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Beginner exploration ship and fitting

Author
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-01-06 14:38:04 UTC
Souls Rei wrote:
Very helpful. I noticed that clearing sites in HS with 2 Warrior I is pretty much impossible, the damage is just way too low. It actually takes 10d+ training time to be able to use Hobgolin II's. Is the difference between I and II that big? I mean, if i look at the stats, the only big difference i see is 0.32x dmg modifier and 1k velocity. And why would you use Hob II's on an Imicus, if you took 10d to train up the drone skills, wouldn't you had the ~2d to train up a Vexor?


Because a Vexor with 2 warrior 1's will suck worse, and be just a more expensive death? Before you even consider flying a Vexor you need to be able to at least field a full flight of drones (drones 5). As a drone specialist you will also want your Combat drone operation skill trained up (5% damage bonus per level)

I use Hob 2's on an Imicus because I can. An Imicus is still my best high sec radar hunting ship. It's fast, scans fast, and gets radar sites done fast.



Souls Rei wrote:
Is using turrets also an option on the Vexor, for example : Salvager I, Launcher I, 3 x turret.
I know i am hurrying, but that is because i want to be able to do something in Eve as soon as possible. As of now i'm docked in my station and have nothing else to do than waiting for my skills to get finished.



You can, but at its heart the Vexor is a drone boat. And you need to figure out how to enjoy doing what you can, when you can. EVE, as in most MMO's there is always something you can't do yet. I've been playing 9 months and still dont have an Incursion worthy ship I can fly.

There are lots of things you can do in your first few weeks. If you are already docked up in frustration, you are going to be in trouble in this sandbox called EVE.



Souls Rei wrote:
I just explored more than an hour with my fitted Imicus. I looked through 6 systems, scanned down 4 sites, it took me an average of 10minutes to scan each of them down to 100% from 16AU, which is OK for a beginner i guess. Found 1 mag sites (1 empty can and 1 can with 600 isk worth of items), 2 wormholes (too scared of not being able to go back), 1 Chemical Yard (2 Warriors I = a bit useless, so nothing). This is harder and more frustrating than i thought. Ugh




Scanning may or may not be your thing. And it gets better with skills. I enjoy exploration, but I find scanning sites somewhat theraputic. It is very hit or miss. I can spend an entire evening not finding anything useful, or hit sites in my first X systems and made millions in 30min.

And it takes practice. I havent timed it, but I can generally scan down a complete system in way under 10 minutes, depending on the number of sigs.

Feel free to hit me up in game if you want to chat about it more.
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#22 - 2012-01-06 14:43:56 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
I myself got the idea from here: http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/ Plex prices are a bit different now and i am sceptical if you can still do what he did there, but the concepts are the same.


Do not be disappointed about lack of skills limiting your options for exploration in the first couple of weeks. I really enjoyed reading the blog Mnemosyne mentioned, that explains early options. There is no need to sit in the station till the skills are better.

You can do a lot with an Imicus .. just stick Hobs I in it and train to Hobs II as soon as possible and go for highsec radars. I still use my Imicus for quick scanning trips rather than a covops because it is so versatile. An Ishtar is my next goal.

If you want to try some plexes, keep a dps cruiser or BC' close by. Alternatively, ask a corp mate for some dps support for shared rewards. Lots of options. If you wanna speed up scanning and you stay in highsec (you should for starters) invest your money from the first couple of Radars in sisters probe launcher, sister probes and grav rigs. It helps a lot.

Whatever you do, just enjoy the excitment of exploration .. new unknown sigs with imaginable rewards are waiting for "only" you just around the corner ... no, not this corner .. the next one :)
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-01-06 14:49:09 UTC
Sam Redshift wrote:
[quote=Mnemosyne Gloob]An Ishtar is my next goal.



Ishtar is pimp. Just sayin'
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-01-06 15:11:57 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:


I myself got the idea from here: http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/ Plex prices are a bit different now and i am sceptical if you can still do what he did there, but the concepts are the same.

Happy exploring.


Since blog was written and it is about 1.5 years now few things are different now, not only price of Plex.
First of all, skills training process became way much faster because no more need to waist time on learning skills. It means that you will spend a bit more time on making ISKs actually. Another change makes big difference for new low skilled prober char. Now all probes contribute to scanning result, not only 4 with best result as it used to be. To make it even CCP reduced signatures strength. Therefore, I noticed that deviations of scan results is lower with 7 probes than with 4. It means that with more probes in space you will have more precise position of signature and less cycles of reposition probes. It may not be a big deal for skilled char, but for rookie prober it means reduced time for nailing down signature of interest. Yet another great thing CCP implemented is gravity center for probs moving with "Alt" pressed.

As a result of all changes mentioned above, scanning process became faster and getting scanning char is ridiculously easy.

