Missions & Complexes

We are coming.

In other words, I'm logical when I'm agreeing with you but illogical and trolling when I disagree with you?

I guess that works if you like being a biased moron

QED / QFT & XXSketchxx = Salazar

As should things that require multiple people working together, with the highest payouts being the things that require people working together in nullsec, and given that nullsec incursions pay out 40ish percent more than highsec ones I'd say this is as it should be.

Because they wouldn't go to lowsec, they'd just stop playing. As it stands, there's only one form of group oriented PVE in highsec, so at this point moving it to low/null would make it useless, as the main thing separating it from the rest of the game is that it IS in highsec.

As far as the potential goes, you're looking at maybe 120 an hour doing sites in highsec. Go to lowsec, and the higher payouts combined with far less competition means it should be viable to get 300 with a zealot/legion fleet. That's a pretty damn big difference.

What's really absurd about all this is that you're looking at what people at the very top are making, and using that as an argument against the rest of the guys running sites. 12 billion isk, 11 people working together (and NOT wandering off/going for bio breaks etc) combined with an agreement reached by literally thousands of players looking to work together to get the most out of sites is what you need to make good money in incursions. And even with all that, most people struggle to make 50mil an hour.

When there are people who can pull in 100 an hour doing missions, are you really going to whine that something that entails such a massive amount of people working together pays more at the high end? Nullsec still earns you more, if it's well secured and in decent space (CCP really needs to undo that nullsec nerf, that was probably the most stupid thing they've done in this game, including WiS).

And that's not even counting moon goo.

Moon goo is a good thing because that particular passive isk faucet is used by wise and noble people for wise and noble purposes, but incursion isk faucet is a bad things because .... ummm .... because??? Dang, I forgot that again.

Incursions are working as CCP intended, and they're working very well. Thousands of people are engaging with incursions, in a wide variety of ways. They're not broken and are not in need of being 'fixed'.

What it gets used for is irrelevant. It's a massive source of income that is available only in nullsec (and a mechanic in dire need of review).

The only problem with incursions is that the lower and sites make more isk/hour than the higher end sites (and worst of all this is because there is one assault and one HQ site that takes so damn long it makes them not worth running) The income is higher than solo highsec pve, lower than solo nullsec pve, and that is exactly where it should be.

As for risk: It is there, and it always has been. From suicide ganks, to logis getting their fleets killed, to agression mechanic exploits, not including DCs/pilot error (which actually becomes much more notable in the higher end sites, though it is not much in vanguards)

Like in all the nerf the incursion threads I've read this threat has a lot of exaggeration, especially when people start comparing different scources of income to each other. This only leads to unbelievable cases and escalating arguments...

What CCP has been trying to do for years is get more people to move in to low sec /null space. The main way of doing this is making it more profitable. Incursions were intended as a stepping stone towards this by getting people together in a fleet that more resembles the real fleets that are out there in non high sec space.

The fact that people are actually returning to high sec because incursions pay so wel for so little risk, to me is proof enough that it's not balanced.

One has only to look at the incursions itself to see where the problem lies. Vanguard sites are swamped with players while doing any assault or HQ sites you have little competition. To me all this makes it obvious that vangaurds should be reviewed and (slightly) nerfed in some way

I know this is a troll but, I think it's a fascinating question.

Why? Because the current profitability of Incursions takes away from the import of nullsec. And as we all know there is always one kid in the group with the best toy who doesn't want to share. If someone else brings a cool toy and shares it, the other guy usually ends up trying to break it.

And thus is why Incursions should be nerfs or so everyone in null thinks.

We're talking about top of the pack fleets here. 3 minutes from payout to payout is certainly doable. (back when I was soloing the sites with my vindi I could clear an NCO in 6 from payout to payout) I use that 3 minute mark to calculate the lowsec sites (keeping in mind that you have no competition and no one else running the other NCOs that you're not) at 15 mil a site, 3 minutes per site, 20 sites an hour, 300mil. Without competition what is only possible in theory in HS is actually viable in lowsec. In theory, you could make 210 mil in highsec, but you'll never actually see that number, simply because there is too much competition driving the number of available NCOs down, not even factoring in competition for sites you're currently running.

When I run my comparisons I tend to use numbers that assume you're at the absolute peak of what can be done in terms of skills/setups, and I assume you're at the very top of the pack when it comes to knowing how to actually do things. This is mostly because the only way to objectively compare things, as far as game balance is concerned, is to remove the player variable entirely by making the player on either side of the comparison evenly skilled, and the only way to ensure that is to assume that both sides play flawlessly (since there isn't really a way to numerically asses how skilled a player is IRL)

Not having to compete, and not having other people draining off the NCOs plays just as big a role in potential earnings as the extra payouts from the sites.