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The "Wrong" way to fly? Need Suggestions
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Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#1 - 2012-01-06 06:19:44 UTC
So I took upon myself a challenge to fly Level 1 to Level 4 missions in nothing but Gallente Blaster Boats. It started with an Incursus (which was later upgraded to a Catalyst), then moved onto a MWD Thorax, and is presently a MWD, Cap Booster fit Brutix, found here:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58143-Brutix-Level-3-Blaster-Fit.html#msg826163

I'm having an absolute blast using blasters and webs for close-range fighting. It's quick, it's intense, it requires active monitoring of everything to get it done right, and I love it. It might not be as effective as a Myrmidon, but I feel it's certainly more fun.

I've run into an issue, however. The next boat on the chain is the Megathron (and a Navy Mega at some point, but first things first). I've toyed around with some fittings and finding one huge problem. The Megathron doesn't have the CPU required to fit a full T2 fit of Neutron Blasters with a Heavy Cap Booster, MWD, two Stasis Webs, full tank, and two mag stabs. I was barely able to get it to fit in EVE HQ's fitting tool using Ions and four Faction mods!

My question is, is Battlecruiser really the end of the line for flying something unorthodox? Do I have to actually fit the Cap Rechargers (which I'm loathe to do after learning the glory and awesome that are Cap Boosters) just to get a fully effective ship? Or is there another hull you guys recommend that gives you some wiggle room on what you can fit to it and still stay effective?

Any and every recommendation on doing things "wrong" is welcome!

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2012-01-06 06:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
The largest weapons are supposed to compromise fits in other ways.

Without your fit, can only generalise.

I think the faction hardeners are really good sources of CPU savings against T2. I think I switched 2 of those to get a T2 gun dominix to fit again post patch with the extra CPU taken by the T2 omni's and drone link aug vs the T1 I was using before the patch. Same final stats but less isk in space than using navy omni's (and I already had the faction hardeners, and I don't own any navy omnis).

also I'm loathe to go back to cap rechargers after getting used to a booster. I like having utility mids!
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2012-01-06 07:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aestivalis Saidrian
[Megathron, RAPETRAIIIN]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Large Armor Repairer II
N-Type EM Hardener I
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

All Level 5 guy was able to do it vaguely.

Some suggestions:
Most of the time, Meta 4 is Good Enough. Mostly. (See N-Type Armor Hardeners. 6 less cap, 20 less CPU, 5% less resist)
If you downgrade the Stasis Web IIs to X5 Engine Enervators, you gain 18 CPU from that alone.
Change to a Afterburner rather then a MWD. Sure you won't go ALL THE FAST but you'll take MUCH less damage.

Like so.

[Megathron, RAPETRAIIIN]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
N-Type Explosive Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
LiF Fueled Booster Rockets

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


For the fit above, change the Armor Hardeners as needed. G'luck! I'm really considering training a Talos because Dakka and I fly Minmatar/Ammar.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2012-01-06 07:56:29 UTC
I wouldn't choose a repper + plate and trimarks fit for what the OP is trying to do (mission with blasters). He will get webbed and scrammed in level 4s flying in the way he intends to fly.

Missions don't alpha battleships, and he is liable to fly towards things that are damaging him - thus putting the overall efficiency of his tank in question, repper + plate is not an efficient solution. You can see the general gist of the solution in his brutix.

i'd be suprised if that can carry enough cap charges to finish all of the missions in a typical gallente agent mix. I get fairly borderline in a dominix with essentially a 50km optimal that is essentially range tanking a portion of the damage.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#5 - 2012-01-06 07:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aestivalis Saidrian
Fair enough. I'm not sure how'd you get another repper on. Though with rolled Tungsten plates and no Trimarks, he only loses 5m/s with an Afterburner. It's able to crank out more damage but I don't know. My only real experience with Gallente battleships is AFK Tank.

[Hyperion, Missioner Setup]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Damage Control II
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

The bad news is, no way in hell are you getting that Cap Booster on there.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#6 - 2012-01-06 10:22:02 UTC
Silly me - forgot.


My dominix fit uses a Medium Capacitor Booster. Med boosters still fit 800s, and the process of firing a single 800, and reloading it, generates 2 reps worth of cap, and takes 2 reps worth of time. The guns run on the natural dominix regen.

You cannot perma run the MWD anyway - as (a) it will blow out your sig/tanking totally, and (b) you can't physically bring enough cap 800s to run it that much in a long mission without having to go fetch more. I'd suggest running navy charges for the first go at more difficult missions too, to give you more run time - you'll get scrammed more often than a ranged drone boat does.


I have to pulse my repper and generally be careful to shoot triggers properly at all times as it is, otherwise my alt will be needing to drop me spare boosters from the noctis. (I can do ALL of the missions without this, but I don't always get it right - its just handy to know that I can burn them if I make a mistake to keep the repper going and the alt will stop me needing to warp).

The medium booster is fine because it will feed all of the 800s you can fit into cargo, over the duration of your mission, it will just not be able to manage the peak utilisation of a non pulsed repper and a non pulsed MWD, and it will free 15 cpu, and considerable grid.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#7 - 2012-01-06 14:57:42 UTC
Did some tinkering, and managed to squeeze this out:


[Megathron, Abomination II]

7x Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I (Antimatter Charge L)

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)
2x X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Large Armor Repairer II
2x Armor Thermic Hardener II
2x Armor Kinetic Hardener II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

2x Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II
5x Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I

Tanks 712 DPS against Guristas, which might well be a little overkill, but do the Abomination well in close quarters when things get hairy. Without the MWD running, the cap's stable at 79%, so cap charges won't be wasted too quickly.

MWD Velocity is still 929 m/s, which is acceptable to my standards.

DPS is 689 (848 with the Hammers), and there's some PG and CPU to spare. If I upgraded these at a later date to T2 Ions, this would barely fit at the bonus of 21 additional DPS with Anti-Matter (didn't get a chance to look at the T2 ammo, though, so that might well change), but I'd have to swap out the T2 repper for a IN Repper (which still might not be a bad idea).

And as pointed out, when burning towards targets, I'm gonna be visible on the other side of the system, so the additional rep will be good. And let's be frank: If this goes horribly horribly wrong, I'll just have to set up the Mega to fly like it's supposed to, and look for another Battleship hull to be a little crazy in! *laughs*

How's that look, so far?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#8 - 2012-01-06 15:25:14 UTC
Wrong? This is the proper way to fly. Nevermind min/max, have some fun with it!

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-06 17:01:09 UTC
Good responses in the thread.... offering one other area for your consideration.... NOT in place of these recommendations, but as another avenue for you to consider.

First, the obvious, and no criticism/insult intended.... are the training levels reasonably high on the skills that would reduce the CPU requirements of the preferred mods? Are there Meta variants of the preferred mods that would still do the job to a comparable degree with lower baseline CPU requirements?

Last, a more expensive option requiring a bit of up-front math.... there are Skill Implants out there that boost CPU output for whatever ship you're flying... the mid-range implant (+3% iirc) isn't particularly pricey, the high-end (+5% iirc) IS a bit pricey.... would either of those implants get the ships' baseline CPU output near to what you need? Particularly if you were able to squeeze out further CPU efficiency as queried above.....

Best of luck and have fun!
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#10 - 2012-01-06 18:56:52 UTC
So, I thought about it, and then I realized that Ion would be really good.

[Megathron, Ion Setup]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Cap Recharger II

Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Change EANMs to mission specific hardeners.
1052m/s Velocity, 745 DPS with no drones, better tracking. EHP is a little low but with mission specific hardeners, not so much. With a flight of Ogre IIs, breaks 1ks DPS. If you use CN AM ammo; you get 1173 DPS with Ogre IIs. Void ammo gets it up to 1272. Can tank 463 DPS as long as the capp booster holds out.

[Hyperion, Ion Setup]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Cap Recharger II

Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Then there's this:
The tank is pretty decent, able to tank 480 DPS as long as the holds out. The real downfall is the lack of extra low slot of the Megathron, which wouldn't care that much for the extra webber due to the tracking bonus. Hammerhead II flight is what a Hyperion can fly.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2012-01-06 22:17:44 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
The Megathron doesn't have the CPU required to fit a full T2 fit of Neutron Blasters with a Heavy Cap Booster, MWD, two Stasis Webs, full tank, and two mag stabs. I was barely able to get it to fit in EVE HQ's fitting tool using Ions and four Faction mods!