Finally we have 3/10 for Guristas and it not only drops A-Type small shield booster but other "Dread Guristas" stuff like launchers or rail guns quiet often, compare to 4/10 when you can eventually get Gila BP (1% drop rate).

All this are positive thing and they can easily contribute the difference of only 100Mil between Plex prices differences now and then.

The bad news is than exploration is not mini profession any more. It became like a EVE hobby for everybody and his mom. The thing is that difference between "I want to be explorer too" and few real pros is very little in terms of scanning abilities now. So you have to compete against armada of hi sec explorers, typically in Tengu. And it is a huge difference to what it used to be 2 years ago. (and pretty much the same trend in low sec).

But exploration in hi sec still extremely profitable if you can find ways to run it effectively. I run radars in hi sec only when I cross them hunting 3/10 or 4/10. But I still make ISK out of them on regular basis.

On a final note, my little report of my last 5 days Guristas hi sec plex hunting (approx 2 hours of active scanning every day):

4/10 - 8 : 3 Medium Shiled Boosters, 2 Kin, 2 Expl and 2 Mag Amplifiers.
3/10 - 10 : 1 Small Shield Booster, 1 Worm BP.

It is about 1.5 Bil or roughly 120-150 mil per hour across a board.

Does it mean you can get the same with Imicus from radars? Now way, but I still confident you can make enough for PLEX in 2 weeks.

P.S.
By the way, I made about 3 times more ISK in low sec in last 6 days.





5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-01-06 15:17:01 UTC
Oh, just forgot to mention.

If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget all this Vexor, Ishtars, Arbitrators etc...
Train for Gila, and straight to Tengu afterwards.

Tengu still the king of the Hill exploration.
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#26 - 2012-01-06 15:31:47 UTC
5nipe wrote:
Oh, just forgot to mention.
If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc...
Train for Gila ... snip ....


Shocked What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu) Big smile
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-01-06 15:53:29 UTC
Sam Redshift wrote:
5nipe wrote:
Oh, just forgot to mention.
If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc...
Train for Gila ... snip ....


Shocked What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu) Big smile


Why Tengu?
Because it has everything you need for all-in-one exploration vessel. Great tank, decent DPS, long range weapons (missiles), 3 rig slots, Bonuses for scans, great speed with AB and finally it can be fitted for with cov ops cloak for low sec (if you go there eventually for expedition last step). All subsystems have great bonuses and only 1xX training speed.

Why not Ishtar. No bonuses for scan, only 2 rigs, no cov ops cloak, drones as prime DPS. low speed even with MWD compare to any t3. The same as Gila( Gila still have 3 rig slots) but require Cruiser lvl5.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#28 - 2012-01-06 16:04:28 UTC
5nipe wrote:
Sam Redshift wrote:
5nipe wrote:
Oh, just forgot to mention.
If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc...
Train for Gila ... snip ....


Shocked What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu) Big smile


Why Tengu?
Because it has everything you need for all-in-one exploration vessel. Great tank, decent DPS, long range weapons (missiles), 3 rig slots, Bonuses for scans, great speed with AB and finally it can be fitted for with cov ops cloak for low sec (if you go there eventually for expedition last step). All subsystems have great bonuses and only 1xX training speed.

Why not Ishtar. No bonuses for scan, only 2 rigs, no cov ops cloak, drones as prime DPS. low speed even with MWD compare to any t3. The same as Gila( Gila still have 3 rig slots) but require Cruiser lvl5.

Having flown all those and also a proteus, the tengu is just in another class. 700 dps at max range with about that much tank. Most frigs get 1 shot and cruisers usually take 2 volleys, sometimes 3. I do spend a lot of time managing my launchers to avoid 'wasted' shots, but still just a minor annoyance and totally worth it.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears

Mnemosyne Gloob
#29 - 2012-01-06 16:26:10 UTC
Ah we are now at Tengu again. *sigh*

OP is a week old and i still think Vexor is a good intermediate step.

I would also like to mention that you can do exploration and not fly a Tengu (blasphemy lol) ... It's the king, sure, but you people sometimes sound as if anything else is a complete failure heh.
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-01-06 16:41:09 UTC
Vexor -> Ishtar
Arbitrator -> Pilgrim
Gila -> Tengu

with pvp prospective (except the case of 0.0 rifter rookie pvp starter kit) I will go for Arbitrator.
Even Tengu means Falcon.

Ishtar has no single significant advantage over Gila for exploration (even price tags are about the same) not in short run, neither in long run.

And this is all last few post about, not that there is no world without Tengu.
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#31 - 2012-01-06 16:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Redshift
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Ah we are now at Tengu again. *sigh*

OP is a week old and i still think Vexor is a good intermediate step.


You are absolutely right, Mnemosyne. Entirely my fault. Blame me .. I am sorry Sad.

Back to OP topic now:
I am still the opinion to stick to the Imicus for the first couple of weeks until your scanning skills are improved.
Fast and efficient scanning is more fun than sitting in a non-scanning bonused Vexor, scanning down a sig for 10 minutes and finally not being able to get it to 100%. So .. I would say fast and furious scanning in a speedy Imicus beats Vexor in the early stage.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#32 - 2012-01-06 16:52:35 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Ah we are now at Tengu again. *sigh*

OP is a week old and i still think Vexor is a good intermediate step.

I would also like to mention that you can do exploration and not fly a Tengu (blasphemy lol) ... It's the king, sure, but you people sometimes sound as if anything else is a complete failure heh.

I was not talking to the OP, but the other poster who admittedly went OT. Also I totally agree, you don't need a tengu to explore. I was just giving the poster my opinion based on my experience with those ships.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears

5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-01-06 16:56:40 UTC
If you are going to explore in hi sec ( especially Cardari) with the ship without bonuses for scan expect to find signature disparaging while you still scan it to 100% or find only wrecks and empty cans once you warped in.

Low sec is a bit different story tho.
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-01-06 17:05:41 UTC
Kilrayn wrote:

I was not talking to the OP, but the other poster who admittedly went OT.


I beg your pardon, but I haven't went OT. I just pointed out why such ship as Gila would be good choice as "Beginner exploration ship and fitting " compare to Ishtar and why it makes sense for long run (Tengu). And I have answered direct question why Tengu better that Ishtar.

I can write a wall of OT advices about my Pilgrim low sec 4/10 and radars ISK printing machine, and it would not be "Beginner exploration ship and fitting".

my 2c.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#35 - 2012-01-06 17:11:24 UTC
Sam, not you 5nipe, when he stated he did not want to make another thread. Sorry for all the misunderstanding.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#36 - 2012-01-06 17:35:41 UTC
5nipe wrote:

Why Tengu?
Because it has everything you need for all-in-one exploration vessel. Great tank, decent DPS, long range weapons (missiles), 3 rig slots, Bonuses for scans, great speed with AB and finally it can be fitted for with cov ops cloak for low sec (if you go there eventually for expedition last step). All subsystems have great bonuses and only 1xX training speed.


Could you please post the Tengu fit for all of this?

I think I have most of the required skills for it.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-01-06 20:54:11 UTC
A couple of things from points raised in the thread

For high sec Minmatar space the Cheetah (T2 version of the probe) can clear the rats in most mag/radar sites. Instead of fitting a cloak the 3rd high slot is filled by a 150mm meta 4 AC. Fit an AB and shield extender in the mid slots and a power diagnstic in one of the lows.


Drones .. why do people insist on using the wrong type of drones against the wrong faction rats?
Like your armour and damage tank you need to tailor your drones to the rats you encounter .. warriors are great against angels crap against most others, acolytes eat rouge drones and are okay against both sansha and guristas.. hodgoblins just do medioca damage agaist most things.

As to the vexor..I happen to like the belicose..
Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
#38 - 2012-01-06 21:10:02 UTC
Souls Rei - a cruiser can handle any high sec radar/mag sites, and most low sec radar/mag sites. There are some sites that throw lots of ships at you, but they are usually in waves as you begin to tap the site cans. So you can control the waves by clearing them before you hit the next site can.

If you are gonna go with a drone boat then you really do need above average drone skils, which will take longer. Course, if you go with a gun boat, then gunnery skills. There is always something to train!

Just go with what feels comfortable, start with 0.6 and 0.5 systems, work the combat sites too, get the feel of how your ship is working, maybe tweak it if needed, then head into a 0.4 system and below. But you will need more than a cruiser to work the low sec combat sites.

It is true that mag sites are not as good loot-wise, but supposedly they beefed them up in the last upgrade. I have noticed a bit of an improvement. I would still hit the high sec mag sites, which usually have no rats at all. Even some low sec mag sites have no rats. It all adds up.

Happy Exploring!!

Fro

http://ridingevewormhole.blogspot.com/

1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-01-06 21:38:58 UTC
Vexor is what you want, with a good fit and some skillz you can solo all the high-sec sites including the Vigil (Which if you don't already know, is the hardest and arguably the most profitable of the 4 sites)
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Souls Rei
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-01-07 01:23:25 UTC
Thank you for all the replies, honestly, you can go OT as much as you want as long as it's related to exploring, i do not care since i am learning a lot from them.

I hit some WH in HS, i read some articles about them. Sometimes, you might not be able to come back, or get killed by other players. Let's say, i am in my Vexor which can clear every site in HS. Is the risk worth it to explore them? Or are they very dangerous, even in HS? Keep in mind that i might not be able to afford losing my brand-new-super-relatively-expensive-fully-fitted Vexor.