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Beginner exploration ship and fitting
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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-01-07 01:48:57 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
Thank you for all the replies, honestly, you can go OT as much as you want as long as it's related to exploring, i do not care since i am learning a lot from them.

I hit some WH in HS, i read some articles about them. Sometimes, you might not be able to come back, or get killed by other players. Let's say, i am in my Vexor which can clear every site in HS. Is the risk worth it to explore them? Or are they very dangerous, even in HS? Keep in mind that i might not be able to afford losing my brand-new-super-relatively-expensive-fully-fitted Vexor.


Your vexor will get close to instapopped by the sleeper rats in wormholes, if another player downs first.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#42 - 2012-01-07 02:06:03 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
Thank you for all the replies, honestly, you can go OT as much as you want as long as it's related to exploring, i do not care since i am learning a lot from them.

I hit some WH in HS, i read some articles about them. Sometimes, you might not be able to come back, or get killed by other players. Let's say, i am in my Vexor which can clear every site in HS. Is the risk worth it to explore them? Or are they very dangerous, even in HS?


Wherever you enter them, once inside a WH you are in 0.0 space. Read: everything (NPCs included) and everyone HURT and you cannot escape neither of them.



Souls Rei wrote:
Keep in mind that i might not be able to afford losing my brand-new-super-relatively-expensive-fully-fitted Vexor.


Quoting myself, since you should really take the advice:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

... don't hurry doing everything together, I suppose if you lose a fitted Vexor with your character age you might be quite set financially back.

Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and in low sec it's very easy to lose it until you get the knack of the low sec mechanics.


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Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-01-07 02:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Souls Rei
Good thing i asked here before my curiosity answered my question.
Well, i read somewhere that C1 WHs can be easily solo'd by a good fitted Cruiser, but i assume they meant T2,3 ones then. As an explorer, i'd really want to live in the-full-of-surprises-WH asap, looks attractive to me :3

And it's not exactly my Vexor i am so worried about, but more about being pod killed by bullies (lose my implants).
Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-01-07 03:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Souls Rei
Dbl post
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-01-07 03:13:26 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
Good thing i asked here before my curiosity answered my question.
Well, i read somewhere that C1 WHs can be easily solo'd by a good fitted Cruiser, but i assume they meant T2,3 ones then. As an explorer, i'd really want to live in the-full-of-surprises-WH asap, looks attractive to me :3

And it's not exactly my Vexor i am so worried about, but more about being pod killed by bullies (lose my implants).


Some cruisers. I've seen (and tried to kill) Gila's running C1 anoms. I've never bothered in a Vexor, although I have done them in a myrm.

But mostly you will need far more training first. Keep reminding yourself there is more to flying any ship than just the ability to sit inside. I remember training at least a month just on tanking skills to get a solid T2 tank. And then there are many other fitting skills to ensure that tank is cap stable etc.

It's hard when you start out to not want to rush into the bigger ships. Probably just about everyone makes that mistake.

Just for kicks I plugged a solid vexor fit into evemon for a brand new toon, and it was 36 days of training for all the key skills, not including scanning skills.

WH's are fun btw. I've only been playing about 9 months, but the last 4 have been living in a C1. It can be done. Just not at 3 weeks old.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#46 - 2012-01-07 03:18:36 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
And it's not exactly my Vexor i am so worried about, but more about being pod killed by bullies (lose my implants).


If you lose your ship in a wormhole you have a good chance of losing your exit -- in which case you're stuck. Unless you self destruct your pod, which means no implants. So if that's a concern, don't go there.

(I know this is off topic, but it seems relevant to bring up here: once you feel like venturing into risky space you'll want to invest in a jump clone to keep your pricey implants in high sec. This isn't really important going to low sec as it's very hard to lose a pod there, but it's something to keep in mind for WH space and null.)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#47 - 2012-01-07 08:44:36 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
Good thing i asked here before my curiosity answered my question.
Well, i read somewhere that C1 WHs can be easily solo'd by a good fitted Cruiser, but i assume they meant T2,3 ones then. As an explorer, i'd really want to live in the-full-of-surprises-WH asap, looks attractive to me :3

And it's not exactly my Vexor i am so worried about, but more about being pod killed by bullies (lose my implants).


The relevant information I posted above is that regardless of where you enter, every WH is 0.0 sec.

This means that with your current experience you will end up ganked and podded by players. NPCs might be soloable or not, but players will find you, expecially in WHs with hi sec access.

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Cherry Nobyl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-01-07 09:36:13 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Souls Rei wrote:
And it's not exactly my Vexor i am so worried about, but more about being pod killed by bullies (lose my implants).


