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Last straw I'm afraid. A potentially long-term player just cant see when the fun starts.

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Blackavar Sul
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-01-04 23:22:31 UTC
Thank you very much for your helpful, constructive and encouraging replies. I have been using rookie help; it can be quite useful if there is a CCP employee in there moderating it. When the channel is left to it's own devices it tends to degenerate into racism and homophobia just like any other MMO but hey - welcome to the internet. On the whole I have found rookie help to be really useful.

Overall the community, both mod and player has been really helpful and encouraging, probably the most of any MMO I've playedSmile.

Today I think I had a bit of a breakthrough - I played ten hours and managed almost all of that time in-game. i.e. not out here, desperately looking for help to explain counter-intuitive UI or unexplained tasks. It seemed like a real breakthrough for me today. Who knows - perhaps this could be a turning point for me.

Thank you for the offers of help in-game. I may well take you up on it. Cheers.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-01-04 23:34:08 UTC
The easiest solution to your problem is to join a corp.

I used to recommend Eve University but they wouldn't let me join, something about hating me. That could've been CVA too, don't remember.

Eve University teaches new people how to play so you should probably try them first.

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Blackavar Sul
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-01-05 00:07:05 UTC
People seem to suggest picking a path and joining a Corp that supports that task, others suggest joining a learner Corp such as EVE university. Is it reasonable to start with a tutor corp and then move to a PVP/mining/exploration corp later on? (that is assuming they'll have me...)
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#24 - 2012-01-05 00:13:36 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:
People seem to suggest picking a path and joining a Corp that supports that task, others suggest joining a learner Corp such as EVE university. Is it reasonable to start with a tutor corp and then move to a PVP/mining/exploration corp later on? (that is assuming they'll have me...)


Both are good options. I've never been a fan of EVE-Uni or starter corps in general but I've heard enough good things about them that I can't really tell you not to.
J Kunjeh
#25 - 2012-01-05 00:29:59 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:
People seem to suggest picking a path and joining a Corp that supports that task, others suggest joining a learner Corp such as EVE university. Is it reasonable to start with a tutor corp and then move to a PVP/mining/exploration corp later on? (that is assuming they'll have me...)


You should feel free to join any corp that fits what you need in the game right now, and then move on to another at a later time when those needs change.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Zendo Akuma
Jester's Fleet
Jester's Alliance
#26 - 2012-01-05 02:08:36 UTC
Blackavar Sul wrote:
People seem to suggest picking a path and joining a Corp that supports that task, others suggest joining a learner Corp such as EVE university. Is it reasonable to start with a tutor corp and then move to a PVP/mining/exploration corp later on? (that is assuming they'll have me...)



It'll all depends on what you find most fun in EVE.

If you really enjoy PvP, join either the Red Federation or Blue Republic (someone correct me if i got the name wrong). These two corps are always at war with each other and can provide support for new players looking to get into PvP.

If you like mining, manufacturing, trading etc, join an industrial Corp. They will provide all the items you need to start off you manufacturing.

If you like PvE, you can always run missions or go exploring wormholes. If you want to explore some wormholes, just contact me in game and i can set up a fleet.


The first few weeks is the toughest, once you get over that hurdle, EVE becomes a lot 'easier'.

Mainly because by then, you can actually fly ships that can be of some use
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-01-05 02:40:35 UTC
Zendo Akuma wrote:


Mainly because by then, you can actually fly ships that can be of some use


coming from a background of terrible pirate corps I have to point out that a noob ship with a point still has a point Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

malaire
#28 - 2012-01-05 11:58:46 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
As for tutorials if your missing items and it says that you received them first check the tutorials tab. F12 > Tutorials, this is where all the tutorials are located and you can always go back to them and look at them again. They won't give you the items if you already received them but you can read them again. If they don't give you the items you can always file a petition and just talk to a GM about it and let them know what happened. F12 > Petition > Game play > missions in progress. Just gotta take it slowly and read all of the missions and go through it step by step and make sure you read all of the pop-up windows.


The problem is that "crash course" mentioned by OP is NOT listed there - because such tutorial does not exist anymore. That was replaced by AURA tutorials.

