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Miners! Make Moar Isk Nao!
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astara989
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-01-10 15:02:56 UTC
A lot of interesting and contradicting information here, might have to give it a go and find out for myself. Weather it is better then plain belt mining or not, this certainly could be a good alternative to rokh/coverter mining during hulkageddon.
Verocity
8 Virtues
#22 - 2012-01-10 16:32:37 UTC
This works so I guess the cat is out of the bag. I have 3 accounts: 2 Hulk/Mack/Gas ships and a "perfect" Orca booster. It's pretty silly how fast you can blaze through missions and turn in for gobs of LPs but who am I to complain. :)
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
#23 - 2012-01-12 17:55:28 UTC
My old reply vaporized. I did the math and to my surprise, the zillion people who disagreed with me appear right. You need a good agent (0.5 sec space) and at least one good item in the LP store (plus be willing to buy the tags you need), but it's feasible. It also works even if you don't have the fancy teams that people are using here. That is, if you're mining roids for money, then you most likely will do somewhat better in mining missions, as long as you can move 45k m3 of ore in a reasonable time.

Also, my characters that were running mining missions, both had no skill in mining connections (hence about 20% less LP than these guys were seeing) and one had weak negotiation skill too (that's the money skill). I think I might fix that.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#24 - 2012-01-16 16:37:49 UTC
bump

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-01-16 20:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe
95% don't read forums so it is unlikely it will affect things any time soon. plus there is a MIMAF crowd who 'like making things'.

good find though (if true).

btw what isk/lp ratio are you using? because 500 was pretty optimistic when I was running missions last time, at least for the corps that do have agents in empire.. best (about 900) was I think SoE but i am not sure it they have mining agents.
Hamatitio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-01-16 21:34:34 UTC
Mnengli Noiliffe wrote:
95% don't read forums so it is unlikely it will affect things any time soon. plus there is a MIMAF crowd who 'like making things'.

good find though (if true).

btw what isk/lp ratio are you using? because 500 was pretty optimistic when I was running missions last time, at least for the corps that do have agents in empire.. best (about 900) was I think SoE but i am not sure it they have mining agents.


500? lol. Was that navy ravens? Thats absolutely terrible return on your lp.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#27 - 2012-01-24 01:11:37 UTC
Point is that if you multibox in empire and mine ore you would make more mining for LP at present.


Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#28 - 2012-02-27 17:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
I got a question for the OP:

I'm currently running L2 mining missions in a Vexor because of the mining drone bonus, reasonable cargo (with enough low slots and rigs to bring it to nearly 2,000m3) and effective speed compared to the barges.

Currently, I am capable of flying a Hulk with an Orca alt, but given the limited amount of mission ore available I didn't think either of those ship types were necessary. Besides, an Exhumer is too slow in case I have to move around often.

My question is, other than a Vexor, what other non-barge, non-exhumer ship is best for mining in missions and what fittings?

Adapt or Die
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-02-27 18:43:08 UTC
Last time I converted mining LPs to ISK I got about 1.3k-1.4k per point off the 5% salvage implant, but I sold about one per day (10k LP's worth), which means it's definitely not a good item for converting mass amounts of LPs that you'd get from doing these missions regularly.

Also, non-barge ships I've thought of using: Apoc or Rokh. Both have 8 highs. The Apoc has a bigger maximum cargohold fully rigged but needs fitting mods to put all 8 miners online. The Rokh has a much smaller cargo capacity, but doesn't need fitting mods, and also has a better buffer with the shield resists.

I also considered using a Hurricane with 7 miners and a mining link in the last slot. The trouble with this is that you'd have to unload the hold every minute as opposed to every 5+ with the BS. The upside is... while not as awesome as an Orca, it's cheaper and orcas can't mine themselves. i ultimately decided that was too much hassle.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#30 - 2012-02-28 15:50:18 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Last time I converted mining LPs to ISK I got about 1.3k-1.4k per point off the 5% salvage implant, but I sold about one per day (10k LP's worth), which means it's definitely not a good item for converting mass amounts of LPs that you'd get from doing these missions regularly.

Also, non-barge ships I've thought of using: Apoc or Rokh. Both have 8 highs. The Apoc has a bigger maximum cargohold fully rigged but needs fitting mods to put all 8 miners online. The Rokh has a much smaller cargo capacity, but doesn't need fitting mods, and also has a better buffer with the shield resists.