If you lose your ship in a wormhole you have a good chance of losing your exit -- in which case you're stuck. Unless you self destruct your pod, which means no implants. So if that's a concern, don't go there.

(I know this is off topic, but it seems relevant to bring up here: once you feel like venturing into risky space you'll want to invest in a jump clone to keep your pricey implants in high sec. This isn't really important going to low sec as it's very hard to lose a pod there, but it's something to keep in mind for WH space and null.)



bookmark everything, especially the exit. edit it all later.

even if you lose your ship, the bm remains. unless you're bubbled, losing one's pod is still unlikely.
Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-01-09 17:21:27 UTC
After some thought, here's my Vexor fitting :


Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm

Analyzer I
10MN Afterburner I
Codebreaker I

Medium Armor Repairer I
Emergency Damage Control I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

Hammerhead I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Warrior I x5

T2s are being trained at the moment.

I will be using this to do radar/mag/hidden combat sites in LS (0.3-0.4), i heard that anomalies are not worth it.
Hope this one can last a while in LS without getting destroyed. I am also hesitating whether i should use cloaking or not because i need more DPS (T1 drones). Are there a lot of occasions where cloak saved your life?

Lastly, are there any tips you might want to give before i set off to LS in few days?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-01-09 17:27:38 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
After some thought, here's my Vexor fitting :


Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm

Analyzer I
10MN Afterburner I
Codebreaker I

Medium Armor Repairer I
Emergency Damage Control I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

Hammerhead I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Warrior I x5

T2s are being trained at the moment.

I will be using this to do radar/mag/hidden combat sites in LS (0.3-0.4), i heard that anomalies are not worth it.
Hope this one can last a while in LS without getting destroyed. I am also hesitating whether i should use cloaking or not because i need more DPS (T1 drones). Are there a lot of occasions where cloak saved your life?

Lastly, are there any tips you might want to give before i set off to LS in few days?



Fit a cloak.

If it takes you 10min to scan down a sig in HS, you will be dead before you finish scanning if you try to scan uncloaked in LS. For Radars/mags the drones are enough DPS.

Make safes
Watch Dscan (make sure you have probes configured to show up, they are unchecked by default. yes I learned the hard way)
Stay aligned

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Not to be harsh but you are likely to get popped in LS.
Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-01-09 17:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Souls Rei
I will do that then. Hopefully 2 guns and 5 T1 drones are enough for the plexes.
What do you mean by make safes? And by stay aligned, do you mean keep moving my ship at max speed?

I know that i will get popped, but i just hope not anytime soon, i made sure my fittings aren't too expensive. Since my ship is worthless, i 'should' attract less attention. (i wish)

Do you mind me asking how your LS Vexor experience was? The profit/loss.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-01-09 18:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Souls Rei wrote:
I will do that then. Hopefully 2 guns and 5 T1 drones are enough for the plexes.


They will need to be. If you think it takes while scanning down the sigs in high sec, imagine trying to scan while watching local, and dscan at the same time. At least with a cloack you can drop your probes, cloak up and scan in relative safety.

Souls Rei wrote:
What do you mean by make safes?


http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=advancedbookmarking


Souls Rei wrote:
And by stay aligned, do you mean keep moving my ship at max speed?


Pick a safe spot, planet etc and align to it. If you have to GTFO and warp you will warp instantly as you are already aligned.

Souls Rei wrote:
I know that i will get popped, but i just hope not anytime soon, i made sure my fittings aren't too expensive. Since my ship is worthless, i 'should' attract less attention. (i wish)


You will be a pirate's wet dream sadly, regardless of how you fit your ship. Not just because you are new, but because you are carebearing in LS.


Souls Rei wrote:
Do you mind me asking how your LS Vexor experience was? The profit/loss.


Honestly, as I believe i had said further up, it was annoying. I found LS radar sites to be not noticably better than HS ones. Except that HS radars generally were unguarded and LS ones had spawns, often a chance of a spawn every time i hacked a can. So the yield was almost the same but they took far longer to clear. Add in the risk of low sec, (pirate jumps in while you are clearing a radar you have 2 choices, stay and hope you can finish before they find and catch you, or warp and cloak to be safe, but the radar will despawn) and I gave up.

Now if I am in the mood to just chase radar/mag sites I do it in HS (still use my trusty imicus). For LS I stick to combat sites, but I use an ishtar.

[edit]

I haven't died recently in LS, but I did on my first foray into LS awhile back, chasing a HS site escalation. That was when i learned probes were unchecked by default...
Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-01-09 22:37:16 UTC
I see, makes sense, thank you for the answers.

