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How many dreads can one large POS handle?

Author
The Shylock
FSG
#1 - 2012-01-07 16:54:04 UTC
Hi,

I want to set up a tower in W-Space and run some sites out there, but first I am doing some research on it. There are plenty of guides to setting up a POS, but none that really explain what sort of punishment such a POS can take. I know there are corporations and alliances in W-Space who use dreads to take down towers, and they can typically get 3 dreads into a system before the hole collapses, and if the system has a static WH big enough they'll probably just bring in some more from the new hole.

I plan to load up the POS completely on small, medium and large guns, ECM, Neuts, warp jammers, etc. (possibly even some domination large guns to leave more grid) and just have some of them offline so I can online them once I know what sort of targets I have to deal with.

The questions are:

How many dreads does it take for them to kill the tower no matter what I put on it?
How many large guns do I need to have online to kill a sieged dread?
How many large guns do I need to have online to kill a sieged dread if I use gunners?
Does it make sense to have energy neutralizers online against a sieged dread?

And the final question: Does the wormhole effect that doubles shield hitpoints also affect the shield HP of a control tower? ;-)

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

/TS

Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-01-07 17:54:07 UTC
You have gunners, right? Guns (and other defenses) on a POS are little more than a nuisance if they're not manned; they won't focus fire and a BS fleet will incap everything threatening before the Dread(s) show up.

As far as numbers go, I don't know but I'm sure someone who does will be along shortly.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-07 20:05:52 UTC
None.
The pos defences are there to slow down the enemy and annoy the sub caps enough to let you kill the dreads with a defence fleet.
If you do not actively defend your POS, you will lose it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#4 - 2012-01-07 20:08:56 UTC
I have killed large death star POSes with about 5 ravens before.

Defend it or lose it.
The Shylock
FSG
#5 - 2012-01-07 22:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: The Shylock
So, basically it's impossible for a small (less than 10 man) corp to operate a POS in W-Space without worrying about having their tower knocked down by one of the WH alliances.

That's a shame, I really thought W-Space was the one place left in EVE where you could do something small-scale without getting stomped on by the blob.

Still it'd be great to get some answers on how many gunners and large guns it takes to kill a dread, so if we do go ahead and launch this venture we get the optimal setting to defend our structure. I mean if you have 10 large pos guns and 2 neuts on a dread, would that not break his tank and kill him?

/TS
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#6 - 2012-01-07 23:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallianna Avenkarde
What class wormhole will you be living in?

Anything from C3 down you have nothing to worry about from dreads because they won't fit in your hole. Only dreads that are built there can be fielded so if you are dumb enough to let them pos up for a month to build a dread you deserve to lose your whole.

Solo dreads can be killed by MANNED pos guns. Doesnt take much to nuet out a sieged dread and ill a solo dread. And dread without a support fleet, once again, deserves to die.

Bak to what you expect to face in c3 and less, is mostly going to be small battleship, or BIG bomber fleets, in fact bombers are going to be your main problems in a c3 due to their small mass meaning your enemy can get a bunch in and out without collapsing their entrance.

With this in mind Large guns are uneeded. small/meds/nuets/webs/scrams/ecm. Lost of all, as the enemy fleet kills one, online the next, also offline everything you can ie refining arrays, anything superfluous that is not essential to defence should be offlined to bring on more hardners/guns/ewar. An unmanned pos is a dead pos.

make sure if you are in the pos, and it is going down hard, you manage your stront BEFORE the pos shields hit 25%, you want to make sure you time your stront to a time that is beneficil to you, i.e you can have max amount of people defending, OR if there is no chance of that, that it is 12 hours out of enemies peak tz, or for easy reference, 12 hours past when when you got the first notification. If you are going to lose the pos, make sure they have to alarm clock to do it :P

/end

edit: Wormhole effects only effect capsuleer piloted vessels, not pos or sleepers

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

Kate Lockwell
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#7 - 2012-01-08 01:01:09 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
What class wormhole will you be living in?

Anything from C3 down you have nothing to worry about from dreads because they won't fit in your hole. Only dreads that are built there can be fielded so if you are dumb enough to let them pos up for a month to build a dread you deserve to lose your whole.

Solo dreads can be killed by MANNED pos guns. Doesnt take much to nuet out a sieged dread and ill a solo dread. And dread without a support fleet, once again, deserves to die.

Bak to what you expect to face in c3 and less, is mostly going to be small battleship, or BIG bomber fleets, in fact bombers are going to be your main problems in a c3 due to their small mass meaning your enemy can get a bunch in and out without collapsing their entrance.

With this in mind Large guns are uneeded. small/meds/nuets/webs/scrams/ecm. Lost of all, as the enemy fleet kills one, online the next, also offline everything you can ie refining arrays, anything superfluous that is not essential to defence should be offlined to bring on more hardners/guns/ewar. An unmanned pos is a dead pos.

make sure if you are in the pos, and it is going down hard, you manage your stront BEFORE the pos shields hit 25%, you want to make sure you time your stront to a time that is beneficil to you, i.e you can have max amount of people defending, OR if there is no chance of that, that it is 12 hours out of enemies peak tz, or for easy reference, 12 hours past when when you got the first notification. If you are going to lose the pos, make sure they have to alarm clock to do it :P

/end

edit: Wormhole effects only effect capsuleer piloted vessels, not pos or sleepers


C4*, caps only fit in c5/c6 holes
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#8 - 2012-01-08 01:16:19 UTC
Kate Lockwell wrote:


C4*, caps only fit in c5/c6 holes

Thanks, wasn't sure about c4's hence I only stated the wh's I was 100% certain about :)

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#9 - 2012-01-08 01:17:17 UTC
I have bad news for you, no POS can withstand a sieged dread and support fleet. Even just 1 dread and a dozen BS/BC supporting it is too much for the biggest, nastiest deathstar POS ever created in eve. The reason is the dps output of POS's is a joke by capital ship standards. A POS simply cannot defend itself against any serious attacker on its own.

