Ships & Modules

the funny part is that this is his ideal setup. he would like to see the thorax this way =p
atm it doesnt fit =p

alos if this is how you would like to see the thorax drop 2 neutrons for ions and it will fit and you lose close to no dps.
super troll fit though.

you comapre a kiting setup on a rupture to ships that are no designed to run it.
then you compare rail fittings to ACs fittings.
then you come up with a super fail troll fit saying you would like to be able to fit that, which you already can w/o any change to the ship losing only 13dps by downgrading 2 guns.

so i think you are the one missing the point here buddy.

you have no idea what you are talking about. you dont fly the ships you are talking about.
you dont know how to fit them right. and the tier system got nothing to do with the fact that a rupture can fit 425s hams on a nano kiting setup while a maller cant fit MPL.

posting more fits that do not fit wount make you less of a troll.

Yes, have you tried reading the thread? ;)

Yea there are better examples but the thorax needs a little love at least =)

T1 ships are designed for younger players with lower skill levels, not for PVP vets. It doesn't matter what you can fit with your L5 fitting skillz. T2 fits are invalid. Discussion is pointless.

Many cruisers are quite good given there cost. To name a few: arbitrator, rupture, blacbird, stabber.

Consider a fleet of 20 T1 fit arbitrators (t1 armor plates, drones, tracking disruptors, etc.) versus a fleet of 20 T2 fit shield canes. Each T1 fit arbitrator costs less than 4 million isk. Each t2 hurricane costs more than 40 million isk. Each arbitrator will do over 200 dps, have around 25-30k ehp and have tracking disruptors (with bonuses) that significantly reduce the dps of over 2/3 the ships in EVE (including the hurricanes).

The arbitrators will almost certainly kill 4-6 of the canes (probably more) before they are wiped out, assuming they have a competent fc. 4 t2 fit hurricanes cost no less than 160 million. 20 t1 arbitrators cost no more than 80 million.

Who won the isk war? Who's KB scores look better? The T1 arbitrators. And a completely new player can get into a t1 arbitrator in their first week.

You can do a similar analysis with ruptures, and blackbirds are actively used by many nullsec alliances in engagements every day. So three races have t1 cruisers that are very cost effective (only reason I didn't name gallente is because I have no experience flying gallente).

With low skills you can't even fit 4. T1 cruisers don't need to good allround ships, they must be able to fill their nice:

The mining/logi cruisers might need a boost in fittings/hp. An osprey should be able to run 4 medium remote reppers with some resist tank remaining. This doesn't step on the toes of the basilisk but does turn the osprey in a combat capable force mutiplier. Similar tweakes need to be applied to the other logi/mining ships. Tracking links are very meh and the Scythe only has a small bonus to this. More a little tweak is needed there. I don't know anything about their mining capabilities but these are probably ok. (between frig and more specialized ships)
The EWAR ships suffer from the EWAR they're attached too. Blackbird is great in fleets, Celestis less so. This also depends on the size of the bonus they provide.
The eight remaining ships are pew pew ships and their big problem is the existence of better ships for those roles for little extra (r)isk: the BC's. Why fly a rupture if you can use a cane, why a maller if you've got a prophecy, etc. If you want to make t1 combat cruisers useful they need to be able to avoid a powerfull foe .

Can you name any more? 1 or two at most, I'd wager. How many t1 cruisers are there in total? 20 or so?

Yeah, that's a problem there. That's what tiericide is for. Not buffing the good ones (they are fine) but buffing the crap ones to match them.

Scythe is crap. I mean, OK, I have PVP'ed in one, for the luls, and even scored kills. Sure, it may not have any useable combat bonuses (tracking links don't count...usually) and not be intended for combat...but really. It could use an extra mid and lowslot and enough PG to fit a tank as well.

Bellicose is meh, but again, I've flown nanocose's into battle with gangs and scored kills. The TP bonus doesn't help anyone, least of all the Bellicose itself, because then you have absolutely no use to the gang from lack of point or tank. Most of all, it would be nice if you could use the MWD for more than 2 cycles. The nanocose goes 2300m/s before overheat but only for 40s. Wtf useless at kiting.

Stabber and Ruppy are fine.

The Exequror is a beastly T1 logi, best of them all, I will rickroll anyone who says its a crap mining cruiser. Just ain't so.

I've soloed in Celestis' before, you can almost manage to completely range damp another cruiser. So if you pick a noob in a Ruppy you can sit in total invulnerability at 23km and hope your drones don't get popped and hope your capacitor lets you run your MWD long enough to escape. Oh, wait, no. No kills yet in a Celestis.

Vexor and Thorax are fine. Vexor could use better cap life as well in its 'poverty ishtar' role.

Augoror...I don't even want to talk about the Augoror. The rest of the Amarr lineup are decent; maller bait tackle, Arby TD+drones, Omen with small guns does OK, but I agree it should be able to fit Heavy Pulses mostly because...there's no point to the whole gorram weapon class if the Omen can't because none of the other ships can fit them either.

Osprey is fine as it is - an AFK POS repper and can flipper killer.
BB is fine.
Moa is now fine as long as you T1 the guns for cheapness and accept the fact you're going to die gloriously.
Caracal is fine, just don't fly it like a drake is all.

Thats my 2c.

My fixes, aside from more cap for the tier 2 hulls to enhance their ability to run MWD's (at risk of making everything a neut boat), would be to give the Scythe projected ECCM or Remote Sensor Booster buff.