The main reason why i want to explore LS/NS asap is because of the overpopulation in HS, sometimes i run accross one system after the other with nothing but anomalies. Secondly, it pricks my curiosity and is exciting :3

I will probably go for a Gila next due its short training time.

What is the main difference between for example your Ishtar and my Vexor in LS in terms of survival or not getting popped.
Is it our tank, ability to escape, EWAR, able to fight back, skills...?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-01-09 23:12:50 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
I see, makes sense, thank you for the answers.

The main reason why i want to explore LS/NS asap is because of the overpopulation in HS, sometimes i run accross one system after the other with nothing but anomalies. Secondly, it pricks my curiosity and is exciting :3


Fair enough. It's good to be willing to explore beyond high sec. You will die. But you will learn in the process. I agree there are more challenges and that can be fun.

Souls Rei wrote:
I will probably go for a Gila next due its short training time.


It is on my list as well. I just haven't wanted to cross train yet.

Souls Rei wrote:
What is the main difference between for example your Ishtar and my Vexor in LS in terms of survival or not getting popped.
Is it our tank, ability to escape, EWAR, able to fight back, skills...?


More tank and more gank mostly. Ishtar has more slots for modules. Higher resists. Bigger drone bay and larger drone bandwidth.

In terms of pure escape not much difference, except maybe that I have more drone room to fit a flight of ecm drones.

Mostly as it tanks better and hits harder I can get in and out of sites faster. Less time in the site = safer.

I still have my vexor and a navy vexor in the WH for when I feel like flying them. I have had a soft spot for the vexor hull since my first one. Just fell in love with it.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#55 - 2012-01-10 00:00:56 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
What is the main difference between for example your Ishtar and my Vexor in LS in terms of survival or not getting popped.
Is it our tank, ability to escape, EWAR, able to fight back, skills...?


Ishtar can get ridiculous tank against serpentis/guristas (the tech 2 resists account for that) and coupled with low sig radius when using afterburner you tank a lot. It can also field more (and heavier) drones then the Vexor - together with the Gila it is the only cruiser that can field a flight of Heavies or Sentries.

Of course there are drawbacks. The ship itself requires good skills to fly (Cruiser 5 plus HAC at least 4) and supplimentary skills like the drone skills and so on to make it perform. In lowsec if someone sees an Ishtar on dscan compared to a Vexor you can be sure that it will pique their interest a bit more, too - and they will suspect you to be plexing. I would say you need to be more cautious, but then again you should be cautious already.


Yes lowsec Radars don't usually offer a huge benefit compared to highsec ones, but what i have found (this was almost a year ago tho when i first tried) is that since not everyone runs the radars in lowsec, you can simply find more compared to highsec. So you can run more. I am not sure how it is currently - i think we are seeing an influx of explorers coming to lowsec and maybe it is not like that anymore.


I did my first adventures out of highsec in a Vexor and think it is a good (and not too expensive) ship to learn the ropes.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-01-10 10:44:48 UTC
A Gila is a bit easier to get into than a Tengu or an Ishtar, since you don't need to train a cruiser skill to 5. But they are far too expensive for a 1 week (or 1 month) old character though. Stick with a Vexor.

A T1 fit Vexor will struggle with 4/10 sites. It is possible - but you need to know the triggers etc.

Learn to fly around in low sec in something cheap - like an Imicus. The main danger in low sec is not knowing the game mechanics - safe spots, d-scan, insta-undocks, using the map, etc. You can learn all that just as easily in a frigate. You could also try a destroyer. You don't get the scan bonuses (but you can use very cheap small gravity capacitor rigs) and you can fit a launcher, salvager, tractor beam, and still fit some guns.

A Tengu is great for high sec, if you have the skills an ISK, but in low sec there are two problems. If you fit a cov-ops cloak you lose a huge amount of DPS and range. The the main thing that makes a Tengu shine in PVE is the insanely OP accelerated ejection bay. If you don't fit a co-ops cloak you are risking a very expensive ship.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#57 - 2012-01-10 11:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Souls Rei wrote:
After some thought, here's my Vexor fitting :


Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm
Prototype Gauss Gun 150mm

Analyzer I
10MN Afterburner I
Codebreaker I

Medium Armor Repairer I
Emergency Damage Control I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

Hammerhead I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Warrior I x5

T2s are being trained at the moment.

I will be using this to do radar/mag/hidden combat sites in LS (0.3-0.4), i heard that anomalies are not worth it.
Hope this one can last a while in LS without getting destroyed. I am also hesitating whether i should use cloaking or not because i need more DPS (T1 drones). Are there a lot of occasions where cloak saved your life?

