EVE General Discussion

risk vs reward..
cliche

just to inform you .. null-alts are the majority of contributors in farming the incursion sites...

i do not care as i am not flavor of an moment person..

Some aspects to take into account regarding High Sec Incursions:

1) For the first time in Eve's history, a community has developed which places all differences aside for the sake of making ISK. Every other form of ISK making is generally down to a personal creation level or you are placed in direct competition. (I.e. Missioning on your own or fighting over a tech moon)

- Firstly, is this right? The reasons that Incursions in high sec net so much are due to the groups such as Valhalla Project and BTL which have created these communities of trust where you can find a pick up group, do your role within the fleet and get rich. Personally, I both like the Incursion aspect of the game, but I also dislike how this mechanic encourages the RAID mentality of WoW and other theme park MMO's where your ties and choices in game have no effect on your ability to exist within the universe.

In fact, the Incursion model as it so exists is a direct mirror of the eve 'Chaos Theory' model. It encourages meaningless, faceless people to group together for the matter of an hour for the same goal and likely, never speak to one another again.

2) Risk vs Reward. I believe there is more risk than it some posts have vaguely swooped over for high sec incursions. To attain your 100mil/120mil an hour, you are talking a shiny fleet which in total will likely cost within the region of 8-10 billion ISK, all in the hands of a couple of logistics pilots whom A) You may have never met before and B) This is Eve, what gives you any ability to trust them over anything. Point B is answered with the aspect 1 I have made. The mechanic of the game provides the incentive for one another to trust each other, simply because everyone can make a lot of money by working together for a short time.

However on the other side of the coin, 2/3 Logi pilots could as easily decided to split three ways the loot of 8 faction fit Nightmares just by not repping. Hell, they could fake a disconnect and probably not lose much of a reputation.

There's plenty of risk to high sec incursions, it's just avoided by most. It would only take a small effort to suddenly make taking a 10bil ISK incursion fleet an inherent risk.


3) Incursion volume. 100mil an hour is really only reachable if you and your 9-10 pilots with you are on at a non peak time and have the rules roost of a system. Within a day of an incursion opening, it's common to see 5-10 fleets in every VG system competing for the sites. There isn't any way that all of those fleets are making 100mil an hour, in fact some would be lucky to be making 30. The popularity of the Incursions in high sec in fact creates the bottleneck that means the 100mil/hr incursion teams are kept to a minimum and to off peak hours.

I'm split in my mind on them. I think I can make too much an hour doing them for sure. But that peak of making 100mil+ an hour just isnt consistent enough to use it as some kind of average. Whilst you can make that in Assaults/HQ's. They require the man-power and organisation to do it and I don't feel there is much of an issue there.

For all those complaining about Nullsec being lazy and Incursion being the only way to compete. Highsec should never push out that much income. So yes, Incursions should be nerfed a bit, but at the same time, Sov needs to be harder to keep, This will encourage more people to take more Sov, making the entire game more interesting.

Fair enough.

The major problem as i see it is availability for isk income in null sec. If the null sec systems can sustain more then three people at once we wouldnt see them over here, and people will not have to have an empire alt to provide isk for their needs.

As it is now, most of the systems are worthless to live in for the regular member and can sustain one person at max for isk generating activity, except mining but that is another story..

Not talking about certein "alliances, coalitions" pollitics about refund and such, which pretty much cut out the need for isk as you get what you need.

Null sec just cant handle thousands of people in three systems per region worth being in.
Hail to anomalies nerf. Hail to buff anomalies which solves exactly nothing.

Still there is no droping to zero .. you can get 5 alpha tornadoes move in .. alpha two of their logistics and watch how it cramble down. There is no zero risk except when you are docked. The major risk difference is in moving.. when in high you move from point A to point B more safely then in null .. /low

Have you ever heard of this thing called signature radius? Alpha tornadoes won't hit guardians for ****, and if the fleet notices that people are trying to break their rep chain somehow, they can just ******* warp out. You're a dumb-ass. High sec incursions are zero risk for shitloads of isk.

Warp scramble rats are quite frequent, there's a reason why suicide blackbird fleets work well.

Claiming zero risk is a dumb-ass statement.




Agree on the social aspect of things, it's been a huge +win in getting people in space and fleeting up. However there is a direct competition, it's called the other fleet who hit the gate when you did and plan to take the site from you.

As for the raiding comment, the only mentality is that people expect you to come prepared and with a decent fit. That's not a raid mentality at all, that's general gaming mentality, PvP FC's don't take s##t fits most of the time either. Your choices in game do have an effect on your ability to exist, because suddenly you're a damn sight richer.




Here's the crutch. Highsec logistics is easy, infact I dare say it's too easy. Play the healer role in other games and there's an issue of resource management. Two 5-1 Basi's capchaining at Logi V? They can go rep all day.

So they're making easy isk for minimal effort. Why waste that opportunity on the possibility of asploding a fleet and being blackmarked by a community that talks from group to group at the higher levels?

You're replying to all the wrong things. Why bother with highsec 4s, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with lowsec plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. Why bother with 0.0 ratting or anomalies or plexing, since highsec incursions make more money. The risk:reward ratio is entirely screwed and it falls to us, the people who are out there in low-sec and null-sec risking our ships on a daily base to say hey, why can these people make hundreds of millions of isk with close to no risk (oh no, suicide blackbirds, what will we do? oh right guardians have a slot for eccm and have ridiculous base Radar strength) under the close protection of CONCORD?

DO:

If you see something wrong in the game address it from the game side.

I hear you saying these guys are making too much money but I don't hear you saying you are going to assemble a group of like-minded players and conspire to wreck their "isk press".

They have the ability to "farm" the incursions because from the looks of it they built up a community. Destroy it. Infiltrate. Train logi with some friends, work your way in and harvest tears.

Gank them. If you don't bring enough DPS. Bring more DPS next time.

Be the next The Mittani...make a name for your self interdicting incursions.

DON'T:

Look at what other players are doing and complain to a higher authority that its not fair that is just the other side of the QQ coin...

Corps are always starved for good players. Unless you are as worth as a large collidable object you should not have that much issues finding one.

Sure you can argue that the CSM is representing its constituents, you can tell yourself that they're just jealous, you can convince yourself that they just want to keep hi-sec poor.

And then you can go and look at the PLEX price, and the inflation of mineral values and realise that maybe the endless fountain of isk coming from farming incursions is not the best thing for the Eve economy right now. You can't argue with the numbers.