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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Last straw I'm afraid. A potentially long-term player just cant see when the fun starts.

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Author
Toxic Gengod
Doomheim
#61 - 2012-01-21 00:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Toxic Gengod
Blackavar Sul wrote:
Dear CCP.
You have made what I'm sure is a fine game and it has been successful, with what I gather is something like 400,000 people playing at one time or another. I really believe that this number could have been so many times more than that if you had made the game enjoyable for new players .
.


one of the biggest reasons why people quit,besides the abundant trolls/douchebags, is because of that feeling of never catching up(pvp wise). Which is true to a certain point and it doesnt help that hi-sec alts/losers camp noob systems padding their lame KB with max frig stats wanting frig 1v1.

The other reason is the skill training times. Nothing worse than needing to wait for 16-30min a skill to level in order to do a mission. The game is almost 9 years old, new characters should have a maximum of 1m sp spread into fitting/cap, industry, exploration,pi,navigation,gunnery,some into missiles, tanking, and drone skills. This gets new player out of the stations waiting for skills to train and quickly onto doing what ever they deem fun. Running the tutorial missions is a must though and after wards there could be a pop up asking which profession they enjoyed the most. Then there could be a message like

" Hey there capsuleer, so you want to be a explorer huh? Well here is everything,well almost, you need to know"...points out which other skills need to be bought for exploration and other skills which help such as drones.

Ive said it before and ill say it again eve is at its best when you can do multiple things. Being about to do it right off the bat(and suck but still) would be very nice.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-01-21 00:57:34 UTC
Toxic Gengod wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:
Dear CCP.
You have made what I'm sure is a fine game and it has been successful, with what I gather is something like 400,000 people playing at one time or another. I really believe that this number could have been so many times more than that if you had made the game enjoyable for new players .
.


one of the biggest reasons why people quit,besides the abundant trolls/douchebags, is because of that feeling of never catching up(pvp wise). Which is true to a certain point and it doesnt help that hi-sec alts/losers camp noob systems padding their lame KB with max frig stats wanting frig 1v1.

The other reason is the skill training times. Nothing worse than needing to wait for 16-30min a skill to level in order to do a mission. The game is almost 9 years old, new characters should have a maximum of 1m sp spread into fitting/cap, industry, exploration,pi,navigation,gunnery,some into missiles, tanking, and drone skills. This gets new player out of the stations waiting for skills to train and quickly onto doing what ever they deem fun. Running the tutorial missions is a must though and after wards there could be a pop up asking which profession they enjoyed the most. Afterwards there could be a message like

" Hey there capsuleer, so you want to be a explorer huh? Well here is everything,well almost, you need to know"...points out which other skills need to be bought for exploration and other skills which help such as drones.



bad idea, it will slowly turn EVE into a rollercoaster MMO.

People should take some time to train stuff and in the mean while they can figure out what they like and don't like. Also why should you give people more boosts in SP, after they got rid of the learning skills and the massive buff in attributes skilling as a newb takes so much less them then before.

Also on having to wait 16-30 min before you can run a mission as you lacked a certain skill, never seen that happen *unless you do a mining agent while you are a pew pew skilled character or the other way around*. Even then you could have moved towards another agent to check one of his missions out while you train the skill.

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Toxic Gengod
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-01-21 01:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Toxic Gengod
J'Poll wrote:
Toxic Gengod wrote:
Blackavar Sul wrote:
Dear CCP.
You have made what I'm sure is a fine game and it has been successful, with what I gather is something like 400,000 people playing at one time or another. I really believe that this number could have been so many times more than that if you had made the game enjoyable for new players .
.


one of the biggest reasons why people quit,besides the abundant trolls/douchebags, is because of that feeling of never catching up(pvp wise). Which is true to a certain point and it doesnt help that hi-sec alts/losers camp noob systems padding their lame KB with max frig stats wanting frig 1v1.

