These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Tengu: Viable for missions, Incursions, exploration, nullsec ratting, wormholes?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-04 08:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
I've returned to EVE after a 14-month absence, and I'm looking for a broad "yes," "no" or "sort of" on each of the purposes outlined in the title. Most of all, I'm interested in the Tengu's viability (and desirability) for Incursions; I don't know a lot about Incursions yet, since I just got back. I know the Tengu can easily run L4 missions, of course.

I'm not asking for specific loadouts (and I realize different loadouts will be required for different activities), I'm just thinking the Tengu looks like a fantastic all-round PvE investment and seeking some confirmation. I have a character on one of my accounts with almost all core skills trained (and 2.5m refunded learning SP), and I'm thinking of Tenguing him up.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-04 09:06:56 UTC
Missions - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best mission running ships.
Incursion - yes, Buffer Tanked Tengu is fine for Incursions, though Pirate Battleships like Nightmare bring more DPS and are probably better
Null sec ratting - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best null sec ratters. You can even fit a cloak.
Wormholes - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best wormhole mission runners. It can solo probably up to C3.
Exploration - yes

In short it is one of the best possible ship for all these roles, apart from Incursions where Nightmares/Vindicators/Logistics are the best possible.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-04 09:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Thanks for the feedback! That's more-or-less what I'd thought/hoped. I'm glad to hear it does well with nullsec ratting. I've been away too long to remember all the variables. I'd say ratting's my primary concern, because my main is an "I get all frigate-related skills to V and fly every frigate in the entire game" type, and even gang mining fails in nullsec these days (financially speaking) unless I'm forgetting something.

I suspected the Tengu would be less than ideal for Incursions DPS-wise, but if I can get into the occasional fleet with it until I develop a more specialized skill set, that's all I care about.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia
Varnoka
Cajun Consolidated
#4 - 2012-01-04 11:13:22 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Missions - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best mission running ships.
Incursion - yes, Buffer Tanked Tengu is fine for Incursions, though Pirate Battleships like Nightmare bring more DPS and are probably better
Null sec ratting - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best null sec ratters. You can even fit a cloak.
Wormholes - yes, Active Tanked Tengu is one of the best wormhole mission runners. It can solo probably up to C3.
Exploration - yes

In short it is one of the best possible ship for all these roles, apart from Incursions where Nightmares/Vindicators/Logistics are the best possible.


Totally agree here. I've got a loki for my alt and a tengu and proteus for this girl here. The tengu is by far the best out of them for those activities listed. I haven't found anything it can't do. Though the loki comes close on a few depending on what type npc you are fighting.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#5 - 2012-01-04 11:23:01 UTC
Varnoka wrote:
Totally agree here. I've got a loki for my alt and a tengu and proteus for this girl here. The tengu is by far the best out of them for those activities listed. I haven't found anything it can't do. Though the loki comes close on a few depending on what type npc you are fighting.


Tengu is bad (or rather, "less than optimal") against NPCs that do EM damage and/or are resistant to kinetic damage - namely (regular, non-incursion) Sansha, Blood Raiders and rogue drones.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-01-04 16:11:18 UTC
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
I've returned to EVE after a 14-month absence, and I'm looking for a broad "yes," "no" or "sort of" on each of the purposes outlined in the title. Most of all, I'm interested in the Tengu's viability (and desirability) for Incursions; I don't know a lot about Incursions yet, since I just got back. I know the Tengu can easily run L4 missions, of course.

I'm not asking for specific loadouts (and I realize different loadouts will be required for different activities), I'm just thinking the Tengu looks like a fantastic all-round PvE investment and seeking some confirmation. I have a character on one of my accounts with almost all core skills trained (and 2.5m refunded learning SP), and I'm thinking of Tenguing him up.