I also considered using a Hurricane with 7 miners and a mining link in the last slot. The trouble with this is that you'd have to unload the hold every minute as opposed to every 5+ with the BS. The upside is... while not as awesome as an Orca, it's cheaper and orcas can't mine themselves. i ultimately decided that was too much hassle.


Thanks for the tip.

Given how expensive battleships tend to be, I decided to opt for a tier 3 battlecruiser (the Talos). With 8x dual diode mining lasers and a full set of T2 expanded cargoholds and medium cargohold optimizers (totaling just over 3000m3), that boat can blow through two L2 mining missions in just a little over half an hour. Thanks to that boat, I was able to quickly progress all the way to L3 missions.

But now I get the feeling I'm gonna have to call in my hauler alt and replace the T2 expanders in my Talos with T2 MLU as the volume of the ore is much larger according to the Eve-Survival guide. For now, I'm sticking with the Talos due to its awesome speed for its size as my Hulk can only go up to 87m/s (F****** SLOW!!!!). But if needed, I will switch to the Hulk.

I have to say, for L2 missions, I have yet to run into any npc rats. None, zip, nada. Not only that, I racked up well over 4,000 LPs in a very short time. Although I think that's about to change once I get home and start on a L3 mission.

Adapt or Die
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-02-28 16:59:49 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:

...

I have to say, for L2 missions, I have yet to run into any npc rats. None, zip, nada. Not only that, I racked up well over 4,000 LPs in a very short time. Although I think that's about to change once I get home and start on a L3 mission.


I hadn't considered the tier3 BCs. They weren't around when I made my mining BS. (Mine's slow as heck.) The big benefit the BSes is the extra tank and slightly higher cargo space. I think the Apoc goes up to about 4.5k? The downside is the added cost, and large cargo rigs are expensive!

I hate to give this tip away, but i guess few people will read this thread. What you really want are L4 gas mining missions. It doesn't take a lot to max out your gas mining potential, just Gas Cloud harvesting to V which is a 1x skill. All the L4 missions are balanced to be equal in terms of time at max skill/optimal setup roughly. This means your mining BS/BC with Gas Cloud Harvesting V is going to be equal to a Hulk doing the normal mining missions or a Mackinaw doing the Ice ones. This is awesome for a number of reasons which I will let you also discover, but suffice it to say training BS III and Gas Cloud Harvesting V is way faster than all the skills to fly a Hulk properly. One of the gas missions has no rats at all, the other one has rogue drones that go up to 2x cruisers (5 light drones seem to be more than enough to handle them, so any BS will do. tier3 BCs might have to fit some small guns to make them die.)

I think the regular mining missions just have normal belt rats for a system of your security, which for .8 and higher means no rats at all (It's .8 right?)
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#32 - 2012-02-28 22:53:50 UTC
It was 0.8 and above. I guess that explains the lack of rats. Thanks for the gas mining tip, though.

Adapt or Die
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-02-29 04:05:23 UTC
I can't really see how this would out preform mining in any way. I've been running L4 in .06 mining missions for the last few weeks and even with adding 3 characters into the mix it would still be more profitable to mine. Maybe if you are running low/nullsec mining missions, but I have never done those and cannot be sure.


From what I figured out it was roughly 8000 lp per mission with mining connections V and roughly 2m isk. This is split between 3 people so you're making around 2665 lp and 67,000 isk per character (if other players are involved).

Most of the L4 missions would take at minimum 10 minutes (ice taking around 15 minutes) using your 3 person team. So figure 5 missions per hour comes to:
40,000 lp or 13,333lp per player.
10,000,000isk or 3,333,333isk per player.
With a set value of say 600 lp to isk:

Total hour isk made:
total: 34,000,000isk
12m isk per player per hour.


Now I know a 2 hulk 1 orca team has to be able to beat these numbers. I am by far not a perfect hulk (at like 70% iirc) and I can make around 20m-22m per hour. Add a second hulk making 22m per hour, orca boots and thats around 50m per hour. Much more than what you would be getting from the missions (and thats not evening counting corp tax).


"and fly T1 cruisers with 5 gas harvesters"
To have 5 gas harvesters you need gas harvesting V. 2 T2 gas harvesters out preform 4 T1 gas harvesters so you know. So 5 T2 gas harvesters on both ships would be as much output as almost 5 of your 5 t1 ships.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#34 - 2012-02-29 14:24:50 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
I can't really see how this would out preform mining in any way. I've been running L4 in .06 mining missions for the last few weeks and even with adding 3 characters into the mix it would still be more profitable to mine. Maybe if you are running low/nullsec mining missions, but I have never done those and cannot be sure.


