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[Thankyou] December - Players & Summit Reports

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Disdaine
#41 - 2012-01-05 02:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Disdaine
CCP Navigator wrote:
percieved poor interaction with the players


The Mittani wrote:
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-01-05 02:10:27 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents

He does have a way with words...and that's on top of being a strikingly handsome man.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-05 03:58:10 UTC
At first I gave the OP a 'like', but then later withdrew it.

Only a fool would perceive this expansion as being the direct result of only one entity and not due to a massive amount of effort from multiple fronts. Those front being the players, CSM and CCP. Yes there will be certain individuals who will keep yapping like a Chatty Cathy doll screaming that they are the sole reason for any changes perceived as being good in this latest expansion. Only it wouldn't be someone else pulling the string, but they would be doing it. *yank-yank-YANK!!!* Sadly there is nothing that can be done about these attention starved individuals.

What a person has to realize is that just because a couple individuals who happen to belong to a specific group try and claim full responsibility for the expansion or any part of it; they in fact do not represent the entire group. It is unfair to brand the entire CSM or any group for that matter as trying to take full credit for the expansion when everyone knows damn well it was a full blown effort on everyone's part from all aspects of this game. Not just the one camp they are a part of.

I know for a fact this expansion is a direct result from all parties involved and in no way should full credit be given to just one group, much less one individual. Many of these fixes/changes have been on the table for a very long time. Sure some people/groups have put forth more effort than others, but we really should not be trying to find some savior for this game when the savior is all of us.

It's always darkest before the dawn and it seems to me; Crucible is the dawn. How about we all enjoy and look forward to the rest of the sun coming out instead of arguing over who deserves more credit. The fact remains everyone needed the help of everyone else to achieve anything they have accomplished so far. Let's not ruin that. Smile
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-01-05 04:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Marlona Sky wrote:
Bridged...


& there are a whole lot of people that disagree with you regarding the CSM portion of your post. CCP + Player's = good. I will take a guess and say your a bit newer to EVE Online, maybe? If you are, then perhaps that is why you have the opinion that you do regarding the so called "Counsel of stellar management".



Some of us have seen EVE slowly go down hill since their institution. That is not to openly state that it is do to the CSM directly, but on the other hand, there is an uncanny correlation that cannot simply be ignored. I have a number suggestions as to how this pattern may have came into being, but that is not what this thread is about atm. I'm sure that it will degrade further though, at which time I will be happy to deviate and fence with the trolls some more.


Eternum Praetorian wrote:

Crucible appeared really fast after the realized failure of incarna and the lol Himlar fiasco. It's content is not an effort of an elected council, it is instead an effort of a panicking and downsizing RL corporation to make people very happy, very fast. I mean, it is pretty obvious isn't it?


The CSM did not invent "Hybrids need to be balanced", "Supers need nerf", "Dreds lost their role", "POS's need to be looked at", "fix oneiros" ex.) This has nothing to do with them and I can't understand how people can entertain the idea when people say otherwise (like whitetree) Ugh


You can only get away with that kind of fabricated stupidity on the internet.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#45 - 2012-01-05 04:30:51 UTC
but is it really cheaper to fly a bunch of drunks to iceland for a free binge weekend and all the herring they can eat than it is to use focus groups and statistical analysis to pretend that you're listening?















Lol
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-01-05 04:33:08 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
That is not to openly state that it is do to the CSM directly, but on the other hand, there is an uncanny correlation that cannot simply be ignored.

It can be ignored and is by the vast majority of Eve players who don't buy into your Goon conspiracy theories.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
mkint
#47 - 2012-01-05 04:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
Corina Jarr wrote:
Meh, this CSM wasn't nearly as entertaining as the last one. Mittens is ok for laughs, but Ank was the greatest.


On a serious note, I haven't followed the CSM as much as last year, so I don't know how much work they put in, but I'm sure they did something, either for the players or for CCP.

I'm pretty sure Navigator is confusing "telling d!ck jokes on skype" with actually accomplishing something. And that's pretty much the current CSM's biggest accomplishment. At least above the board.

The current CSM has also seen some of the biggest buffs to RMT alliances (including people who've admitted to selling RMT in the past being on the CSM now), and the safest RMT culture the game has ever experienced.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#48 - 2012-01-05 05:14:48 UTC
I think having an elected CSM is a bit of a PR nightmare in a political game such as EVE.

