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Balancing Feedback: Assault Ships

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Author
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#1061 - 2012-02-01 22:27:03 UTC
Just a quick note to say I am really enjoying these new Assault Frigates, and I think a really good job has been done here.

Well done Prom and CCP.

Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#1062 - 2012-02-05 18:59:25 UTC
I'd say low sec pvp isn't the same. Its gotten worse. Anything not AF is no longer viable for solo work (frig sized of course). I used to be able to encounter the whole spectrum of faction ships, but after testing on sisi, I can see why they are not being used... THey just can't cope with the boosted AF's even though the pirate faction ships are meant to be T1 equivalents and the navy faction ships were supposed to be comparable but not there.

Way to make pvp in low sec less exciting CCP.

Oh, AF vs AF takes way too long, should be over way sooner.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1063 - 2012-02-07 03:07:21 UTC
Sylvous wrote:
the pirate faction ships are meant to be T1 equivalents and the navy faction ships were supposed to be comparable but not there.

Way to make pvp in low sec less exciting CCP.

Oh, AF vs AF takes way too long, should be over way sooner.

Pirate are meant to on par or superior than some T2. We don't know if CCP means AFs.
At any rate the Worm & Cruor need the most attention, with the Succubus needing a slight adjustment to pre-nerf stats.
Navy are LESS than T2. CCPs words. They are simply better T1 that offer some benefits of their T2 counterparts.

Destroyers, T1 Cruisers, other AFs, and (in some matchups) Pirate faction are best for countering AFs.
If people are flying AFs, then start flying things that kill them without much stress.

As for fights taking too long, feel free to blame peoples fitting decisions and/or ship choice.
IE: A Harpy vs an Enyo is going to take a bit longer than say, Hawk vs Wolf.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1064 - 2012-02-07 04:43:04 UTC
Yeah lowsec took a big hit on this one i was opposed to it before it went though, and now all i see on dscan is af af af af af, all i can fly is af af af. Gonna give ewar frigs a shot always thought the sentinel looked cool, might give up and move on to bigger ships either way this af boost has been a very dark part of an otherwise wonderfull set of patches.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1065 - 2012-02-07 13:29:59 UTC
Well, the AF change is getting poor reviews from the low sec guys, and as for 0.0 where it was supposed to make a difference, they're no better at all. They're too slow for tackle, which is good because that's what inties are for; they're no good as anti-tackle - again inties still get that role, or faction frigs or cynabals; nobody flies other frigates tbh except for lolfleets out for *****, giggles and an early night, so AFs don't get to shoot those. They can't cope with cruisers and up, mostly as t1 cruisers don't exist much in 0.0, being rather crappy at this point in time, and anything better than t1 cruisers simply eats AFs. Anything bigger than a cruiser and there's plenty of tanky-time for support to arrive. In short, this looked nice on paper to some, and not to others. In practise it falls short for everyone except people who want to 1v1 other AFs, which they could have done before anyway. Poor design decisions based too much on in-class balancing rather than in-game function.

Left very disappointed.
Msgerbs
The Ronin Wind
Khimi Harar
#1066 - 2012-02-08 05:31:39 UTC
Love how the gallente AFs were the least-buffed of all, with Minmatar being once again some of the most buffed. The Enyo cant even come close to fitting all of its slots now unless maybe you use ions. And an AB, but wait? CCP wants us to use MWDs on our AFs. I'm sure plenty of other AFs have this problem as well from what other people have said.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1067 - 2012-02-08 09:46:42 UTC
Msgerbs wrote:
Love how the gallente AFs were the least-buffed of all, with Minmatar being once again some of the most buffed. The Enyo cant even come close to fitting all of its slots now unless maybe you use ions. And an AB, but wait? CCP wants us to use MWDs on our AFs. I'm sure plenty of other AFs have this problem as well from what other people have said.

Enyo isn't really a tanker. Fit resist plates, damage and range.
You'll find that having massive amounts of DPS is just as good as a ton of ehp.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Bent Barrel
#1068 - 2012-02-09 10:45:10 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Msgerbs wrote:
Love how the gallente AFs were the least-buffed of all, with Minmatar being once again some of the most buffed. The Enyo cant even come close to fitting all of its slots now unless maybe you use ions. And an AB, but wait? CCP wants us to use MWDs on our AFs. I'm sure plenty of other AFs have this problem as well from what other people have said.