From what I figured out it was roughly 8000 lp per mission with mining connections V and roughly 2m isk. This is split between 3 people so you're making around 2665 lp and 67,000 isk per character (if other players are involved).

Most of the L4 missions would take at minimum 10 minutes (ice taking around 15 minutes) using your 3 person team. So figure 5 missions per hour comes to:
40,000 lp or 13,333lp per player.
10,000,000isk or 3,333,333isk per player.
With a set value of say 600 lp to isk:

Total hour isk made:
total: 34,000,000isk
12m isk per player per hour.


Now I know a 2 hulk 1 orca team has to be able to beat these numbers. I am by far not a perfect hulk (at like 70% iirc) and I can make around 20m-22m per hour. Add a second hulk making 22m per hour, orca boots and thats around 50m per hour. Much more than what you would be getting from the missions (and thats not evening counting corp tax).


"and fly T1 cruisers with 5 gas harvesters"
To have 5 gas harvesters you need gas harvesting V. 2 T2 gas harvesters out preform 4 T1 gas harvesters so you know. So 5 T2 gas harvesters on both ships would be as much output as almost 5 of your 5 t1 ships.




I recently started with the L3 missions that are located in 0.5 space. In this case, I had to call in my hauler alt to assist. But in the meantime, I noticed there were quite a number of npc rats every once in a while during a single mission and I collected loot from pirate spawns and alloys from drone drops. The only thing left to do is salvage the wrecks. The total value of the loot/alloys and salvage is very marginal at best, though.

Of course seeing that drone drops and loot might, and I emphasize "might", get nerfed, I'm not really betting my income on loot but on the LP gained and on the standings I earn towards improving my refining rates once I get back into regular mining. To me, that is the true reason for my investment as my main (Henry) is tailored towards refining. Seeing how my main is also into research and invention, I would also try to invest some time running R&D missions.

Anyways, after running a few L3 missions, I think it's time for me to bring in my Hulk. The Talos is not as good in L3 missions as it was in L2 given the limited cargo hold it has and the limited CPU/PG is not friendly towards achieving optimal mining efficiency in a BC. In fact, the Hulk tanks way better, yields more ore and carries a sizable cargo compared to all the other classes. A Covetor can do just fine, but I would recommend fleeting with an alt or buddy that can defend the barge's weak EHP. In fact, the Hulk can run L3 missions on its own just fine but I just bring my hauler alt anyways as I don't like being bothered to warp back and forth as the downtime cuts into my efficiency.

Adapt or Die
Pleasure Boy
LUX Uls Xystus
LUX aRe us
#35 - 2012-02-29 16:01:24 UTC
I've done mining missions for some time mostly for the standing.
Level 1 through 3 where done solo, level 4 with orca support.
Some things no1 here mentioned:
Some L3 Mining Missions include some serious combat.
I got two of them on a regular basis. One was vs about 10 frigs + 3 cruisers, the other vs 2 missile batteries and 3 or more timed spawns of 1 cruiser + some frigs.
As I did those missions in caldari space I once even had 1 guristas beltrat spawn on top of the rogue drones. And as that rat kept on jamming me for 3 full cycles I had to tank everything for that time.

So to sum up what I want to say:
Do not fly level 3 mining missions if you lack proper drone and tanking skills or are ready to kill the rats with a combat ship first.
For me those missions where incentive to train for shield booster II (yes yes, you never fit boosters in a mining ship, I know the sermon. )

Flying level 4 mining missions I never ever encountered more than 3 rats simultanous. But didn't do many of those.
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-04 08:30:11 UTC
Are there storyline missions involving mining missions? I was disappointed when I finished my sixteenth mission only to get a full blown combat storyline mission. Maybe poor luck of the draw, but if there are no mining storyline missions, then it seems backwards on CCP's part.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-03-04 09:59:02 UTC
Pleasure Boy wrote:
I've done mining missions for some time mostly for the standing.
Level 1 through 3 where done solo, level 4 with orca support.
Some things no1 here mentioned:
Some L3 Mining Missions include some serious combat.
I got two of them on a regular basis. One was vs about 10 frigs + 3 cruisers, the other vs 2 missile batteries and 3 or more timed spawns of 1 cruiser + some frigs.
As I did those missions in caldari space I once even had 1 guristas beltrat spawn on top of the rogue drones. And as that rat kept on jamming me for 3 full cycles I had to tank everything for that time.

