.


Implying that station games only occur in large scale pvp...

Also 'unsuspecting pilot'? How can you be unsuspecting of a station camp when you can see that local is full of reds? How stupid do you have to be?

You want to talk about unsuspecting? How about gatecamps? You can't see who's in local before you jump into a gatecamp. We should totally expand the activation radius of gates to 15km so that you jump into a system you don't need to risk reapproaching after you decloak. Wouldn't want someone to lose their ship in this PvP game now would we?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#15 - 2012-01-08 22:21:43 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Then again, if you demand to change the mechanic to allow you to jew KMs via station camping with 500 brosefs, just to gank a single unsuspecting pilot, then yes, it is butthurt.


Implying that station games only occur in large scale pvp...

Also 'unsuspecting pilot'? How can you be unsuspecting of a station camp when you can see that local is full of reds? How stupid do you have to be?

You want to talk about unsuspecting? How about gatecamps? You can't see who's in local before you jump into a gatecamp. We should totally expand the activation radius of gates to 15km so that you jump into a system you don't need to risk reapproaching after you decloak. Wouldn't want someone to lose their ship in this PvP game now would we?

Well, tbf local almost always has people in it. You still have to undock to see if they're sitting outside station.

As for gate camps, scouting? If you're out and in space you can always go around them, or use a cloak to get through. The same can't be said for stations, and logging on only to get camped into station is just boring.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-08 23:16:30 UTC
Ah the bitter tears of b*tching. To bad the the "vaunted" PVP of EVE is actually nothing more then camping (station, gate, POS) which I was doing back in 1999. EVE's spawning in choke points to force player interaction...I hear the child's game of Whack-a-mole is very similar to the "hardcore" PVP in EVE (think pro-gate gamps catching everything) and it spits out ticket like KM after it lights up from a pretty explosion which doesn't really redeem for anything of real value except for a mental blowjob to one's own ego instead of cheap chinese finger puzzle.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#17 - 2012-01-08 23:18:40 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Ah the bitter tears of b*tching. To bad the the "vaunted" PVP of EVE is actually nothing more then camping (station, gate, POS) which I was doing back in 1999. EVE's spawning in choke points to force player interaction...I hear the child's game of Whack-a-mole is very similar to the "hardcore" PVP in EVE (think pro-gate gamps catching everything) and it spits out ticket like KM after it lights up from a pretty explosion which doesn't really redeem for anything of real value except for a mental blowjob to one's own ego instead of cheap chinese finger puzzle.

This comment is completely relevant and has, for me at least, entirely cleared up this subject. Good job keeping your rage on topic bro.

Anyway, back to the thread...

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-01-08 23:36:21 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Ah the bitter tears of b*tching. To bad the the "vaunted" PVP of EVE is actually nothing more then camping (station, gate, POS) which I was doing back in 1999. EVE's spawning in choke points to force player interaction...I hear the child's game of Whack-a-mole is very similar to the "hardcore" PVP in EVE (think pro-gate gamps catching everything) and it spits out ticket like KM after it lights up from a pretty explosion which doesn't really redeem for anything of real value except for a mental blowjob to one's own ego instead of cheap chinese finger puzzle.


Spoiler: Everything in this game is exactly as you describe. Spaceships are just pixels, isk is just a number, it's all dumb and fake and pointless but we all still play the game.

I personally don't understand players who do the same missions year after year in empire in their officer-fit golems. Why do they even need isk? To plex their account so that they can do more missions?

But you're right, Eve does force conflict to take place at choke points because of the way warp works, so I'd rather conflict did actually happen rather than everyone getting blueballed all the time.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#19 - 2012-01-09 16:08:33 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
the current mechanics are there to workaround the fact that you can't look out of the station while docked.
you have 30s invulnerability and 20s redock delay. so you can take a look and dock again.


No they're not. Or there wouldn't be kick-out stations in existence already

don't understand what you want to say. I can redock with any ship in a non-kickout station before anybody is even able to lock me.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-01-09 16:34:23 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Spoiler: Everything in this game is exactly as you describe. Spaceships are just pixels, isk is just a number, it's all dumb and fake and pointless but we all still play the game.

I personally don't understand players who do the same missions year after year in empire in their officer-fit golems. Why do they even need isk? To plex their account so that they can do more missions?

But you're right, Eve does force conflict to take place at choke points because of the way warp works, so I'd rather conflict did actually happen rather than everyone getting blueballed all the time.

I don't understand, why you even care? Do you really care if some other guy is walking down the street and it just bothers you that he is doing that? Your butthole puckers up in annoyance and you have this rage like the Hulk that he must say "Good day to you" but he doesn't say even a word so you just have to step in his way so he can acknowledge you even exist. Its not like you HAVE to interact and stop him for a conversation, because thats pretty much how I treat other people I don't know in real life and just most people a simple hello.

Only reason I despise how ship combat works, is that most of its just jump/undock and BOOM! I got tired of it, real fast. Just like CoD, my friends excel at it but as soon as I just come around a corner...dead...in seconds...rinse repeat its gets boring fast. Everytime I tried to avoid people to get past them, to go to those frontiers where the action is supposed to be...they were at the gates/stations - the front ******* door - I get punched in the face. So the "challenge" of winning, is first come first to get served and I am left holding the 2 Jokers in the deck of cards while the other guys are holding the Aces, Full straights, royal suites, ect. (aka, they just win and these victorious "Its a good day to die" battles are measured in seconds).

Only reason I like to play EVE, is S P A C E fiction genre (because I am tired of fantasy, but never touched WoW X) and Tabula Rasa was pretty awesome for its short run. EVE got the space thing right right, but thats just about it. Google Infinity: Quest for Earth and give it a look, its a game "in production" that will probably never go live but their idea of space travel is to lock on to distant suns and jump towards them (claiming like 200 billion systems, its much harder to catch people because they might choose 1/200 nearby systems instead of 2). It would be like sitting in Jita, locking on to Amarr, and spending time warping their BUT the bad guy has to give chase to catch you instead of just sitting in Udema where where he knows you will travel past at some point with a high sensor res to pop everything from shuttles and frigs with zero value just because it appeared on grid. Being able to travel in any direction without limition is more "space like" then what EVE is, I won't bother going to lowsec anymore because its like buffering the lanes of Bowling for children and the ball cannot even go into the gutter so it has only one direction...straight into the pins.
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