CSM's should apply for there jobs and be chosen by CCP based on there experience and what CCP are interested in learning.

Don't mean to single you out naviagtor but you did 'put your head above the parapet' as it where, where you for example voted by the forum community into your job because of your witty reparty and reputation for fairness, I think not you applied and where chosen because your skills best fitted what CCP wanted.

Anyway being that there are easier and fairer ways to poll player opinion, it is no more than a PR stunt by CCP to convince the playerbase that they are listening to them, kinda backfired IMO because it just leaves peope thinking 'if I'm not some EVE bigwig CCP don't want to hear my opinions'.

Also lols at the over defensiveness of the goons, the OP was about the CSM being a fail idea not about any sort of rant against the political power it might bestow.

just my 0.02 isk Cool

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-01-05 05:47:20 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Anyway being that there are easier and fairer ways to poll player opinion,

Hey remember last year when CCP polled the playerbase about their most pressing issues with the game?

Docking games was the number one item.

Do you think docking games is the biggest problem in Eve right now?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#50 - 2012-01-05 06:19:33 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Anyway being that there are easier and fairer ways to poll player opinion,

Hey remember last year when CCP polled the playerbase about their most pressing issues with the game?

Docking games was the number one item.

Do you think docking games is the biggest problem in Eve right now?



Can't say I do remeber that just returning after a long break, don't see any docking games though Attention

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
lior narkis
Massive Dynamic weapons
#51 - 2012-01-05 06:28:12 UTC
Its really easy to create a voting system for an online game like Eve Online.

Once Voting starts everyone with a full account gets a voting screen upon login WITHOUT any way to get around it. (like when you want to log in a character that doesnt have the new skin modell)
You then see different choices of general playstyle, e.g. high sec, producer, wormhole, 0.0 and so on. (someone smarter than me will surely figure out better names for the typos of players in this game)
After you chose one there will be different character/player names running for CSM that in general fit your previous choice. You can click on them and read a short introduction and their goals as CSM chairman. (limited number of words)
After reading you can give him/her your Vote or check on the next volunteer. As soon as you chose one login procedure continues as normal. Of course there should always be the chance not to vote at all.

Right now its really easy for huge alliances (and huge alliances are mostly in 0.0) to build up and focus on one candidate of their own.

That might not be a bad thing and actually it is like in real life politics, BUT allow me one question:
Is the CSM part of the sandbox as a real life politics simulator or isnt it just a tool for CCP to better understand the majority of the playerbase? Right now because of the way it works its impossible to monitor the majority of the playerbase.

Therefore CCP, do you want to change that and get a better CSM or do you rather keep your 0.0 alliance CSM with long term players you know and like? I imagine working with a more mixed up CSM and more mixed up opinions on this game will make it harder, but also more fruitfull.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-01-05 06:46:34 UTC
lior narkis wrote:
Therefore CCP, do you want to change that and get a better CSM or do you rather keep your 0.0 alliance CSM with long term players you know and like? I imagine working with a more mixed up CSM and more mixed up opinions on this game will make it harder, but also more fruitfull.

There is no doubt that CCP would prefer to have a bunch of people on the CSM with differing goals and agendas so they would spend all their time fighting with each other and ignore CCP. CSM1-CSM5 were like that.

CSM6 has been a publicity nightmare for them which is why this CSM has been so effective.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#53 - 2012-01-05 06:55:30 UTC
Effective in what way, have you any evidence to support this, how would crucible be any difffrent without the CSM?

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-01-05 07:10:56 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Effective in what way, have you any evidence to support this, how would crucible be any difffrent without the CSM?

There is the very real probability that Eve wouldn't have survived to produce the Crucible expansion without the intervention of the current CSM. CCP was happy to basically ignore the entire playerbase until people started canceling their accounts in great numbers and even then they didn't really grasp what the problems were until the emergency CSM meeting they had over the summer.

But for some more concrete examples you can thank the CSM for jump bridges not being foolishly removed from the game, supercaps finally getting a balance pass, an actual plan to fix some of the glaring problems with the Dominion sov system, CCP backing away from selling gold ships and ammo through RMT and a bunch of smaller "quality of life" issues that they have been championing since their term started.

