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Nerf and Redistribute Incursions
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Endeavour Starfleet
#41 - 2012-01-06 11:10:56 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Set the isk reward for high sec incursions to 0. Problem solved. Double the LP to compensate if you like, I really don't care. But the raw isk needs to go. It's flooding the eve economy. That said, the blog post is pretty reasonable and well thought out.


Um no...

Learn to fly a proper incursion fit. Claiming it is "flooding the economy" Which is BS because otherwise these people would be doing IVs and sanctums that "flood" as well.

Don't try to bring up the Plex prices.

#1 Its the time of year where many don't have as much funds to buy plex and that decreases supply.

#2 The high cost is also due to many people returning to EVE with the Crucible expansion.

Plex is never going back down to 200M Back then you could use GTCs that were 15 bucks at the local store. Now a single plex is 19. At some point people are going to just stop buying plex to sell even if CCP shut down incursions and other good money makers.

Incursions are what PVE should be. Grouping to the max. Any nerfing on that will just cause the old issues to return.
Endeavour Starfleet
#42 - 2012-01-06 11:17:24 UTC
Oh BTW if you see someone on here saying the "solution" is to reduce frequency of incursions or others including nerfing just vanguards. In my opinion that someone is a "shiny fleet" runner with nothing but dislike for anything that isn't shiny.

He/She thinks that nonshiny fleets are causing LP effective prices to be far too low for their taste. And they are in a perfect fleet for winning contests so they can afford a few losses to others if it means the LP jumps in price on what it brings.

THAT is the kind of crap that ruins the incursion image. There is a shiny fleet then there is a fleet of elitists who want to hog incursions to themselves.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#43 - 2012-01-06 11:23:13 UTC
I did partake in incursions once and was a bit baffled by the isk flowing in by doing such a mind numbingly boring thing (once you have done a particular site maybe 2 or 3 times as a simple dps guy). Anyway what i really do not get is how they can introduce a mechanic that lets players 'farm' these incursions by people not killing the final ship ... IMO this is a bad design decision. If the incursions would end naturally after a bit when the control has been gotten back it would change a lot, i think.

Oh and people threatening to 'quit' if they can't do it anymore are just funny (or not actually).
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-01-06 12:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
also people are not factoring in the other alt accounts behind the scienes that the shinys use to make that 4min per site, scouts to sit at gates to watch for gankers if you have wartargets in fleet and they dont check enough. scouts for checking out sites, ore droppers, ganglink offgrid boosters, people in wait listsetc. all of it brings down the "earnings" per account if we are talking raw numbers.
J Kunjeh
#45 - 2012-01-06 12:25:51 UTC
Jester's at it again...brilliant. He's going to get a lot of hate for this one, but I think his suggestions have merit and should be considered by CCP.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-01-06 13:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
prefer some kind of escallation myself. make people want to move to lowsec and make it random so low sec pvpers cant "camp" certain gates/systems, the logistics of this would be fun and challenging, people would fit for more sensible pvp like fits and be ready to fight back, fleet warping through a scouted gate into losec where the campers on the gate waiting for easy targets being annihilated sounds like fun to me. make it kinda like a spinoff story from normal incursion running "your fleet has been picked for a special mission xxx reward should you choose to take it, xxx penalty should you decline". ramp it up as incursion systems get busy. could even make it system wide and people could volenteer for said missions, can see it in BTL pub now - FC looking for pvp fitted ships to low sec mission.

nearly every really good FC is experienced in running some kind of pvp ops. not all incursion runners are experienced in fleet pvp be it on a large or small scale and they are more likley to try it with some people they are vaguely familiar with even if it isnt in their shiny shiny ship. everyone in the fleet benefits be it support people guarding the gate/system or people inside running the incursion.

losec incursion special missions would be into null and null sec incursions have to move into an enemy alliance area.

stop trying to get it nerfed and suggest ways to improve on what's there already.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#47 - 2012-01-06 14:33:13 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
As for the risks you outlined, they basically boil down to:

poor internet
crappy pilots
other incompetence

These aren't risks. They're just eve players sucking.


