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How Do I Deal With Ninja Salvagers?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#101 - 2012-01-12 11:39:38 UTC
Jorn Isu wrote:
OP: You seem to have some kind of ego complex. You keep referring to yourself as the poor exploited noob. You do realize that anyone ninja salvaging (and only ninja salvaging, not looting) a slow L4 MR is going to be making a pittance? A good mission might provide 10m or something in salvage, but most are going to be closer to 1-2m. For all of your whines of vets exploiting noobs, It seems more likely that someone much newer and with much less SP than you is behind this.

Signed,
-A month-old Ninja who realized within the first few weeks that "just salvaging" was chump stuff.


The Noctis was a massive blow to the salvager profession, because now it's just so easy to simply hoover up everything. With the huge spike in supply caused by this, prices have tanked.

My mission alt has a T2 salvager fitted on his Tengu, but the only wrecks I salvage methodically are the faction rat ones, since I have to loot them anyway.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-01-12 17:21:51 UTC
Hmmm... I never seen anyone complaining about something like that in other games. Take BF3 for example. If you eliminate an enemy player, you don't "own" his gear. Anyone can take it. That's the game mechanic and everyone is ok with that. Right, you can't profit from picking up enemy gear in BF3 (except maybe firing a gun you have no access to yet), but if you're running lvl 4 missions in EVE, the salvage is not profitable for you anyway. So, I don't get it.
You can complain about it when you're a new player, doing lvl 1 and 2 missions. In that case salvage can be worth more than mission rewards and loot combined. But, there are almost no ninja salvagers at those kind of missions. You can stumble on one, maybe two of them in course of 40+ missions. Is it really so important then?

As for the reasoning behind this, wrecks are junk. Some people (with salvage skills and gear) can turn it into something profitable, but it's still junk. It's not your junk (but you can salvage it), the ship you destroyed wasn't yours either, the same as it's not your mission and not your private place in space to kill rats. The only thing that's (also) yours is the victims cargo. That's it.

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory
Michael Torrez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2012-03-17 06:23:10 UTC
what happens if you shoot at a savlger ? you have point and kill him ????
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#104 - 2012-03-17 09:34:00 UTC
I, too, love necro.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#105 - 2012-03-20 23:30:12 UTC
SnowxCrash wrote:

I've explained the reasoning. It's really as simple as cause and effect. The wrecks exist because of my actions. Can anyone have any claim to something that exists solely due to myself? .


This isn't a single player game. It's EVE. People have given you plenty of options for dealing with this in this thread. If you want a world where you can just play by yourself, you're in the wrong place. I for one LOVE it and I'm fairly new here.. I've had my cans flipped, my kills ninja-salvaged, and even mission loot drops stolen from me... I've just noted the offenders because there wasn't much else I could do at the time.. but there will be! Oh there will be!

BTW, you sure whine a lot.
Elian Troller
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-03-21 02:14:11 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
[quote=Kahega Amielden][quote]

"Real" ninja salvagers who look for trouble do loot your wrecks, and become shootable. You can and should shoot those guys.

And then get instapoded by those "Real" guys.
Not worth it.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#107 - 2012-03-21 09:25:25 UTC
Elian Troller wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
[quote=Kahega Amielden][quote]

"Real" ninja salvagers who look for trouble do loot your wrecks, and become shootable. You can and should shoot those guys.

And then get instapoded by those "Real" guys.
Not worth it.


Then what does it matter if salvaging causes flagging or not?
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-03-21 09:57:06 UTC
Quote:
How Do I Deal With Ninja Salvagers?

Have you ever considered ignoring them?
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#109 - 2012-03-24 11:20:20 UTC
They can salvage your wrecks, but cannot tractor them.

So, either stick some tractor beams and salvagers on your active ship (if you're a drone boat) and salvage as you go, or get an alt or buddy in a noctis and have them do the same thing. Ninja salvager can't do much if you keep pulling their stuff away from them.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#110 - 2012-03-25 07:14:05 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Oh, and as at least a former ninja, I should mention:

SnowxCrash wrote:
Would CCP even patch it so that people who salvage other people wrecks would be 'stealing'?


If CCP does this, I will love them forever.



They won't. CCP's position on salvaging is very clear: the loot is yours, salvage is not. And I agree.

Ways to deal with salvagers: warp out, NPC will likely chase away the ninja salvager. Or fly a Marauder and salvage while you run the mission.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2012-03-25 10:36:54 UTC
Funny this thread is still active, with an OP trolling all along.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Swann Zeigenfuse
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2012-03-25 10:49:40 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Ninja salvager can't do much if you keep pulling their stuff away from them.


I would challenge this. I find orbiting a Noctis in my Thrasher and getting my salvagers on the loot first to be effective.
Lilith Astarte
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2012-04-12 06:26:45 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Salvaging your wrecks isn't stealing! If they loot your wrecks it is and you're allowed to shoot at them... so there is consequences.


yesterday a ninja vacuumed part of my wrecks. when he entered the system he had no color, but after a while (perhaps after cleaning the first wreck with something in it) his icon turned red. does that means that he took the wrong step and took the loot so i could shoot without Concord getting in?
Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-04-12 10:35:55 UTC
Lilith Astarte wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Salvaging your wrecks isn't stealing! If they loot your wrecks it is and you're allowed to shoot at them... so there is consequences.


yesterday a ninja vacuumed part of my wrecks. when he entered the system he had no color, but after a while (perhaps after cleaning the first wreck with something in it) his icon turned red. does that means that he took the wrong step and took the loot so i could shoot without Concord getting in?