Enyo isn't really a tanker. Fit resist plates, damage and range.
You'll find that having massive amounts of DPS is just as good as a ton of ehp.


care to write a post chaneg summary how your 0.0 and lowsec AF experience changed ??? did the change translate into your expectations ?
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1069 - 2012-02-09 17:49:56 UTC
I've been flying AFs through 00 with much success, and I've seen plenty of the ships around as well.
The people who don't really leave their home systems are running ABs and larger tanks, whereas the guys who chase you around and/or roam run MWDs. It's pretty damn good.

As for low sec, I haven't seen more or less of them really.
The highest concentration I've seen tends to be pirates who have replaced snaked/linked Dramiels with an assortment of MWD and AB fit AFs.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1070 - 2012-02-09 21:18:28 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
I've been flying AFs through 00 with much success, and I've seen plenty of the ships around as well.
The people who don't really leave their home systems are running ABs and larger tanks, whereas the guys who chase you around and/or roam run MWDs. It's pretty damn good.

As for low sec, I haven't seen more or less of them really.
The highest concentration I've seen tends to be pirates who have replaced snaked/linked Dramiels with an assortment of MWD and AB fit AFs.


The only AF you seem to fly with much success is the wolf. The wolf is also the ship you've lost in quite a bit, and the one you obviously keep going back to. You stated many times that all the AFs were balanced, so I'm wondering why the preference for this minmatar AF?
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1071 - 2012-02-13 03:20:05 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
The only AF you seem to fly with much success is the wolf. The wolf is also the ship you've lost in quite a bit, and the one you obviously keep going back to. You stated many times that all the AFs were balanced, so I'm wondering why the preference for this minmatar AF?


Someone had donated me a stack of Wolves to fly Smile
I fit them to fight against, and capitalize against, new AF users.

The fit is extremely fragile and easy to kill P

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Bent Barrel
#1072 - 2012-02-13 09:10:50 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
I've been flying AFs through 00 with much success, and I've seen plenty of the ships around as well.
The people who don't really leave their home systems are running ABs and larger tanks, whereas the guys who chase you around and/or roam run MWDs. It's pretty damn good.

As for low sec, I haven't seen more or less of them really.
The highest concentration I've seen tends to be pirates who have replaced snaked/linked Dramiels with an assortment of MWD and AB fit AFs.


ah a non-answer again ... anyway ... I had a look through battleclinic and eve-kill.net and notice that you started flying AFs after the change. there were very few on your list prior the change.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1073 - 2012-02-14 00:40:40 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
ah a non-answer again ... anyway ... I had a look through battleclinic and eve-kill.net and notice that you started flying AFs after the change. there were very few on your list prior the change.

Sorry, I thought that the increased usage and success with the new AFs would have spoken for itself P
My usage of AFs peaked when Quantum Rise came around, when I was using AB fits in low-sec.
Since then, I had only flown them on occasion because they were utterly useless, and easily trumped by clever piloting or simple ship choice. That, and it was largely impossible to fly them where the majority of my fights are (00).

Up until around 2010, my choice ships were always frigates. I grew tired of flying them as often because my name was recognizable enough that people wouldn't bother engaging. I started flying larger ships to help myself out of the rut.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Bent Barrel
#1074 - 2012-02-14 06:41:42 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
ah a non-answer again ... anyway ... I had a look through battleclinic and eve-kill.net and notice that you started flying AFs after the change. there were very few on your list prior the change.

Sorry, I thought that the increased usage and success with the new AFs would have spoken for itself P
My usage of AFs peaked when Quantum Rise came around, when I was using AB fits in low-sec.
Since then, I had only flown them on occasion because they were utterly useless, and easily trumped by clever piloting or simple ship choice. That, and it was largely impossible to fly them where the majority of my fights are (00).

Up until around 2010, my choice ships were always frigates. I grew tired of flying them as often because my name was recognizable enough that people wouldn't bother engaging. I started flying larger ships to help myself out of the rut.


omg ... you realy don't get change testing ...

look at your stated goals ... then look if the change fullfiled the goals and to what extend. then look if it made somethink worse ...

