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Investigation on D-ston, Report
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Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2012-01-18 08:43:19 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
We refused to compromise?

We started off by wanting to inspect their facilities.

When this was unacceptable to them without the presence of terrorists, we offered them the presence of neutral observers.

When this was still unacceptable to them we offered to forget about the inspection and instead asked for a manifest.

And they still refused.

We've done little but compromise during this whole affair.

They have been given every opportunity to defend themselves, but they have continually refused. And now it would appear that they are even refusing to speak in public about this despite originally insisting that this was how they wanted things to proceed.

Clearly they have something nefarious to hide.


Clearly they dont want some Imperial lackeys poking around in buisness they have nothing to do with in the first place.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-01-18 08:44:55 UTC
They operate within imperial space, this is very much our business.
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-01-18 09:30:41 UTC
I operate within Imperial space yet i never recall receiving a search order from PIE, is this because you prefer to go against those that cant defend themselves?

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#84 - 2012-01-18 10:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Khazarn Areth wrote:
I operate within Imperial space yet i never recall receiving a search order from PIE, is this because you prefer to go against those that cant defend themselves?


You may recall that this is not the first investigation that we've carried out, and previously investigated parties such as No.Mercy have been more than capable of defending themselves.

Maybe you've never been investigated because your blasphemies are in plain sight for all to see.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#85 - 2012-01-18 11:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Jaiga
I've been reading through here and while I (of course) agree with my comrades, I have an entirely different point to raise.


Not to doubt the incredible capabilities of PIE Inc, but shouldn't this be left to the MIO? Or do you doubt your own government's prowess in investigating even capsuleers? I'm quite certain if the Disciples of Ston were breaking Imperial law they'd have been arrested, kicked out of Empire space, or at least added to the Amarr Imperial Navy's kill-on-sight list.

Perhaps by doing less you can do more.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2012-01-18 12:54:18 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
I've been reading through here and while I (of course) agree with my comrades, I have an entirely different point to raise.


Not to doubt the incredible capabilities of PIE Inc, but shouldn't this be left to the MIO? Or do you doubt your own government's prowess in investigating even capsuleers? I'm quite certain if the Disciples of Ston were breaking Imperial law they'd have been arrested, kicked out of Empire space, or at least added to the Amarr Imperial Navy's kill-on-sight list.

Perhaps by doing less you can do more.


So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#87 - 2012-01-18 13:02:49 UTC
A little slaving piglet tried to stick her little pink nose into a trough that wasnt hers, got caught, and began to squeal in protest that it was all the trough owner's fault.

Perhaps her keepers should have stuck an apple in her mouth to prevent further squealing?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#88 - 2012-01-18 13:29:38 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object?

If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt.

But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting?
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#89 - 2012-01-18 13:32:01 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object?

If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt.

But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting?


Those outlaws are the friends of the Militia, Rek... as evinced by the 9 or so outlaw, non-militia carriers the 24th IC called to their aid during the battle at the bunker in Siseide.

Morality and legality mean whatever the good Admiral wants them to mean at the moment he utters the word. No more. No less.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#90 - 2012-01-18 13:35:29 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object?

If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt.

But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting?


I fail to see what being a pacifist has to do with this. I imagine that you'd still be pretty angry if someone stole your property but did so without violence.

Anyway, removal of another's property without permission (aka theft) is one crime that springs to mind. Receiving stolen goods is another.

And by the way, setting one corporation red does not prevent us from opposing what you describe as "actual outlaw gangs."

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2012-01-18 13:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Ava Starfire wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object?

If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt.

But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting?


Those outlaws are the friends of the Militia, Rek... as evinced by the 9 or so outlaw, non-militia carriers the 24th IC called to their aid during the battle at the bunker in Siseide.

Morality and legality mean whatever the good Admiral wants them to mean at the moment he utters the word. No more. No less.


Once again, I remind you that we have in past investigated the activities of militia corporations.

It's funny how the usual anti-Amarrian crowd didn't claim that we had no right to do so when it happened.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#92 - 2012-01-18 13:46:27 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

I fail to see what being a pacifist has to do with this. I imagine that you'd still be pretty angry if someone stole your property but did so without violence.

Anyway, removal of another's property without permission (aka theft) is one crime that springs to mind. Receiving stolen goods is another.


Of course I'd be angry. But if said person was rather clearly unarmed, I at least know they've no violent intent. And so would I punish their perceived theft with violence? No. Violence is very rarely an appropriate response to anything, particularly quite ostensively unarmed theft.

Accuse them of theft, sure. Present evidence, even. But shoot them? You're mad, and shaming whatever reputation the Empire has earned for itself in the areas of patience and humility.

Keep walking around with your head high and a self-endowed sense of importance and authority. The Ultimate Authority will lay you low and humble.

Rodj Blake wrote:

And by the way, setting one corporation red does not prevent us from opposing what you describe as "actual outlaw gangs."


Ah, but as a great and noble Admiral surely you understand time management and what an "opportunity cost" is. If your pilots are conducting investigations of pacifists accused of theft, they are not fighting outlaws that your dear Empire hates (Sansha, Guristas, Blood Raiders, to name the big ones). One cannot be in two places at once.
Bai'xao Meiyi
#93 - 2012-01-18 13:53:19 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:

Keep walking around with your head high and a self-endowed sense of importance and authority. The Ultimate Authority will lay you low and humble.