Yes, he must have found something he couldn't resist.. probably a meta 4 drop, which can be worth a couple of mil.

Yes, you can also shoot him if he does that.
Once you have shot at him, he can shoot you back.
He will then proceed to re-ship into something that is quite capable of killing your ship, and return.
This is why you ignore ninja's.
Until you have the skills ( and the ships) to show them that not all carebears are fluffy bunnies.

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.
Lilith Astarte
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-04-12 11:10:21 UTC
Grikath wrote:

Yes, you can also shoot him if he does that.
Once you have shot at him, he can shoot you back. He will then proceed to re-ship into something that is quite capable of killing your ship, and return. This is why you ignore ninja's. Until you have the skills ( and the ships) to show them that not all carebears are fluffy bunnies.



so when he turns red, we can engage without concord getting in? nice. i could take the risk of him returning back.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-04-12 11:32:35 UTC
SnowxCrash wrote:
other players to steal from them without any consequences.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

It's a mmo, find some friends.

Jesus
Remistor Callaway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-04-12 14:31:49 UTC
just put a friend in a Noctis and look at the NinjaSalvager warp out when he'll see him...

And actually, it works. And this encourages multi-player missioning.

You forget that the game is basically a PvP, even when you do PvE. It's MADE that way, an other player will pop you, steal from you, ninja salvage one of your missions... And it's fun that way.

When I see a NS warping in, for me it's just a race to salvage the mission before him(I'm actually the guy in the Noctis, behind the BS), and I almost always win, because I use a Noctis, and because this NS in his frigate cant do it faster than me. Problem solved.

Now please, please, stop complaining about it, because it will not change.

You have a few choice:
-stop playing that game
-change in-game profession
-do something about it(2nd player in a Noctis, destroy the wrecks)
-let the NS do what he do.

In the 4 scenarios, you need to stop complaining about it, because it will not change anything.

PS: I think the Eve concept that you misunderstand, is that Eve is a harsh game. CCP will not come to you with a teddy bear because you are not happy about a Ninja Salvager or that you were suicide ganked near Jita. The game is made that way. If you are not happy with it, refer to my 4 points above.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#118 - 2012-04-12 14:58:43 UTC
Lilith Astarte wrote:
Grikath wrote:

Yes, you can also shoot him if he does that.
Once you have shot at him, he can shoot you back. He will then proceed to re-ship into something that is quite capable of killing your ship, and return. This is why you ignore ninja's. Until you have the skills ( and the ships) to show them that not all carebears are fluffy bunnies.



so when he turns red, we can engage without concord getting in? nice. i could take the risk of him returning back.

Ninja salvagers don't do it for the money. It's really ****-poor money, and if you have the skills to scan down peoples' missions and salvage them, then you have the skills to run mag/radar exploration sites and make far more money without the risk of getting shot.

Ninjas do it for the ganks. When you're a ninja, you go into someone's mission with a really vulnerable salvage ship, probably only mildly tanked. Something like a Cormorant, or a Stabber: easy prey for a zealous mission-runner. Then you proceed to **** off the mission runner by stealing from his wrecks, and hope he shoots you. If/when he does, he may kill you. Provide some feedback to give the mission runner a good feeling, like "dammit, I have to do level 1 missions for three hours to replace that :(" or "whew, barely got away. nice dps!"

Now that you're aggressed, you warp to a station, dock up and swap to a Hurricane, Typhoon, or, if you're rich, something like a Machariel. You equip ammo of the type the missionrunner is not tanking (e.g. kin/exp ammo if it's a Sansha mission), neuts, tracking disruption (if applicable) and other things to shut the mission runner down. It is also effective to use an Orca for this swap.

Then, warp back into the mission, and fire away! The loot dropped by a mission ship will be worth far more than the salvage ship you risked to get here, and if you're lucky, you may even get a faction drop, at which point you will be making more money by doing this than by missioning.

That is when ninja-salvaging is profitable. And fun.

tl;dr don't shoot ninjas.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Kairos Antilles
Doomheim
#119 - 2012-04-12 21:20:31 UTC
SnowxCrash wrote:
So from the standpoint of genre and reason I have full rights to the salvage and any interloper trying to take that away I should have full rights in preventing.


You DO have the choice to defend ownership. Open fire.

You don't want CONCORD involvement, you say?

Guess you need to mission and salvage where CONCORD is irrelevant.




Choices, choices, choices......
Kalli Brixzat
#120 - 2012-04-12 21:40:41 UTC
Kairos Antilles wrote:
SnowxCrash wrote:
So from the standpoint of genre and reason I have full rights to the salvage and any interloper trying to take that away I should have full rights in preventing.


1. You DO have the choice to defend ownership. Open fire.



Chances are, you DO NOT was to do that. A couple hundred grand in salvage is not worth your ship.

Your bad ass mission bird is not equipped to deal with PvP.