The other reason is the skill training times. Nothing worse than needing to wait for 16-30min a skill to level in order to do a mission. The game is almost 9 years old, new characters should have a maximum of 1m sp spread into fitting/cap, industry, exploration,pi,navigation,gunnery,some into missiles, tanking, and drone skills. This gets new player out of the stations waiting for skills to train and quickly onto doing what ever they deem fun. Running the tutorial missions is a must though and after wards there could be a pop up asking which profession they enjoyed the most. Afterwards there could be a message like

" Hey there capsuleer, so you want to be a explorer huh? Well here is everything,well almost, you need to know"...points out which other skills need to be bought for exploration and other skills which help such as drones.



bad idea, it will slowly turn EVE into a rollercoaster MMO.

People should take some time to train stuff and in the mean while they can figure out what they like and don't like. Also why should you give people more boosts in SP, after they got rid of the learning skills and the massive buff in attributes skilling as a newb takes so much less them then before.

Also on having to wait 16-30 min before you can run a mission as you lacked a certain skill, never seen that happen *unless you do a mining agent while you are a pew pew skilled character or the other way around*. Even then you could have moved towards another agent to check one of his missions out while you train the skill.


typical old tired excuse to not change anything

Im not sure how letting players dabble in the goods right off the bat is a bad thing nor do i see how this slowly turns EVE, of all games, into roller coaster mmo. What im trying to say is those are skills your average noobie is going to skill into anyway during the first month,which is easily the worst part of the game. The first month is pretty much all about getting a good base of skills, my idea does away with that and moves onto the much enjoyed and less skill hectic 2 month.

On the tutorial missions i had to wait for 2 skills to train first since i completed the other agents, Industry 1 for manufacturing and Astrometrics for exploration. then there are those times you need a certain module and have to train for it.
Lawton Steele
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-02-02 19:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lawton Steele
I am a new player. Today will be my fourth day (when I get home from work). In the last few days I've completed most of the tutorials, just a couple missions left on two agents; waiting on my training to do them.

My observations:


  • The tutorials are invaluable for learning the interface and seem to cover most of the gameplay mechanics nicely.
  • If you do the tutorials you'll be swimming in enough ISK to afford what you need many times over.
  • While the interface can be obscure, I found it very easy to pick up and use. I learned most of it by intuition, something acquired from long years of gaming and using computers. A casual gamer or one used to WoW might find the interface extremely difficult to learn, but I think CCP did quite well with the tutorials.
  • I've played over a dozen MMO's since the very first ones came onto the scene (Meridian 59, Everquest). There has only ever been one other MMO that came close to the complexity of EVE--Star Wars Galaxies (initial release). I've been burned out on MMO's for years now. EVE is a refreshing change, something you can sink your teeth into and take your time developing.
  • Some of the sentiments of the OP harken back to Star Wars Galaxies and the reason it went from ground-breaking to abysmal--the users griped and complained until it was hammered into pulp by the devs. I'm not faulting the OP for their opinion and their frustration, but SW:G and how it ended up should never happen again; developers should never compromise their vision. Thankfully, CCP hasn't changed their formula just to make people happy. In a day and age of PC games that are designed for consoles first and have been simplified, it's nice to find a game that has the depth and detail I've been craving for a long time, one worthy of the PC *shakes fist at consoles*.
  • Average joe MMO gamer is going to look at EVE or try it and come to the conclusion that it's too difficult or too in-depth for their taste. Those that stick with it will reap the rewards of a better gaming experience.


Again, I'm not trying to offend or fault the OP, I'm just giving my perspective, from my point of view as a new EVE player and my experiences in the past. My slight angst isn't aimed at the OP, so please don't take it the wrong way. I'm glad the OP was able to turn around their initial feelings about EVE and get over the hump.

Long story short, I'm glad EVE exists. Don't change a thing. Tomorrow I become a paying member. :)
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#65 - 2012-02-02 19:32:15 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

So a welcome mail to new players with some directions on where to look for certain things (EVE wiki, recruitment channels, Rookie help / help channels, EVE forums etc.) would be nice.


As apart of our job as ISD:STAR members we do contact new members.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISD_STAR wrote:
One of their duties is to personally greet new players, giving them a good start in the game as well as welcoming them to the Eve universe.


We do our best to help guide new players into the game and welcome them. Since we are volunteers we can't always get to everyone but we do our best to provide as much help as possible. If you asked any ISD member that you might see in Rookie Help or even the Help Channel and would a few links that we know are useful to new players feel free to ask for them as we have them.

I know while I'm in Rookie Help I post 1 link that answers a lot of common questions and I have a lot of links on specific items/mechanics/Guides.

