Test Server Feedback

@Mirei
The point of the change is the enhance their maneuverability & survivability.
The role bonus make sure that the frigates no longer get one-vollied by a stray Hurricane, and allow some ability to catch cruisers without being obliterated in the process. They aren't supposed to be i-win ships against larger ships, and they aren't supposed to replace Interceptors.

The Ishkur doing less damage than the Enyo isn't a problem. The Ishkur has far better damage application & projection, and can offer some drone utility if needed. The Enyo is no longer shadowed by the Ishkur and the Ishkur is no longer the go-to Gallente AF for high dps. The Ishkur is still really good, and will work better than the Enyo in some situations, and vice versa. The 4th bonus isn't a *huge* deal against small ships that can hit them, but when put against larger ships who need to use drones or smartbombs, it's a pretty big deal. The Ishkurs drones have as much hitpoints as medium drones, which is a pretty good upgrade.

As for the AB bonus again..
ABing AFs do *mwding bc/cruiser* speeds on TQ right now. Throw a cheapo faction afterburner on the ship and you're zipping along at 1000m/s or more. Only the Minmatar BCs are faster. The AB bonus that was given to them was a reasonable speed, but that was too much. Making them instead zip around at 1300m/s or so is still too slow for lawless space, and the 2000m/s that they did was waay too much.

And no, they were not still *killable*. Not in any reasonable capacity.
All turret ships needed to be carrying multiple neuts and/or multiple webs, and generally needed the assistance of ecm drones.

The whole Caldari line of Cruiser+ ships got overpowered by the AFs.
The whole Gallente line of Cruiser+ ships got overpowered by the AFs.
The whole Amarr line of Cruiser+ ships got overpowered by the AFs.
And most of the Minmatar line of Cruiser+ ships got overpowered by the AFs.

On TQ, right now, if you can get one of the *good* AFs on top of a Cruiser, the odds are pretty much in the favour of the frigate. Medium turrets & missiles simply have trouble against ABing hulls, and so increasing that speed makes that even more difficult. It was way too difficult to kill the ships, and it doesn't take a scientist to realize how overpowered any AB speed increase is.

Right now on Sisi, good AF pilots can kill Cruisers & Destroyers and conversely, good Cruiser & Destroyer pilots can kill AFs. It's a nearly perfectly balanced system.

And as a sidenote, *irregardless* isn't an actual word

Why does the role bonus served have to be a Speed Bonus?

In my opinion, The Role, as in the Intended Purpose, of an assault frigate is heavy tackler.
some may roam solo in an assault frigate and that is absolutely fine, just like some people choose to solo roam in interceptors.

But what an interceptor is designed for is get to a target quickly and point it. Assault Frigates are the next step, and are designed to enter scram range and become heavy tackle, putting the scram and web on, shutting down their MWD and holding.

So, to add to this role, why not give Assault frigates a resistance to ECM? Give assault frigates an increased sensor strength, and make it harder for tackled targets to deploy ECM drones, break lock and MWD away from the then helpless AB Assault Frig.
This would be beneficial to both Fleet Heavy Tacklers, and Solo Roamers.

Thoughts?

If more ships had Immunity from EWAR, outs like ECM would not be as "broken". If ECM is such a broken mechanic, surely ships with Immunity are an excellent way to balance, without nerfing the mod itself.
Neuts are the counter to frigates. A small nos will not defend you from dual medium neuts or even dual small neuts.

The role bonus is redundant for scram range setups though. sure you get into scram range fast, but then immediately lose prop and have to rely on your base speed for tank and dictation? against most dual web / neut ships or a BS with a MWD and ECM drones, you will never keep transversal low enough to avoid death. Ships will either cap you out and burn away from you, or Jam you and then regain use of their own MWD's.

That's a bad way to look at fixing ECM. Let's make a ship class immune so we can call ECM fixed for everything else.
It's a flawed mechanic, and building a whole class around being immune to that flawed mechanic is just poor design.
You fix ECM on a mass scale so it's not flawed, not on a ship by ship basis.

Correct, dual medium/small neuts will ruin an AFs day.
In fact, dual medium neuts will ruin just about anythings day, Command Ship and below.
Now count how many ships generally fit those neuts, and how many others have to sacrifice some mods to fit said neuts.
The same applies for dual webs, there really aren't many ships that can and will field those.

You're trying to argue that people who are fitting to counter frigates, are countering frigates...
The fact of the matter is that unless you know you're going to be engaging AFs, you're probably not going to be fitting to perfectly counter AFs.

As for the scram comments, it just sounds like someone is afraid of commitment
You don't engage a Vagabond with your Taranis and then decide half way in that it's not for you, you stick it out for better or worse! There's nothing wrong with going balls deep , simply because that's how brawls work.
Unlike other frigates, the AFs now have the ability to get under those punches and deliver some cheap shots until the target is dead or they are. Someone from the outside can always take pot shots at you from miles away, but that's EVE, and that's how it goes no matter what you're flying.

New ishkur not only has less dmg then new enyo but due to lower armor HP also less tank. The 80 dps you can send out that, even with the hp bonus, still die in few seconds if shot by frigates. The ECM drones you can field are of course golden but Ishkur is still a close range boat. Drones are bad at medium ranges, if you cant scoop your drones immediately you will most likely lose them if someone decides to destroy them or you have to warp out. Don’t get me wrong, the hp bonus is fine in itself because it helps you to manage your drones better but what I don’t like is the 5/lvl bandwidth bonus. Remove that entirely, give ishkur 25 base bandwidth and replace it with a hybrid tracking bonus. Ishkur would still deal less dmg and have less tank but the overall package would be better.



I pretty much agree. Cruiser speeds are too slow for a frigate anyway. I was always fitting MWD to my AS back then when I was actively playing that is why I don’t get the trend. You won’t catch anything and If you meet a cruiser pilot with brain he will burn away from you while you approach with an AB => zero transversal => dead AS. That should actually be the first thing every first time AS pilot actually learns when taking his AS into a fight against a cruiser.

Jaguar still needs more CPU
in fact several Minmatar ships need more CPU, like:
- Cyclone
- Tornado
And probably a couple more I forgot.

other than that, all I can say is

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET ♥♥♥

Shooting hobgobs in a hawk is pointless - they're beating on your strongest resist, so just leave them be and focus on the ishkur. Also, don't use kinetic missiles against T2 gallente hulls! Your 50% damage bonus won't begin to compensate for the fact that you're shooting at a resist of 86%+....

I've got to say, I too am a little sceptical that an ishkur could beat a dualweb hawk shooting EM rockets.

haters gonna hate
u mad bro?

The point was to see if I could kill the drones..... it's testing! I wasn't using Kinetic either.

That purely because neither you neither Prom can fit and fly that hawk properly:))
Try this:

highs:
4x rocket launcher II

mids:
2x web
1x scram
1x AB II
1x medium shield extender II

lows:
1x ballistic control II
1x shield power rellay

rigs:
2x Anti EM screen reinforcer II

With this setup I have killed 10 Iskhurs in a row blaster and rail fitted, not much of a difference.
Side note - you dont have to even bother with killing hobgoblins - this setup is able to tank them:))