OTOH your goals were:

1. Make AFs more survivable in zerosec (escape bubble camps and such) - Did you accomplish this ? How is your camp survival rate now compared to before ? Since you did not fly AFs for more than a year, you cannot actualy compare ... but try anyway

2. Make AFs better damage and tank wise - now this is workable in EFT, but does the addition of the MWD bonus HELP ?

3. AFs will not be used as interceptors - did you observe a change of trend ?

4. Did AF performance vs cruisers/BCs change ?

I admit it is quite early to test everything, but you should see trends by now (given the state of your killboard).
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1075 - 2012-02-14 16:41:27 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
1. Make AFs more survivable in zerosec (escape bubble camps and such) - Did you accomplish this ? How is your camp survival rate now compared to before ? Since you did not fly AFs for more than a year, you cannot actualy compare ... but try anyway

-Yes, AFs are extremely viable in 00 now. I see them everywhere.
-They are way more survivable, you can move around without exploding.
-I've flown AFs longer than most, and considering how their last big *change* was in Quantum Rise with web/scram changes, yes I can compare Roll



2. Make AFs better damage and tank wise - now this is workable in EFT, but does the addition of the MWD bonus HELP ?
You can now not only get to a target, but can now do so without exploding immediately. This doesn't show in EFT, but is a major improvement.

3. AFs will not be used as interceptors - did you observe a change of trend ?
Haven't seen anyone trying to use them as Interceptors, which are still very popular.

4. Did AF performance vs cruisers/BCs change?
Significantly. They have much much better odds

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Bent Barrel
#1076 - 2012-02-15 08:46:01 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
1. Make AFs more survivable in zerosec (escape bubble camps and such) - Did you accomplish this ? How is your camp survival rate now compared to before ? Since you did not fly AFs for more than a year, you cannot actualy compare ... but try anyway

-Yes, AFs are extremely viable in 00 now. I see them everywhere.
-They are way more survivable, you can move around without exploding.
-I've flown AFs longer than most, and considering how their last big *change* was in Quantum Rise with web/scram changes, yes I can compare Roll



2. Make AFs better damage and tank wise - now this is workable in EFT, but does the addition of the MWD bonus HELP ?
You can now not only get to a target, but can now do so without exploding immediately. This doesn't show in EFT, but is a major improvement.

3. AFs will not be used as interceptors - did you observe a change of trend ?
Haven't seen anyone trying to use them as Interceptors, which are still very popular.

4. Did AF performance vs cruisers/BCs change?
Significantly. They have much much better odds


finaly a valid answer :-)

Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#1077 - 2012-02-16 01:05:33 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
1. Make AFs more survivable in zerosec (escape bubble camps and such) - Did you accomplish this ? How is your camp survival rate now compared to before ? Since you did not fly AFs for more than a year, you cannot actualy compare ... but try anyway

-Yes, AFs are extremely viable in 00 now. I see them everywhere.
-They are way more survivable, you can move around without exploding.
-I've flown AFs longer than most, and considering how their last big *change* was in Quantum Rise with web/scram changes, yes I can compare Roll



2. Make AFs better damage and tank wise - now this is workable in EFT, but does the addition of the MWD bonus HELP ?
You can now not only get to a target, but can now do so without exploding immediately. This doesn't show in EFT, but is a major improvement.

3. AFs will not be used as interceptors - did you observe a change of trend ?
Haven't seen anyone trying to use them as Interceptors, which are still very popular.

4. Did AF performance vs cruisers/BCs change?
Significantly. They have much much better odds


With all due respect, what region are you flying in to see all these assaults? I want to visit and see for myself.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1078 - 2012-02-19 02:15:05 UTC
Cloud Ring, Fountain, Pure Blind, Fade, Venal, Tribute, Vale, Curse

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Vaya DeLopasz
OWL Initiative
Dark Taboo
#1079 - 2012-02-24 10:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaya DeLopasz
as far as i can say, mwd bonus does not even resemble the role of an AF at all.

it should get AB bonuses, since the AF is most likely to be used as a short range interceptor, which if slowed down relies on its resistances. it naturally should be vulnerable to mwd attacks and not use it as a tactic.

also, resistance to energy neut would be nice. if there should be any fourth. bonus resistance against t2 makes also sense, in some way, but not with the t1 - t2 gap which is in existence.

therefore i agree to boost slots in t1 frigates. simply because t2 having more slots and other bonuses is too big a step in balance in eve anyway. you should at least give it a try.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#1080 - 2012-02-27 04:14:28 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Cloud Ring, Fountain, Pure Blind, Fade, Venal, Tribute, Vale, Curse


And yet not Catch, the most active 0.0 in EVE. Must be magic.