Your POS defense comes from the fleet you can muster to defend it, not anything you're tossing on your POS. That said, a well fit POS can give your defending fleet a pretty solid edge. The DPS output of a POS may not be stellar against capitals, but it is pretty effective against subcapitals assuming you can track them. POS's can also be covered in all sorts of nasty EW. A few points, webs and neuts will cause all sorts of problems for enemy subcaps.

If you use your POS to support your fleet rather than trying to make it work independently, you can take on a force much larger than your own. Use the POS to tackle targets, shut down logi and prevent hostile ships from shooting back at your own. If you can manage this, your little 10 man BS/BC gang can crush the 20-30 support ships protecting their dreads. Once those are down, the dreads are easy targets.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#10 - 2012-01-08 01:27:18 UTC
a small 10 person corp probably shouldn't be trying to set up in a c5/c6 where you can run dreads into anyway.. at least unless all 10 people log in every single day.

you should probably start in a c2 or c3 to get a feel for it, no one can jump dreads into those holes.
if you look on the market forums you might even be able to buy a hole that comes with essentially a free dread/carrier or two since you can't even take them out of the hole
The Shylock
FSG
#11 - 2012-01-08 03:03:54 UTC
Ok, that makes sense, setting up in a C4 will probably be the trick then. The reason we wanted a C5 was so we could use carriers ourselves to do the sites, but I guess the security trade-off is simply too big.

Thanks for all the answers and info, given some food for thought!

/TS
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-08 19:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
It is worth mentioning that there are really only 4 reasons people will take the time and effort to shoot a POS in a WH:

1. they think they'll get loot from it. eg: a single POS with 4 floating capitals in it.
2. they get paid to do it by someone who doesnt like you.
3. you **** them off in some way. eg: not honouring ransoms against AHARM is a great way to get stomped on, just ask firebird squadron :P
4. they want your specific WH. this is easily avoided by picking a standard WH that is not obviously better than any other WH.

if you stick something like 10 guns, 24 ECM, few neuts and tackle on a POS and don't leave expensive ships floating, it is unlikely anyone will attack it without reason.
as a note, i would highly recommend filling any spare slots on your corp's accounts with noob alts and having them all join corp.
no it won't help you in an actual fight, but if you have 15 people in your corp with 1 toon each, everyone can see that you're a 15 man corp which most likely can't defend itself.
fill those slots up and your corp is now a 45 man corp which might be able to.

finally, always use a large POS.
i know several people who will automatically drop a dread on a small/med POS in a c5-6 out of principle.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-08 20:34:35 UTC
Yes outside of the c5/c6 arena you should be better able to defend. As others have posted above you can setup to be less of a target. Between the lack of caps, mass limits, etc bashing a pos in w-space is a PITA. Really the main threat would be someone wanting your system. Otherwise it is usually someone wanting pos candy or looking for a fight (bait out your caps).

I know on a bash I was on awhile back we went after this one system and reinforced the first tower (looking for candy). When we warped to the second tower they had pos gunners. Those gunners managed to pop a couple shiny ships where we decided it wasn't worth the isk to go after that one.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#14 - 2012-01-08 22:25:48 UTC
2-3 get the job done in short order, but they will need escort.
Obax Bannon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-09 13:17:49 UTC
The Shylock wrote:
Hi,


And the final question: Does the wormhole effect that doubles shield hitpoints also affect the shield HP of a control tower? ;-)





Wormhole effects appy to what your flying in only.
Not the sleepers, pos or any of the pos mods
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#16 - 2012-01-09 14:40:09 UTC
Quote:
setting up in a C4 will probably be the trick then.

IMHO, definitely the way to go. We learned in a C2, then moved up to a C4. The lack of a HS static in the C4 is great, the downside is that you will often have K162s (randoms) appear in your w-space that come from C5/C6. Most of the time, you will simply be on the route from the C5/C6 to HS; however, if they (or someone else) decides to take you out, there are several ways to make that more painful:
1. During 'normal' operations, there are two main options:
- EWAR out the nose (like, 20 or 30) to make it a pain in the ass to take down with a sub-cap fleet; or
- Load up on guns, so that small fleets will still be discomfited by the DPS.

Neither of those options will save you POS against a determined fleet; however, it may slow them down while you get your forces together to defend, and if it is not a determined fleet, they will go elsewhere.

2. During siege (after you have come under attack), you have lots of options:
- Have lots of extra defense arrays (neuts, webs, damps, scrams, guns, ECM, etc) anchored, even though you do not have near enough grid to use them all. When you see what you are up against, you can vary the arrays online/offline to fit the aggressors force.
- Use the POS ECM to form an EWAR cloud for a defense fleet. If you put 40 or so ECM mods online (even w/o POS gunners), your defense fleet will be near invulnerable to anything but a massive assault fleet. You can pretty much take out a single T3 or BS and fly around their attack fleet shooting them up while they can't do crap (except for their drones and/or bombers).
- If you have several gunners online (3 or 4 preferably), you can screw up logistic support and pick off ships one by one.


Just some notes - the new online/offline times are awesome for re-configuring your POS defense.

You CAN build carriers in C4s, they just will live/die there.