I get that some people don't like Goons and hate to see us succeed but keep in mind that there are only two Goons on the CSM and when I say that CSM6 has been the most effective CSM in history I mean all of them--not just Mittens and Vile Rat.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Disdaine
#55 - 2012-01-05 07:17:57 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
There is the very real probability that Eve wouldn't have survived to produce the Crucible expansion without the intervention of the current CSM


Gold.

Thankyou for saving eve CSM6. We are forever in your debt. Roll
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-01-05 07:19:05 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
There is the very real probability that Eve wouldn't have survived to produce the Crucible expansion without the intervention of the current CSM


Gold.

Thankyou for saving eve CSM6. We are forever in your debt. Roll


Glad I could finally convince you.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#57 - 2012-01-05 07:54:19 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
As someone who has interacted with the CSM on many occasions I am not sure that the sentiments in the OP are just. Every CSM I have worked with have been productive, helpful and have worked to ensure that player concerns are addressed and fixed. Calling them a fruitless band of individuals is more than unfair.

Still, elections will be coming up in the next few weeks for the CSM so perhaps you can shift that focus, run a strong campaign and be a really good CSM member. Naturally, it is always easy to throw stones at a glass house. Try coming into the house instead and actually affect change.


Come on, you can't be serious. You SHOULD know that most of your playerbase is scatered into little flocks and "lone wolf" types. Which means that, albeit they are a massive majority, they can't overcome the mere fact of an uber-alliance leader telling his buddies to vote for him.

Actually as soon as a lone-wolf type reached the point of having its own clients to vote for him he no longer would be lone-wolf and would represent a guy wih a lot of clients to please. Preferably clients from nullsec. Preferably close to the uber-alliances. Preferably the kind of CSM we got now, who are asisting your company into flipping the bird to hiseccers, soloers, casuals and very specially those who hoped you (eventually) were true about Incarna and instead got four closets and have been waiting for two bloody months and 2,000 messages that you deign yourselves to say anything on WiS.

As far as we know, WiS was not on the table this december. That's nice. But now grow some balls and tell us you no longer want to think on WiS and so we can carry on and do whatever we see suit to do with whatever gameplay you will give to nullsecers, griefers, gankers and the rest of your First Class customers.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#58 - 2012-01-05 08:17:37 UTC
Gripen wrote:
It's the first time I'm urged to use that Like button.

CSM people claiming the credits of so-called refocusing of CCP make me sick.


It is basicly what politicians do, the fact that their unintended pre-emptive strike in the media through the post of The Mittani had such widespread results is because of the earlier already widely reported protests and player backlash. The reaction of the CSM although late was the only course left to CSM 6 unless they chose to cooperate fully with CCP, become patsies and not only lose all credibility but also help ruin a game that they supposedly love.

I have no issue with the CSM doing what they where supposed do, they did jump on the bandwagon eventually, although it took a little time and prodding from the masses to get them to take that last step. It is not an easy thing to do even with the glaring problems we all saw (this includes the players AND the CSM) with CCP's approach. While I'll agree that some CSM's are annoying and sometimes not suited for their job I do think the majority them and certainly the "known names" like The Mittani, Seleene, Trebor and Two Step to name a few have been effective.

But in the end the CSM would have been proven wrong and powerless if they hadn't had the metrics on their side, the unsubs, the rage and the media. And those things came from the players who did what Hilmar himself suggested, they acted. All the rest followed.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Maelle LuzArdiden
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-01-05 08:31:05 UTC
OP seems to think that forum whining, bittervetting and shooting some statues actually means anything to anyone else besides themselves. You are the minority and take yourselves too seriously, deal with it.

CSM, on the other hand has proven to be able to operate on a professional level and pursue long-term changes.

I voted for Seleene and I'm extremely satisfied with her(his) performance, but now could really vote for any other member, UAxDeath, White Tree, even Trebor- but most impressive has been the Mittani. I originally took him for a complete joke and jackass, but has proven to be both an entertaining character and an exceptional chairman.

CSM6 rocks, new CCP rocks and EvE is better than ever, why don't you all just enjoy it?


DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-01-05 08:44:36 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:




* Eternum bows to the player base, thx CCP and then flips the middle finger at the CSM.


Fixed it for you.

+1 'Like' to all your posted replies in this thread.


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