Missions: Yes, through L4. Tengu performs best against Guri/Serp/Mercs/EoM, OK against Angels, and requires an ammo switch (to Thunderbolt missiles) against Bloods/Sanshas, although it still will handle OK tank wise with a proper hardener setup. Watch out for unexpected EM damage sources though!
Incursions: Yes. Following standard Incursion fitting advice (high DPS + high omni resist buffer tank) gives you a solid albeit unspectacular Incursion ship. Be especially aware of shield Assault fleets running Nation Consolidation Node sites (I know Darranibal likes to do that thing), as you are one of the best DPS sources on the cruiser side of that particular site.
K-space exploration: Yes, with a couple caveats. Serpentis are generally the best rats to work against for an "All-In-One" exploration fit due to the need to use the Emergent Locus Analyzer for probe bonuses; it may be best to swap subs/fittings to bring the Dissolution Sequencer to bear when facing Guristas (NPC jamming = frustrating) and then switch back to the Emergent Locus Analyzer for the next probing run. Can be made to work against other rat types as well, with similar caveats to mission running; also, can be made very difficult to scan down at the cost of some tank, but people can still find you using D-scan + core probes to scan down your site.
Null sec ratting: Yes, in some scenarios. Generally best against Guristas, with Serpentis in second place. Other ships are generally favored for serious Angel/Sansha/Blood ratting.
W-space: Yes, with some small exceptions. Can use an active tank to solo C1-C3 anoms/mags/radars and most if not all grav/ladar sites. RR Tengu gangs are viable for C4-C6 anom/mag/radar running. Avoid Wolf-Rayet systems though, as they favor armor over shield; Black Holes may be troublesome as well due to missile penalties (I have heard mixed reports on this front, if anyone wishes to provide further feedback on their experiences with Tengus in Black Hole systems, I would welcome your observations).
Leetha Layne
#7 - 2012-01-04 17:31:11 UTC
....and it removes ground-in stains!
Varnoka
Cajun Consolidated
#8 - 2012-01-05 22:59:18 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Tengu is bad (or rather, "less than optimal") against NPCs that do EM damage and/or are resistant to kinetic damage - namely (regular, non-incursion) Sansha, Blood Raiders and rogue drones.


2 EM hardeners take care of the EM resist excently without the need for a thermal hardener at all in those situations. And drones take only 1-2 extra volleys in missions. The tank doesn't suffer a huge loss against EM/Them rats due to the Tengu's speed and sig radius which is the largest part of its tank.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-05 23:32:17 UTC
Varnoka wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Tengu is bad (or rather, "less than optimal") against NPCs that do EM damage and/or are resistant to kinetic damage - namely (regular, non-incursion) Sansha, Blood Raiders and rogue drones.


2 EM hardeners take care of the EM resist excently without the need for a thermal hardener at all in those situations. And drones take only 1-2 extra volleys in missions. The tank doesn't suffer a huge loss against EM/Them rats due to the Tengu's speed and sig radius which is the largest part of its tank.

Agreed that you can tank Bloods/Sanshas no problem in a Tengu. The reason why the Tengu is suboptimal against them is because of the Tengu's 5%/level Kinetic-only missile damage bonus coupled with the rats' high Kinetic resist, which forces you to reload to Thunderbolts in order to avoid shooting into a strong resist (lose/lose situation: you either shoot into a stiff Kinetic resist or lose your 25% Kinetic damage bonus)
Goose99
#10 - 2012-01-05 23:57:13 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Varnoka wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Tengu is bad (or rather, "less than optimal") against NPCs that do EM damage and/or are resistant to kinetic damage - namely (regular, non-incursion) Sansha, Blood Raiders and rogue drones.


2 EM hardeners take care of the EM resist excently without the need for a thermal hardener at all in those situations. And drones take only 1-2 extra volleys in missions. The tank doesn't suffer a huge loss against EM/Them rats due to the Tengu's speed and sig radius which is the largest part of its tank.

Agreed that you can tank Bloods/Sanshas no problem in a Tengu. The reason why the Tengu is suboptimal against them is because of the Tengu's 5%/level Kinetic-only missile damage bonus coupled with the rats' high Kinetic resist, which forces you to reload to Thunderbolts in order to avoid shooting into a strong resist (lose/lose situation: you either shoot into a stiff Kinetic resist or lose your 25% Kinetic damage bonus)


^This

Your 700 kinetic dps isn't high to begin with, especially compared against 1300 dps NM/Mach. With non-kinetic ammo, it's down to 500.
Varnoka
Cajun Consolidated
#11 - 2012-01-06 04:59:02 UTC
True guys, I was thinking strictly of the tank. Sorry about that
Spineker
#12 - 2012-01-06 05:22:30 UTC
PVP yes.