So any reference to "crash course" in game is bug and should be fixed.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2012-01-06 01:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Zendo Akuma wrote:
Mainly because by then, you can actually fly ships that can be of some use
coming from a background of terrible pirate corps I have to point out that a noob ship with a point still has a point Big smile

Other little-known rookie ship facts for jaded veterans:

* All rookie ships can carry 1 drone.

* A gang of rookie ships with ECM drones and warp disruptors and webbers can make for a lot of cheap fun.

* Rookie ship kills and losses don't appear on all killboard websites, so there is often no stigma attached to losing them.

* On the killboards that track rookie ship losses, a loss of hundreds of them will typically not make a dent in a corporation's efficiency rating.

* You can fit a Cynosural Field Generator I to a rookie ship with the addition of an Micro Auxillary Power Core I, and potentially have several hundred friends titan bridge to you in lowsec / nulsec. Of course, you are pretty much guaranteed to find yourself quickly podded (most cyno alt characters have less than 900,000 skill points so they don't have to purchase a clone upgrade, as they die a lot). It is easier to haul just the modules around than frigates and the modules.
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-01-07 01:58:04 UTC
malaire wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
As for tutorials if your missing items and it says that you received them first check the tutorials tab. F12 > Tutorials, this is where all the tutorials are located and you can always go back to them and look at them again. They won't give you the items if you already received them but you can read them again. If they don't give you the items you can always file a petition and just talk to a GM about it and let them know what happened. F12 > Petition > Game play > missions in progress. Just gotta take it slowly and read all of the missions and go through it step by step and make sure you read all of the pop-up windows.


The problem is that "crash course" mentioned by OP is NOT listed there - because such tutorial does not exist anymore. That was replaced by AURA tutorials.

So any reference to "crash course" in game is bug and should be fixed.

Not only should all reference to the Crash Course be removed, but also either the skillbooks and modules previously given out by that course should now be provided by other means or the tutorials should be restructured to take account of the new circumstances.

If the petitioning advice is followed, every single player taking the tutorials will be submitting multiple petitions.

Surely it would be far more effcient to simply fix the tutorials?
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#31 - 2012-01-08 15:20:19 UTC
I've actually run through all the tutorials recently and had no problems at all - and trust me, they are much, much improved over their previous states. I'd be interested in knowing exactly which missions you ran into this problem with?
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-01-09 01:18:41 UTC
Am I playing the same game as everyone else?

Mara Rinn wrote:
gfldex wrote:
The last mission in the combat tutorials is a nice trap.


Well, it certainly does serve to remind players to read the fine instructions. The mission agent specifically states that the aim of the mission is to fight until your ship explodes. If you're silly enough to think you can overpower the mission and come back in violation of the stated aims of the mission, the mission will be bringing you down a peg or two.

That was Mission 5 when I took the tutorial, not Mission 10, which just requires you to kill the terrorist leader (although it's sensible to take out his webbing wingmen first).


Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-01-09 04:17:24 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:


Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?


Haha, that's the way I learned Pirate

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Ira Theos
#34 - 2012-01-09 17:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ira Theos
Blackavar Sul wrote:
Dear CCP.
You have made what I'm sure is a fine game and it has been successful, with what I gather is something like 400,000 people playing at one time or another. I really believe that this number could have been so many times more than that if you had made the game enjoyable for new players .

I have put about 10 days on and off into the game and it has just been one struggle after another. Every single gindingly painful step forward has been accompanied with hours spent out of the game reading forums and "beginner" guides to the game, scratching my head trying to work out if and when the game might become in any way intuitive. I have deliberately taken the game slow, moving through the initial tutorial and then when prompted starting the career agents. Even this stage of the game is a mess. I have an agent telling me I own a piece of equipment that I do not own. He tells me I got it from the "crash course". I have done everything they have asked of me and I certainly do not own that kit. So I hit f12. Cant see anything about a crash course. I do a search for it. It dosn't seem to be anything I can find within the game interface in any way. I eventually give up and sit and wonder if this game is ever going to be worth the effort. This is the sort of counter-intuitive mess I expect at launch, not many years into a successful MMO's lifespan. This is clearly just a small problem that I could probably sort out by asking on a forum and by searching elsewhere, but the problem is that I'm having to do that for so so much of the game. I'm finding myself in that situation every day.