So to sum up what I want to say:
Do not fly level 3 mining missions if you lack proper drone and tanking skills or are ready to kill the rats with a combat ship first.
For me those missions where incentive to train for shield booster II (yes yes, you never fit boosters in a mining ship, I know the sermon. )

Flying level 4 mining missions I never ever encountered more than 3 rats simultanous. But didn't do many of those.


I am pretty sure (can be confirmed on eve-survival.org) that none of the L4 missions have any rats at all (in fact normal belt rats do not even spawn). I would guess that this is because the hell a player needs to go though with mining gass with L1 - L3 gas mining is enough to have to deal with.

After doing more testing myself it seems that yes if you have gas harvesting V and ice mining V and only exhumers IV + mining drones I you can make more isk as long as their are items on the LP you need to purchase (for example the 5% mining implant). If you are going to sell LP for isk and or do not have exhumers V + mining drones II you are better off mining when it comes to isk per hour.

I haven't done the math on 2 characters doing single L4 missions together but I'm pretty sure the above theory would still hold true.
Alain Kinsella
#38 - 2012-03-04 13:19:38 UTC
Nyrak wrote:
Are there storyline missions involving mining missions? I was disappointed when I finished my sixteenth mission only to get a full blown combat storyline mission. Maybe poor luck of the draw, but if there are no mining storyline missions, then it seems backwards on CCP's part.


No, that was great luck of the draw (unless it was against Empire factions). Combat storyline will give the best boost. And Couriers are still faster for faction standing (when using the right agents).

This thread is making me consider dusting off the Hulk, or at least looking over what the L2/L3 mining missions give out. And actually training for gas harvesting (never really saw the point if mostly doing empire work).

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Verocity
8 Virtues
#39 - 2012-03-04 22:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Verocity
Styth spiting wrote:
I can't really see how this would out preform mining in any way. I've been running L4 in .06 mining missions for the last few weeks and even with adding 3 characters into the mix it would still be more profitable to mine. Maybe if you are running low/nullsec mining missions, but I have never done those and cannot be sure.


From what I figured out it was roughly 8000 lp per mission with mining connections V and roughly 2m isk. This is split between 3 people so you're making around 2665 lp and 67,000 isk per character (if other players are involved).

Most of the L4 missions would take at minimum 10 minutes (ice taking around 15 minutes) using your 3 person team. So figure 5 missions per hour comes to:
40,000 lp or 13,333lp per player.
10,000,000isk or 3,333,333isk per player.
With a set value of say 600 lp to isk:

Total hour isk made:
total: 34,000,000isk
12m isk per player per hour.


Now I know a 2 hulk 1 orca team has to be able to beat these numbers. I am by far not a perfect hulk (at like 70% iirc) and I can make around 20m-22m per hour. Add a second hulk making 22m per hour, orca boots and thats around 50m per hour. Much more than what you would be getting from the missions (and thats not evening counting corp tax).


"and fly T1 cruisers with 5 gas harvesters"
To have 5 gas harvesters you need gas harvesting V. 2 T2 gas harvesters out preform 4 T1 gas harvesters so you know. So 5 T2 gas harvesters on both ships would be as much output as almost 5 of your 5 t1 ships.




You should move to a .5 system. Moving 3 chars around for each mission (Perfect Orca booster and 2 Hulk/Mack/gas harvesters with max skills/yield) I can harvest all the ore, ice, or gas in about 9 minutes. The other 6 are for travel time and docking so 4 missions an hour with an average of 5500LP each is ~22000LP/hr + 8mil ISK in rewards. With a nice conversion ratio (I get ~1900ISK/LP), you can get about 50 mil an hour. You can get about the same with Pyroxeres now too so take your pick.

Story line missions can be anything - combat, distribution, or drop off a specific quantity of ore at a station.
LaMotte Champlain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-04-10 20:01:35 UTC
Resurrecting this topic...

I'm not an EVE-Excel major, but I am curious how the recent spike in mineral prices affects the difference in profitability between dedicated mining missions and traditional ore mining. As ore/mineral prices rise, the financial benefits of the proposed plan probably become slimmer and slimmer...
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