Swiss Army Knife of Caldari
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#13 - 2012-01-06 05:22:37 UTC
Tengu: Viable for anything..

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Spineker
#14 - 2012-01-06 05:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Goose99 wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Varnoka wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Tengu is bad (or rather, "less than optimal") against NPCs that do EM damage and/or are resistant to kinetic damage - namely (regular, non-incursion) Sansha, Blood Raiders and rogue drones.


2 EM hardeners take care of the EM resist excently without the need for a thermal hardener at all in those situations. And drones take only 1-2 extra volleys in missions. The tank doesn't suffer a huge loss against EM/Them rats due to the Tengu's speed and sig radius which is the largest part of its tank.

Agreed that you can tank Bloods/Sanshas no problem in a Tengu. The reason why the Tengu is suboptimal against them is because of the Tengu's 5%/level Kinetic-only missile damage bonus coupled with the rats' high Kinetic resist, which forces you to reload to Thunderbolts in order to avoid shooting into a strong resist (lose/lose situation: you either shoot into a stiff Kinetic resist or lose your 25% Kinetic damage bonus)


^This

Your 700 kinetic dps isn't high to begin with, especially compared against 1300 dps NM/Mach. With non-kinetic ammo, it's down to 500.



Which means nothing I have close to 800 DPS by the way with kinetic. 1300 with Mach hahahahahahahaahahahahaha That is funny the Mach has no real Gurista Ammo. The mach DPS is added with drones. Drones take far too much work and time.

Mach is subpar when it comes to Caldari Missions, yeah it does ok but it doesn't do anything faster than the Tengu. I have both by the way fly both.

Anyone who has one ship and thinks it does everything including the Mach is kidding themselves.

1300 dps hahahahaha that is funny. EFT warriors that is all perfectly setup with with rats in perfect range and all that with drones who instantly DPS out of the gate with no work! In reality the mach is slower on several missions.
Spineker
#15 - 2012-01-06 05:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
What people don't get is that Missile DPS is just that DPS. Yes rats have resistance and such but their is no falloff or tracking or other nonsense. I can kill elite frigates with Rage Heavies before a mach can transverse and start hitting them and most of the shots will be misses. Missiles DO NOT MISS. Even if damage is regulated to speed etc they don't miss. 100 damage on a frig is better than a miss.

Mach is fantastic but over all if you are running Caldari mission Tengu is the best period.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#16 - 2012-01-06 05:40:14 UTC
Spineker wrote:
What people don't get is that Missile DPS is just that DPS. Yes rats have resistance and such but their is no falloff or tracking or other nonsense. I can kill elite frigates with Rage Heavies before a mach can transverse and start hitting them and most of the shots will be misses. Missiles DO NOT MISS. Even if damage is regulated to speed etc they don't miss. 100 damage on a frig is better than a miss.

Mach is fantastic but over all if you are running Caldari mission Tengu is the best period.


Missile damage is reduced by sig and speed, much to the same degree that transveral effects tracking.

Many frigates and some cruisers can outrun missiles, even in PvE.

There is no "I WIN" button in eve.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Spineker
#17 - 2012-01-06 05:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Yes and? Guns have the same problem.

There is no Mission Frig or Cruiser in PVE Missions that can out run missiles. Period does not happen not even the most elite of all interceptors to do so would break the game. Not even against Torps and I know I have Level V Mara

That is false name one that does?

There is no I win button but there is a I can balance ship called the Tengu.


Loki is damned awesome also.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-06 06:01:17 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
Tengu: Viable for anything..


I originally wanted to fly a Legion because it's coated in gold and shoots lasers, but the majority opinion in threads I've read here, at Failheap and at BattleClinic (I read quite a few) seems to be that while the Legion can be made to work for PvE, you'll generally have an easier and safer time with the Tengu.

Thanks for the advice and discussion, all. Much appreciated.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia
Heun zero
MAYHEM BOYZ
#19 - 2012-01-06 11:33:00 UTC
to summarize this thread:

if your question is caldari your answer is tengu, regardless

unless ofcourse the answer is 42
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-01-06 11:47:46 UTC
Tengus better for Guristas because of 35 sensor strength.
12Next page