There will be plenty of people that will say well - if you cant stand a complex game then get out of here and play something easy. But I do enjoy big complex games. I would consider myself a gamer. I have been playing videogames for 30 years. I own over 200 boardgames. I play multiple tabletop wargame systems and I would definitely consider myself someone who is ready to embrace big deep complex games. However - that also means that I expect a decent standard of gameplay out of a big MMO and EVE seems determined to make life as hard as possible for the player in so many unnessessary ways. I don't need the game to be simple, but I just wish it would't be so so obtuse.

Also - ten days into an MMO and I'm afraid I have experienced two views. The inside of my cabin, and the orangy dust clouds of space. I understand that a game set in space will be faced with this problem but the most exiting thing I've seen so far has been a dot in the distance that I have been shooting at. I have not yet encountered anything new, I have not yet encountered any other player other than to see a ship leave the space station and fly off. I'm pretty sure that if I was to head off somewhere for some PVP that would pretty quickly be the end of me. I can't see how I can encounter other players in any way other than in distant chat or in one-sided combat.

I'm just so gutted. I really wanted to enjoy the game. The genre is so poorly served and I really hoped that EVE would provide something satisfying. I love my games, I love my sci-fi, I have disposable income and plenty of free time and I am exactly the sort of gamer that CCP could hook into for years for a game like this. However the game conspires at every turn to frustrate and to turn what should be a game into something that is just hard hard work. As soon as I think I'm making some progress I'll inevitably be faced with a small problem that has no answers in-game and requires me to leave the game and spend an hour searching the net. That is not gaming.

So, I'm sorry CCP, I really think it's likely that you could have many more subscribers than you do if you had done things differently. Not by making the game easier - just by explaining it's complexities more effectively and by designing a UI that works. I guess I'll have to keep looking for a decent space game. X3 seems my best bet. So frustrated.


What an absolutely brilliant post! By a NEW SUBSCRIBER who is an obviously committed "gamer" with DISPOSABLE CASH.
How totally illustrative of some of the problems with Eve vis-a-vis the new player experience.
If he is frustrated now, just wait until he gets to the meat of the sovereignty game.
And CCP's attitutde toward him? "GTFO, you are unfit to play EVE!"

You know if I was an investor in CCP, I'd want to lay off more than the 20% they got rid of.
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2012-01-09 22:45:01 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:
malaire wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
As for tutorials if your missing items and it says that you received them first check the tutorials tab. F12 > Tutorials, this is where all the tutorials are located and you can always go back to them and look at them again. They won't give you the items if you already received them but you can read them again. If they don't give you the items you can always file a petition and just talk to a GM about it and let them know what happened. F12 > Petition > Game play > missions in progress. Just gotta take it slowly and read all of the missions and go through it step by step and make sure you read all of the pop-up windows.


The problem is that "crash course" mentioned by OP is NOT listed there - because such tutorial does not exist anymore. That was replaced by AURA tutorials.

So any reference to "crash course" in game is bug and should be fixed.

Not only should all reference to the Crash Course be removed, but also either the skillbooks and modules previously given out by that course should now be provided by other means or the tutorials should be restructured to take account of the new circumstances.

If the petitioning advice is followed, every single player taking the tutorials will be submitting multiple petitions.

Surely it would be far more effcient to simply fix the tutorials?


As far as I am aware the modules/skill books are handed out perfectly fine. I personally have run through the initial AURA tutorials and did not have any issues. I received all the modules and skill books that AURA handouts without any issues. Please note that most of them you have to go through ALL dialog boxes in order to receive most of the materials, some of them are handed out one at a time per page.

I haven't gone through the career agents so I don't know from first hand experience the issues that might arise there. If there are issues that you notice please don't hesitate to file a petition if you feel that something is missing/wrong.

Along with that your always welcome to mail me personally or another ISD member about the issues that your facing and we will try to work them out to see where there are issues. As for your suggestions I will pass them up to my leads and inform them of what you have said as we do have a list of known complaints/issues going. If you have any ideas on how to help resolve it please feel free to mail one of us and let us know.