Which is a risk unto itself :)

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#48 - 2012-01-06 14:35:17 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
As for the risks you outlined, they basically boil down to:

poor internet
crappy pilots
other incompetence

These aren't risks. They're just eve players sucking.


Which is a risk unto itself :)



Aero for Dean

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#49 - 2012-01-06 18:03:30 UTC
on a side note, nerfing something very popular will almost definitely have a negative effect on the subscriber count and absolutely certainly, a horribly devastating effect on the markets in the short term.

the very rich, have everything, the people who have little to nothing, are 90% of my customer base, if they do not have the same ISK to spend on my goods then I will be hurt, they will be hurt and you will gain? more recruits?

What is your hidden agenda? what is the endgame you seek?


Your originality is 0/10
Your trolling is 1/10
you sir, have to much time on your hands.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#50 - 2012-01-06 18:05:50 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
on a side note, nerfing something very popular will almost definitely have a negative effect on the subscriber count and absolutely certainly, a horribly devastating effect on the markets in the short term.


This is precisely why nothing will change. Not because CCP agrees with you farmers, but because they like having RL money.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#51 - 2012-01-06 18:07:32 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Set the isk reward for high sec incursions to 0. Problem solved. Double the LP to compensate if you like, I really don't care. But the raw isk needs to go. It's flooding the eve economy. That said, the blog post is pretty reasonable and well thought out.


I agree with this.

You idiots actually like inflation or something?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#52 - 2012-01-06 18:09:08 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
GUYS HES IN TEST, A 0.0 ALLIANCE, HE MUST REPRESENT THEIR OFFICIAL WORD. HE IS DEFINITELY THEIR SPOKESPERSON

you are literally saying that the risk is the potential for large alliances to co*ck block you

I don't even know what to say to that....thats not risk...thats just stupid


aye, so you don't want a conversation about the topic, you want to insult people. welcome to eve forums Tauranon, enjoy your stay Roll


They are public resource fountains in 2 or 3 public map published locations in highsec, with all the resources located on public beacons that don't even need to be scanned down. They are by design easily interdicted and harrassed, or even just smothered in competition.

I don't do them myself, but I understand that they can be closed extremely quickly if a fleet was dedicated to taking the motherships asap is deployed, at which time the isk fountain stops. As it stands, the INCOME available is simply based on bears agreeing to NOT destroy the mothership until withdrawal starts, you know - cooperative play between humans and all that.

You are in an organisation of thousands of people, some of whom have historically appeared to derive great enjoyment from highsec harrassment, if you don't like the state of the income of incursions, its within your grasp to do something about it, even if your corp/alliance management isn't involved. Hell I'm sure you could find 20 or 40 nullbears or whatever is required that LIKE shooting red crosses if that was the method of harrassment chosen. They would be well paid doing so, simply because the encounter they need to do is well paid.


Sanctum farming can be shut down by roaming gangs. Therefore, I propose that sanctums get a massive isk boost with the notion that you can shut them down simply by coming and killing the ratter.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#53 - 2012-01-06 18:10:22 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:


eve players sucking/being drunk/disconnecting/mistiming things is a risk
.


please tell me you are not honestly saying that the game should be balanced to account for players being terrible at internet spaceships
Goose99
#54 - 2012-01-06 18:15:46 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
GUYS HES IN TEST, A 0.0 ALLIANCE, HE MUST REPRESENT THEIR OFFICIAL WORD. HE IS DEFINITELY THEIR SPOKESPERSON

you are literally saying that the risk is the potential for large alliances to co*ck block you

I don't even know what to say to that....thats not risk...thats just stupid


aye, so you don't want a conversation about the topic, you want to insult people. welcome to eve forums Tauranon, enjoy your stay Roll


They are public resource fountains in 2 or 3 public map published locations in highsec, with all the resources located on public beacons that don't even need to be scanned down. They are by design easily interdicted and harrassed, or even just smothered in competition.

I don't do them myself, but I understand that they can be closed extremely quickly if a fleet was dedicated to taking the motherships asap is deployed, at which time the isk fountain stops. As it stands, the INCOME available is simply based on bears agreeing to NOT destroy the mothership until withdrawal starts, you know - cooperative play between humans and all that.

You are in an organisation of thousands of people, some of whom have historically appeared to derive great enjoyment from highsec harrassment, if you don't like the state of the income of incursions, its within your grasp to do something about it, even if your corp/alliance management isn't involved. Hell I'm sure you could find 20 or 40 nullbears or whatever is required that LIKE shooting red crosses if that was the method of harrassment chosen. They would be well paid doing so, simply because the encounter they need to do is well paid.


Sanctum farming can be shut down by roaming gangs. Therefore, I propose that sanctums get a massive isk boost with the notion that you can shut them down simply by coming and killing the ratter.


To this effect, Sanctums should be moved to lowsec systems bordering highsec.Cool
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#55 - 2012-01-07 11:59:47 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:


Incursions could have been the buff low sec needed. They should have been low sec only, 100%. People would have gone and people would have made lots of money. With proper fleets and aggression mechanics from rats, properly setup fleets would have actually been pretty safe from the mean pvpers. Hell they would have become pvpers (similar to wormholers...ever tried to gank a properly setup wormhole fleet?). At any rate, riches would have been had, but with some real risk. And there would have been plenty of pvp.

As it is, incursions are just the newest safe isk farming venture in eve, ala raids from WoW.


Well someone here is delusional. Not that it is a surprise to me. Roll
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#56 - 2012-01-07 16:11:23 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:


Incursions could have been the buff low sec needed. They should have been low sec only, 100%. People would have gone and people would have made lots of money. With proper fleets and aggression mechanics from rats, properly setup fleets would have actually been pretty safe from the mean pvpers. Hell they would have become pvpers (similar to wormholers...ever tried to gank a properly setup wormhole fleet?). At any rate, riches would have been had, but with some real risk. And there would have been plenty of pvp.

As it is, incursions are just the newest safe isk farming venture in eve, ala raids from WoW.


Well someone here is delusional. Not that it is a surprise to me. Roll


Please feel free to elaborate on your definition of delusional.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#57 - 2012-01-07 18:11:12 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:


Incursions could have been the buff low sec needed. They should have been low sec only, 100%. People would have gone and people would have made lots of money. With proper fleets and aggression mechanics from rats, properly setup fleets would have actually been pretty safe from the mean pvpers. Hell they would have become pvpers (similar to wormholers...ever tried to gank a properly setup wormhole fleet?). At any rate, riches would have been had, but with some real risk. And there would have been plenty of pvp.

As it is, incursions are just the newest safe isk farming venture in eve, ala raids from WoW.


Well someone here is delusional. Not that it is a surprise to me. Roll


Please feel free to elaborate on your definition of delusional.

I too believe that level 5s in lowsec are exactly what it needs to get people to move out there.

Oh wait...
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2012-01-07 19:05:01 UTC
Did I say that? The only way level 5s work is if you have protection, i,.e Intel. Unfortunately lvl 5s are terrible and just not worth doing.

Groups of people doing incursions in pvp fit ships would be more than safe in low sec and the rewards would be amazing if incursions were solely in low sec. Unfortunately care bears need high sec to feel safe, god forbid they work together to defend themselves and get rich.
Endeavour Starfleet
#59 - 2012-01-07 19:31:35 UTC
No. Incursions shall and should not be messed with at this time. They encourage group play in hisec and players have a means to reduce it.

Just admit you don't like people actually being able to log into incursion alts when you DEMAND they go on your roams or log off. You and other alliance PVP guys want them in lowsec so you can have back the power you have over your members.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#60 - 2012-01-07 19:35:42 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Did I say that? The only way level 5s work is if you have protection, i,.e Intel. Unfortunately lvl 5s are terrible and just not worth doing.

Groups of people doing level 5s in pvp fit ships would be more than safe in low sec and the rewards would be amazing if level 5s were solely in low sec
Since my previous point apparently soared over your head, perhaps this less subtle post will enlighten you.