Lastly, are there any tips you might want to give before i set off to LS in few days?


I would find the serp DED3/10 (the drug one) and do that in the vexor a few times in highsec. its a natural for a vexor - it was the first one I ever found - and ran with a vexor. If you find it and do it a few times, eventually you should get a payout that will let you replace lowsec vexors for months. you may need to think about where you explore if you haven't ever found a DED3 in highsec.

I would lose the plate and tank rat specific in highsec too, and get better tank skills. Basically a plated vexor is intended to survive an engagement by burning down another player, or burning back to a gate, and you have no MWD to burn back with, and not enough dps to burn down anyone that locks you at a gate. You probably don't have maxxed evasive maneuvers either, so sooner or later a battlecruiser will succeed with a lock, or you'll come across a camp with a hac or a frigate that will lock you, and after that, its toast.

Frigates align much faster, so they are actually more survivable as far as other players are concerned (ie I think all new players should fly frigates in low for a while to avoid getting the new-player-corp contagious fear of low, but not lose too many ships doing it).
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#58 - 2012-01-10 11:49:34 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
I see, makes sense, thank you for the answers.

The main reason why i want to explore LS/NS asap is because of the overpopulation in HS, sometimes i run accross one system after the other with nothing but anomalies. Secondly, it pricks my curiosity and is exciting :3

I will probably go for a Gila next due its short training time.

What is the main difference between for example your Ishtar and my Vexor in LS in terms of survival or not getting popped.
Is it our tank, ability to escape, EWAR, able to fight back, skills...?


As I said 2 times, you should split the 2 tasks.

1) Learn to fly in low sec and live to tell

2) Explore


It's useless for you to provide free kill mails of a cruiser+ hull while you learn what you could learn in a frigate.

- You need to taste the rush when you land at a gate with 30 reds willing to melt you (very important)

- You need to learn to spam warp to celestial when you realize you are being taken down (usually very quickly) so you won't get podded.

- You need to learn how to discern a "safe" low sec entry from a deadly and perma camped one (map with statistics, knowledge where Factional Warfare takes place...)

- You need to learn not to warp to moons, not to attack (gate cannons will gib you), not to aggress or what to do when you aggressed and all the funky hidden (and not) EvE timers that will force keep you in space even if you log off.


The list goes on and on, it could take weeks to learn just how to be and survive in low sec and that's one of the first challenges you'll get in EvE.

Once you are fluent with low sec, can happily hop in and out of Old Man Star, Amamake, Tama and similar THEN you can begin with a cruiser.
Also, the first times it'd be good for you to focus in something that warps relatively fast, not some mega plated sloth.

Do it gradual, else you risk getting burned hard and give up on some of the best gaming experiences you could have.

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#59 - 2012-01-10 12:30:23 UTC
It can be very rewarding to combine both. Fooling around in a nanoed T1 scanner frig with MWD & cloak is very safe, I never lost one. Imo good way to learn spatial awareness and the power of d-scan, making safespots, quick scanning routines and how to travel. And also train the nerves, hang around in gate camps under the safety of the cloak, get to know your roaming area and the locals. Get amazed by all the juicy signatures!

I actually jumped into OMS as my first foray in LS exploration, in a Vexor. T1 Vex is a solid tool, and very cost-effective. Not a lucrative target for frigate soloists, unlike a T1 frig.

I got out with loot from a radar and a Phi Outpost, and that was indeed my best gaming experience then <3

After that there was no shine in hisec anymore, so I kept going back and naturally provided a few cruiser killmails, but higher risk is in itself a higher reward for me :) ISK is nice, but having a blast is what justifies the subscription.

Oh and if you do it properly, which is without a slightest clue of proper fitting, you get to admire lossmails of undeniably high comedy value for the rest of your EvE career! http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=12416046 would make any mother proud of her brave little adventurer. (Yes I learned2EFT after that ;) )









.
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#60 - 2012-01-10 23:41:48 UTC
5nipe wrote:
[quote=Kilrayn]
I can write a wall of OT advices about my Pilgrim low sec 4/10 and radars ISK printing machine, and it would not be "Beginner exploration ship and fitting".


Mind sharing a bit of that wall of text? I am training for a pilgrim to be used exactly for LS exploring right now, aiming for radars, mags and the easier ded (up to 4/10). Still a few days of for sure, but my arbitrator is currently doing a mighty fine job on its own.

So any tips, tactics or fittings to share for a fellow explorer?