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OT: I always thought a better comparison for the firetail was the dram. The dram pretty much = firetail + range bonuses + drone bay + snakes. Jaguar didnt get tracking bonuses, was way slower, had t2 resists, had very different fitting, etc.


Prom, any word on what changes, if any, from the OP in this thread are being released?

Sounds like bad manual piloting to me, you shoud drop a can at a safe and start practising Prom.

and its those sorts of pilots who would demonstrate a ship being OP.

It wouldn't get an extra slot since all the Navy frigs have 7 slots
As for the drone skills, the Vigil and Probe both use drones, so it would be something most players (I'd hope) have.

Why are you here anyway, if your understanding of frigates is so limited then you should be no where near a balancing discussion.

Four (4) .. count them FOUR .. midslots on a high dps turret ship (yes, 120+dps is high for a T1 frigate) is insane. Firetail is probably one of the stronger navy frigs, largely due to the immense versatility of its slot configuration .. there are several very powerful fits for it whereas the other navy frigs have two, perhaps three if one pushes the criteria.

2+k/s on AB, 140+dps, scram, 5k+ EHP, TD and neut with only a single T1 rig used to fit .. yeah, sounds horribly underpowered to me .. sheesh.

But it is OK, at least now I am confident that the proposed over-buff will be toned down significantly or go back to the drawing-board .. even blind, deaf and dumb CCP employees would think twice about leaving balance in the hands of the inexperienced .. or rather I hope so.

Carry on, lobbying complete.

to be honest, i wouldn't be asking for faction frigs to be buffed if AF's weren't just buffed. considering they are exactly the same price. your jag just got an extra low slot for more dps. give that to the firetail as well then.


I really really hope so, because t1 frigates need a buff as well otherwise. as stupid as it sounds to buff every frigate, at least it keeps the balance between their own size straight, and just makes them stronger against anything larger.

ps this af buff just made the destroyer buff largely redundant. only frigs that could take on destroyers before buff were AF's, so they buffed destroyers to fix this, now buffed AF's in respone... all this talk of buffing is crazy but wouldnt be necessary if not for this megabonused af ****

@Hiranda
You must be completely obvious to the world to think that the Firetail can even compare to the Hookbill, Comet, or Slicer.
They aren't even in the same playing field. They are all just as tanky, have higher damage, and have better range projection. Even the TD Firetail (which is good) can't compete with that. I'm not saying the Firetail is awful, just that it's underpowered compared to its competitors. Even your corpmate agrees.

@Darkstar
The bonus number is relevant to the ships design. The Firetail for example gets 20% damage bonus (per level) to projectiles.
There is no other Minmatar ship (correct me if I'm wrong) with that bonus. The number is just a reflection of the design.

And don't go hating on that utility high on the Slicer!
I know a few excellent pilots who use the ship as a super-Punisher and that slot is very much used.

As for the rest of your post, I really do think you Black Rebel guys just ignore posts.
If the AF buff were cancelled tomorrow, low tier T1 Frigates would still need to be looked at.
They need looking at. Period.

And as for Destroyers, they are still a handful for AFs.
Put one Destroyer in a fleet and it's going to do some serious damage to any frigate.
Put two Destroyers in a fleet and they're going to really hurt.
Even with the added slots the new AFs do NOT have a significant increase in tank size over what's currently possible.

Destroyers are entry level ships. If you can fly a Rifter, you can fly a Thrasher. All you need is the book.
They should not be able to simply lock and pop AFs without some stress.

thats a bad fit not just for the auxiliry thrusters that hurts your armor, but also for the nano pump that boosts the rep time of a repper that you don't even have fitted

even if u did have a repper fitted an auxiliry PUMP would do more

Just to be clear...

You want to buff AF. Then T1 Frigates and T1 Cruisers. Then the 3 Pirate Frigates (Where do you get 3? Worm, Succubus, and what else?).

Now, you must have forgotten, but since Navy Frigates are comparable to T1 Frigates (your own/CCP words), you'll have to buff them too. And I'm pretty sure Destroyers too, since they're balanced now, and hence won't be after the changes.
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As far as I can tell, all this so that AF have a better chance of being able to kill T1 cruisers (which they already can given good pilot skill (not skillpoints) and non-trap fits) during the brief time window between the AF buff and T1 Cruiser changes.

This is the explanation for the slot/bonus changes, correct?

And what was the mwd bonus reason? "people will fly more of them in 0.0"?

Summary:

Retribution - needs 7.5% tracking per level. Lasers already have poor tracking and we don't need to set a new precedent now (first ship in the whole game with only 5% to tracking), that'll only get fixed later.

Vengeance - Does not need a DPS reduction. It brings up the back of the pack with ~151 DPS with faction rockets and is limited to within 10km. CPU pretty much prevents putting standard launchers on here and an overwhelming tank.

Harpy - Perfect.

Hawk - 7.5% to shield boost amount should stay. Again, it should not be the first ship with 5% instead of 7.5% to this amount. If it has to be different amount for balance's sake, it should be a different bonus altogether considering the Harpy's new tanking ability.

Enyo - Perfect, though it's about time they dropped the whole Enyo-is-a-Roden-ship thing. Red Incursus = cool, but increase to damage is so far opposite of Roden's philosophy. Tbh, I'm annoyed the Phobos doesn't use SOME missiles, but that's for another topic. Put your hands in the air for a Duvolle Enyo! \o/

Ishkur - Perfect.

Wolf - Still not sold on the 5th low vs a 3rd mid. I understand the whole idea is that it doesn't need a web so much with good damage projection, but why should the Wolf be WORSE than the Rifter in any way? The new Retribution has the same amount of mids as a Punisher, more highs and lows. Enyo has same amount of mids now as an Incursus, with more highs and lows. The Harpy has the same amount of mids as a Merlin, with more highs and lows. Wolf should have the same amount of mids as a Rifter, with more highs and lows. It's not rocket science.

Jaguar - It's losing a lot of ground with this patch. I think changing ONE of the damage bonii to a rate-of-fire would go a long way to helping it remain useful. RoF over damage would provide a net increase of 8% turret damage. Hardly gamebreaking.