Of course the ultimate authority; the red God, would lay these heretics low and humble.
Ran'shad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-01-18 16:10:24 UTC
I would have expected the Disciples to be more vocal on this topic.....and yet we have not heard fromthem for several days now. This is very uncharacteristic of them, as they seem to love to blather on ad nauseum at the drop of a hat. What has changed??? Why the sudden silence? What are they up to?

I would humbly suggest that the matriculation centres be put under ongoing and covert observation, as the disciples are so fond of saying they (the centres) are run by their own councils.....what is stopping them from the councils - in the spirit of self-determination - have not chosen to arm and prepare to fight any effort by Amarrian authorities to inspect them?

High Lord Ran'Shad CEO Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment Elemental Tide Alliance
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#95 - 2012-01-18 16:20:33 UTC
Ran'shad wrote:
I would have expected the Disciples to be more vocal on this topic.....and yet we have not heard fromthem for several days now. This is very uncharacteristic of them, as they seem to love to blather on ad nauseum at the drop of a hat. What has changed??? Why the sudden silence? What are they up to?

I would humbly suggest that the matriculation centres be put under ongoing and covert observation, as the disciples are so fond of saying they (the centres) are run by their own councils.....what is stopping them from the councils - in the spirit of self-determination - have not chosen to arm and prepare to fight any effort by Amarrian authorities to inspect them?



Poor form, a bit of simple forum reading would answer that question for you.


Also Admiral Blake, since when was it your duty to police other corporations in regards to theft and property? Surely if the party who discarded these rescued people feel grieved they'd have done something about it themselves.

You're trying to justify little more than the concept of shooting fish in a barrel.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2012-01-18 16:31:03 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Ran'shad wrote:
I would have expected the Disciples to be more vocal on this topic.....and yet we have not heard fromthem for several days now. This is very uncharacteristic of them, as they seem to love to blather on ad nauseum at the drop of a hat. What has changed??? Why the sudden silence? What are they up to?

I would humbly suggest that the matriculation centres be put under ongoing and covert observation, as the disciples are so fond of saying they (the centres) are run by their own councils.....what is stopping them from the councils - in the spirit of self-determination - have not chosen to arm and prepare to fight any effort by Amarrian authorities to inspect them?



Poor form, a bit of simple forum reading would answer that question for you.


As far as I know, their vow of silence does not extend to private communications. They could easily take measures to resolve this.

But I've heard nothing from them. Their silence speaks volumes.

It appears that they're perfectly happy to hide behind their Shaokorite shills, which doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that they're little more than a front organisation for an underground monorail.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#97 - 2012-01-18 17:08:46 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Ran'shad wrote:
I would have expected the Disciples to be more vocal on this topic.....and yet we have not heard fromthem for several days now. This is very uncharacteristic of them, as they seem to love to blather on ad nauseum at the drop of a hat. What has changed??? Why the sudden silence? What are they up to?

I would humbly suggest that the matriculation centres be put under ongoing and covert observation, as the disciples are so fond of saying they (the centres) are run by their own councils.....what is stopping them from the councils - in the spirit of self-determination - have not chosen to arm and prepare to fight any effort by Amarrian authorities to inspect them?



Poor form, a bit of simple forum reading would answer that question for you.


As far as I know, their vow of silence does not extend to private communications. They could easily take measures to resolve this.

But I've heard nothing from them. Their silence speaks volumes.

It appears that they're perfectly happy to hide behind their Shaokorite shills, which doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that they're little more than a front organisation for an underground monorail.


You still need to find evidence for such accusations though, I've found "having a hunch" doesn't go as far to proving anything, even if you're right afterwards. It tends to get you labelled as reckless and various other insults about your judgemental capacities.

In this I believe diplomacy has failed on both sides and burned the bridge rather hard at both ends. I suggest a neutral middleman at this point that both sides approve of to handle this discussion further, as it seems direct contact has little effect more than trying to relight the charred remains of what bridge their was.

Also the language used here by either side is hardly a great tone of showing a will to use diplomacy, I suppose that was doomed from the start with the terrible efforts of first contact by one side, and the manner which it was handled by the other though.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2012-01-18 18:17:34 UTC
I'm quite happy for further diplomacy to happen, but as I've already said the silence from the Disciples speaks volumes.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-01-18 18:32:03 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
I'm quite happy for further diplomacy to happen, but as I've already said the silence from the Disciples speaks volumes.


Maybe its because they have no interest in your threats and baseless accusations and have decided to simply ignore you.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#100 - 2012-01-18 19:07:04 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
We refused to compromise?

We started off by wanting to inspect their facilities.

When this was unacceptable to them without the presence of terrorists, we offered them the presence of neutral observers.

When this was still unacceptable to them we offered to forget about the inspection and instead asked for a manifest.

And they still refused.

We've done little but compromise during this whole affair.

They have been given every opportunity to defend themselves, but they have continually refused. And now it would appear that they are even refusing to speak in public about this despite originally insisting that this was how they wanted things to proceed.

Clearly they have something nefarious to hide.


After the way they were treated in the first place -- as though they were already guilty -- I'm not surprised they refused to hand over a manifest. First they were bullied, then they were threatened, and finally they were advised of violence actions being taken against their ships and crews.

Would you cooperate under those conditions?

As for the 'neutral party' issue -- you offered to include a neutral party, then dismissed the parties that were being suggested as 'terrorists' and refused to continue the discussion, falling back (again) on the 'they refuse to cooperate' defense. As far as I can determine, you didn't suggest any neutral parties of your own -- you just vetoed the one suggestion that was made and that was that.

Captain Blake, in all honesty, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you play games like that?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....