Fly safe o/

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2012-01-10 14:55:09 UTC
Ira Theos wrote:
And CCP's attitutde toward him? "GTFO, you are unfit to play EVE!"


Why are you blatantly inventing an attitude that obviously doesn't exist?

Whilst some players may hold this attitude, I've never seen any statement by any CCP employee that remotely supports your lie.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Velicitia
XS Tech
#37 - 2012-01-10 15:48:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ira Theos wrote:
And CCP's attitutde toward him? "GTFO, you are unfit to play EVE!"


Why are you blatantly inventing an attitude that obviously doesn't exist?

Whilst some players may hold this attitude, I've never seen any statement by any CCP employee that remotely supports your lie.


don't bother Malc ... all he does is ***** about how "bad" CCP/EVE is.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-01-10 16:00:06 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
As far as I am aware the modules/skill books are handed out perfectly fine. I personally have run through the initial AURA tutorials and did not have any issues. I received all the modules and skill books that AURA handouts without any issues. Please note that most of them you have to go through ALL dialog boxes in order to receive most of the materials, some of them are handed out one at a time per page.

I haven't gone through the career agents so I don't know from first hand experience the issues that might arise there. If there are issues that you notice please don't hesitate to file a petition if you feel that something is missing/wrong.

If you haven't gone through the career tutorials how can you say everything is fine?

The issue here isn't that all Aura's handouts aren't given, but that one or two career tutorials require the new player to use items not given by Aura and which aren't given anywhere else.

I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

For instance: in another thread there's mention of the fact that Aura tells you that the career tutorials can be done in any order but that if you start with Balancing the Books you can't do Mission 3 because you have no mining equipment. I mistakenly replied to that thread by saying the rookie ship's civilian miner could be used, forgetting that although I started with that tutorial I already knew of the repackage/re-assemble trick and got my mining laser that way.
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#39 - 2012-01-10 19:20:17 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:
ISD Athechu wrote:
As far as I am aware the modules/skill books are handed out perfectly fine. I personally have run through the initial AURA tutorials and did not have any issues. I received all the modules and skill books that AURA handouts without any issues. Please note that most of them you have to go through ALL dialog boxes in order to receive most of the materials, some of them are handed out one at a time per page.

I haven't gone through the career agents so I don't know from first hand experience the issues that might arise there. If there are issues that you notice please don't hesitate to file a petition if you feel that something is missing/wrong.

If you haven't gone through the career tutorials how can you say everything is fine?

The issue here isn't that all Aura's handouts aren't given, but that one or two career tutorials require the new player to use items not given by Aura and which aren't given anywhere else.

I'm a very meticulous person (much to the annoyance of all my RL line managers!) and went through all the mini-tutorials that pop up along the way, but I still had to buy items that hadn't been provided (leaving aside those that have to be bought as part of the tutorial learning experience).

For instance: in another thread there's mention of the fact that Aura tells you that the career tutorials can be done in any order but that if you start with Balancing the Books you can't do Mission 3 because you have no mining equipment. I mistakenly replied to that thread by saying the rookie ship's civilian miner could be used, forgetting that although I started with that tutorial I already knew of the repackage/re-assemble trick and got my mining laser that way.


Did you go through all of the tutorial windows with the career agents? As you have to go through the windows to get the items that your looking for. Otherwise if the agent/tutorial didn't give you the item it said it would then you need to file a petition and let the GMs know.

I also said I have gone through the initial Aura tutorials under the tutorials tab I am talking about A new life: Your first days 01-24. I am not speaking on behalf of the career agents as i have not done them so I don't know if they are issues. Which is why I have asked for anyone to report issues with the career agents to an ISD member so we can add it to the list we are making.

Thank you for your example and I will add it to our list.

On a personal note I am still in the process of working through all of the tutorials and making notes of problems that I find.

Fly Safe o/

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011

Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2012-01-10 19:47:45 UTC
Ettu Brute II wrote:

Velicitia wrote:
You forgot the only "tutorial" about lowsec being the popup at a gate.

What pop-up?


"Warning, you're going to a lowsec system and CONCORD won't be there to protect you." Or something along those lines, haven't had that warning on in YEARS (well, save for when I reinstall the client due to a new PC or something ... but it dies soon thereafter).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia