EVE New Citizens Q&A

There's a few Russian corps, in the Citadel, and outlying systems, that go into other peoples missions and salvage their wrecks, they don't loot, that way you can't kill them without suicide ganking. Really Lame. So, one's only real recourse is to leave to a system far away, enough people leave where they're at these Russians will no doubt leave in search of them and like a plague they'll continue to, harass, other players by stealing from them. I think it'd be nice if we'd be able to kill people who steal from us, people who do so by salvaging our wrecks. Call me a carebear or whatever, but it really is ridiculous that they're allowed to outright steal from others. Being a new player and all I don't have many options with dealing with them. Apart from buying Plexes to hire mercs to wardec any and all Russians, I don't know what I could do. Would CCP even patch it so that people who salvage other people wrecks would be 'stealing'? I mean, it was hard enough learning this game, building up enough isk to get my first BC, but now there's these Dbags stealing from me in the only way I'm trained to make isk...Is there something I don't know about, a way to deal with these parasites efficiently?

As long as they only salvage, there's not much you can do to them. You can move to another agent however. If you choose to stay, then they can continue to take your salvage, as salvage is not 'owned' by anyone currently, just the cargo.

You do also have the option of counter-griefing. When they enter your grid, just start blowing up your wrecks and wait for them to leave, or try to get a fresh spawn of rats to target them.

I guess this is one of the reasons Eve doesn't have that many people playing. Someone can get past the learning curve, has the patience for planning training, and then there's gameplay that allows other players to steal from them without any consequences. So, I'm a new player, and my only options are either to be passive aggressive and run away whenever they're around, to get a 2nd acc and train an alt just to deal with them, or buy plex to hire mercs to wardec, or somehow, find some corp in Null who will recruit a low sp noob and leave behind all the people I've met so far. All of those solutions are lame by any standard...How can they be seen as acceptable solutions? Maybe I'm just too accustomed to shooters, and dealing directly with people whose actions produce enmity towards them, but I've never been one to just bend over and take it. I'm rather baffled why CCP allows a situation like this, someone care to explain why this needs to be IG?

Real life is really friggin hard; If you leave your backpack open in the middle of the street, with your iPad showing, some **** is going to come by and take it.

Eve theft occurs only when you let it.

Canflippers take your mined ore that you put in a jetcan -- to make you fire back in your effectively defenseless mining ship, so they can fire back. They don't do it for your ore. Get a secure canister and they won't be able to take anything.

Ninja salvagers take your mission loot/salvage -- big deal, simply blitzing Lv4 missions will pay you out far more than going around and collecting the loot will. Ninjas don't do it for the profit, they do it to get you to shoot them, so they can shoot back. Or to troll you and make you sad. Trust me, I've done it.

Ignoring them gives them a few million ISK of loot, while you continue doing your crazy profitable mission in peace. If you really want that loot/salvage, get one of those people you've met so far to come along in a Noctis and collect everything.

If you want to "deal directly" with looters/salvagers, get in a corp. People stealing from you allows your whole corp to fire on that person, so you can set up fun traps for them. You don't have to "bend over and take it", you just should think before punching back, and calculate your punch to hurt more than theirs.

It's cause of how what is defined as "yours".

The loot inside the wreck IS yours.
The twisted bits of metal and junk on the outside are not, and it remains of public access until it has been put into some other cargo hold.

From what I can gather CCP cannot "fix" this (it's intended) because the wreck itself has no container, it has ownership rights to whatever is inside it, but not to the wreck itself.

Salvage does not have an owner until it has been removed form the wreck.

Oh, and as at least a former ninja, I should mention:



If CCP does this, I will love them forever.

I'd start ninja salvaging too if CCP did this and I would buy 30 PLEX from them to show them how much they've pleased me.

I'm on your side here, OP

Hey bro, you may not have noticed, but EVE is not in any way similar to other games in the "genre".

Regardless, this same whine has been made a thousand times in the past. Ninjasalvaging started to become a thing in early 2008 and ninjasalvaging whines have popped up constantly since then. Not only has CCP never given an inch, they've actually come out in support of ninjasalvaging as a profession.

Link to some (but not) of CCP's statements on the subject:

You haven't explained why it should leave, other than your gross misunderstanding of what EVE is.

The "Standards of the genre" mean jack **** in EVE because EVE is not like other games of the genre. Nothing in EVE's design philosophy is really similar to, say, WoW. In WoW I can't declare war on your guild and gank you repeatedly to take your loot, nor can I scam you via contacts (and expect the GMs not to say anything about it).

Now, from a lore perspective, it doesn't make sense either. The loot and salvage 'belong' to the owners of the ship that you just blew up. Given that they are now dead and that CONCORD really doesn't give a **** about the well-being of pirates, they are now ownerless. Any ownership you have over anything, then, is completely arbitrary. CONCORD has determined that modules and ammo in the wreck belong to you but the floating wreck itself does not.

From a gameplay perspective, EVE's design emphasizes group play and having to interact with other players (which doesn't always mean cooperating with them; it also means fighting or competing with them). Intelligent missionrunners can employ a number of tricks to subvert the ninjasalvager, and it creates a very interesting dynamic. In addition, ninjasalvaging is a fun, skillful profession that newbies can get into. I personally know many people who only got into the game because of it.

So, from the lore perspective, ninjasalvaging makes sense. From a gameplay perspective, ninjasalvaging is awesome.

I've explained the reasoning. It's really as simple as cause and effect. The wrecks exist because of my actions. Can anyone have any claim to something that exists solely due to myself? I rolled the mission, went to it, destroyed the ships, made the wrecks through that action. Why should anyone else profit from my efforts, other than myself, without having to 'steal' from me and suffer the consequences of doing so. It's also worth pointing out that it's hard to justify EVE as encouraging teamplay in this regard considering how easy it is to solo l3/4s. Even more from the standpoint of maximizing profit. The fastest way to do this would be to get a partner, as I often do, both of you do dps, one goes to get a Noctis to salvage a bit b4 the mission is about to be over. That's teamplay, working together to increase earnings and have fun. But when some parasite has been salvaging the pockets behind you that teamplay goes out the window, and in effect you have to have one person solo a mish and the other wait to salvage, which is rather ridiculous, tedious, and defeats the purpose of finding someone to enjoy doing missions with. Having company is often about going to fights you can't do alone, working together to win those, and profiting from it. Which becomes troublesome when more than half the wealth get's jacked by someone who lacks common courtesy and is too lazy to run their own missions.

Also, when I was speaking of genre i wasn't speaking of games, I was speaking of pop/soft/hard SF stories, which are found primarily in books, books of which Eve and just about every other game/movie in existence has based themselves off of.