If you are interested in helping out new players please feel free to apply to ISD:STAR or come talk to me (Mail or Convo) and I will do my best to answer questions as best as I can. We can always use more volunteers to help us greet the new players and welcome them into the EVE Smile

Fly safe o/

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011

Lawton Steele
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-02-02 19:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lawton Steele
Speaking of help...

I had newb helper go out of their way to try and get ahold of me the last couple days, both in chat and via multiple e-mails. I was so engrossed that I didn't pay attention to chat or e-mail, so I missed them. When I did finally find the contacts I was pleasantly surprised that the person trying to help me was persistent and going out of their way, something I wasn't expecting. Judging from my experience and the one time I asked a question in the Rookie chat room, EVE has some of the most generous and helpful players that I've seen in any MMO. I greatly appreciate their efforts.
Buffy Pod Slayer
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-02-02 20:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Buffy Pod Slayer
I've been playing for about a week and I don't really experience any of the problems you mention.

The tutorials basically hand hold you through the 101 stuff, rest is easily available in evelopedia/google, or the (i) button next to basically everything.

Don't know what signature resolution means? Google. You'll find your answer in 1 minute.

This is further helped by the fact this game is very alt-tab friendly.

Also, the tutorials explicitly mention that IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN ITEM X, buy it off the market, which is exactly what you should do. I never ran to that problem myself anyway, seeing I had multiples of Civilian X everything in my inventory (I completed the advanced career tutorials in the order they appear on the tutorial pop-up list). The civilian versions have no preqs, so you don't even need to skill up on them to finish the tutorials.

And like it's already been mentioned, I absolutely LOVE the fact this game actually requires you to think/read/study (it's basically a requirement to be able to play EVE in the first place).
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#68 - 2012-02-02 20:53:30 UTC
I'm a helpy guy too o/

The Drake is a Lie

Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-02-03 12:37:00 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
If you are interested in helping out new players please feel free to apply to ISD:STAR or come talk to me (Mail or Convo) and I will do my best to answer questions as best as I can. We can always use more volunteers to help us greet the new players and welcome them into the EVE Smile


The problem with joining ISD:STAR is you can't recruit the newbies you're helping into your corp P.


To the newbies: Eve was fairly complex to start with and then they decided they like doing 2 expansions a year, for 9 years or so... so there is a great deal to learn.

Eve's community has a reputation for being a despicable bunch of scammers and scoundrels, but there are more than enough people who are willing to help out a newbie, even if it is through enlightened self interest. We've all been through the pain of learning the upside down logic that has been used at some points in Eve's development.

The very best way of learning is a combination of "give it a go" and "ask a friend". Try things out and if you are feeling lost, or a finer detail eludes you, join the help channels and ask.

Last thing: I've been playing for 8 years, and I still feel lost and confused by some of the random details; I still pickup things I missed and never knew from the help channel answers; so don't be overly concerned at the lost feeling if you get it. The worst that can ever happen is you get dead, but in Eve your immortal, so don't worry about that too much, just make sure you're enjoying the ride.

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.

Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-02-08 12:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Degren
CCP Legion wrote:

Great to see you are sticking with it, even if the beginning is what it is. As many have said, the community is often the best way to get help and tips.

The new player experience is something we are taking a long hard look at now (I am part of a new team dedicated to this). Even if the tutorials give a lot of information, they don't do it in a clear, intuitive and fun way. There is a lot that can be done about them.

Do let us know whether you decide to continue :)


I *am* glad to see this. Few friends of mine might have stuck around more if the tutorial covered more. Those videos you guys put out periodically would be handy links also. ...and maybe a big fat warning somewhere that says "THIS GAME WILL TAKE TIME TO LEARN, BUCKLE UP AND HAVE SOME PATIENCE"

One thing that might be handy to cover is ship fittings. Explaining how the windows work for modules, what CPU/Powergrid are, turrets slots and launcher slots not being the same as highs, etc would have been handy info in the tutorial. It's not terribly hard to pick up, it just seemed strange that it wouldn't be touched on.

All of this can, and does, come from the community and rookie chat, but...y'know. That safe guiding hand of the developer (at least for a week) might be encouraging.

Hello, hello again.