Both Neutron Blaster Cannon IIs and 425 IIs hit this particular impasse with CPU. However, there's a rig that does quite a bit to help: Large Algid Hybrid Administration. I've been pleasantly surprised with the fits it opens up on the Mega.

Having said that, my current blaster mission toy looks like this:

[Astarte, mishin cheap]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

It managed Blockade, at least, so that's something.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#12 - 2012-01-06 23:30:01 UTC
Best of luck with your fits, I have done similar for a change of pace.

When I was doing it, I prefered the rokh to the mega, and the hype to the rokh. But, I found the Fleet Typhoon to be more fun, since I absolutely love the effect torpedos have.

Here is an off the way fit I was playing with in Sisi, that was doing very well against the Blood Raider missions I was testing it on:

[Dominix Navy Issue, Blood l4]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Target Painter II
Stasis Webifier II
100MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II

Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ogre II x5
Curator II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x10
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

The Stats @ all level V were 756dps tank against bloods, 371m/s (MWD not as important with drones+blasters) 972dps, which was TBH a bit underwhelming against blood raiders resists, then again I know with my skills it is more like 800 or so. The Target Painter and dual webs though, allows serious damage to be applied even to smaller ships. I am sure it could be made much more ganky, this ship was over tanked TBH.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2012-01-07 08:32:09 UTC
I think you would want to either keep it small and go with a proteus or go all out and get a kronos.

1187 dps and 1600m/s cap stable!!!
[Proteus, pve blasters]
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Dark Blood Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Large Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


oh ****, I think I'm gonna go buy one in a few mins, I needs it!


but also a neutron mega seems to fit just fine with lv 5 skills, single rep, heavy cap booster II, quad lif mwd.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Hamatitio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-01-07 19:30:41 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I think you would want to either keep it small and go with a proteus or go all out and get a kronos.

1187 dps and 1600m/s cap stable!!!
[Proteus, pve blasters]
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Dark Blood Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Large Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


oh ****, I think I'm gonna go buy one in a few mins, I needs it!


but also a neutron mega seems to fit just fine with lv 5 skills, single rep, heavy cap booster II, quad lif mwd.


Would probably get better damage with 3 damage mods and a TE, the extra fall off will help to increase damage on approach, and the extra tracking will help to pop frigs while you are waiting on the web to slow down another target :)
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#15 - 2012-01-07 21:29:20 UTC
You may want to take a look at Ion Blasters, they have nearly the same DPS , only slightly less range but are easier to fit. I would also recommend to check the Proteus instead of the Mega as the ship after the Brutix, I think it is possible to get Proteus cap stable with blasters, an armor repairer and a MWD, when the MWD is not constantly active.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#16 - 2012-01-08 12:46:19 UTC
Yes, like Chainsaw's fit directly above you ^^

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#17 - 2012-01-09 03:40:58 UTC
Chainsaw, that Proteus setup looks like a lot of fun, actually! While I don't bleed ISK yet, that might be a good thing to train for!

The added bonus is it's one of the more attractive configurations for a Proteus I've seen so far!

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Dimitryy
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#18 - 2012-01-09 23:27:00 UTC
I like the proteus, but if your lookin for a MegaT without faction, heres one that works


[Megathron, New Setup 1]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
100MN MicroWarpdrive II

Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Add drones to taste.

Its got CPU issues, but the algid cures it. Obviously hardeners switch with the mission. Cap is a problem, even with the boosters, but it is fun and involving to fly.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#19 - 2012-01-10 04:17:27 UTC
Dimitryy, just out of curiosity, does it have 25s in the Cap Booster intentionally?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#20 - 2012-01-10 06:05:37 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
Dimitryy, just out of curiosity, does it have 25s in the Cap Booster intentionally?


no that would be a mistake - the 2 reps will burn a cap 800 in a single cycle. 25s are fairly meaningless for battleship cap economies, won't burn fast enough.

It looks like a blitz fit to me, as I would seek a 4th resist piece to get better effective hps repped (after resists) per cargo of cap booster, and not worry so much about burst rep. if the pilot is say shooting triggers, ignoring irrelevents to get objective and leave though, this fit is probably the best to use.
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