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Player Owned Customs Office: Your feedback on the past month

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Author
Javadude
Java Industrial Services
#61 - 2012-01-06 14:27:27 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Hello and a happy new year!

We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.

Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.

1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?


Best regards
CCP Omen



First and foremost, I would like to thank you guys for all the hardwork you've been doing in PI, I'm running 50 planets so I'm not exdactly thrilled everytime you guys come out with a change that forces me to rethink or even re-do my planets and I do grumble but after that shakeout, I do appreciate the direction you are trying to go with it.

1. My alliance assumed all ownereship of all poco's in the sov and set the rate at 15%, which actually I'm ok with, I have a serious problem with CCP at the fact that the charigng point is a static rate pulled out of the air when prices were up because people were stock piling. It would really be nice if that tax rate was recalculated on the first of each month or something based on a resample snap shot.

The problem with this is even within any corporation or alliance, you'll never get someone to go around and re-adjust things. The reason why (a) greed; (b) lazy; (c) PI to them is one step below mining. If you floated the tax rate against a weighted market average rather than a static grab, none of us would be so pissed about the fact that you forced socialist mechanisms of failed economies into the game. You only made big alliances richer with the tax rates and stuck it to the guys who do all the work.

2. No

3. Allliances are loving CCP for this, as the greedy @sshats who usually only login to stuff thier pockets and log out, they thank you. What is this corp profit you speak of? You know all the alliances are calling POCO ownership the new techmoon income.

4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move.

5. Thought it was funny warping around a fleet of 5 supers and 3 carriers swapping out POCO's, seemed like a good use of time lol.


Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#62 - 2012-01-06 15:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Dant
Javadude wrote:
4. More now that the Big Alliances are taking it all over in Null Sec. You guys really thought this would benefit small corporations? LOL you didn't factor in an inherent trait of eve, greedy RMT stuffing pocket alliances leaderships leeching on to one more revenue stream they can convert to real currency. All alliance learders are dirty, plain and simple. Expect more honesty from a User Card Dealership when you plan your next move.

Alliances putting up POCOs in their space sounds about the normal, expected behaviour. The chances for smaller corps are where they have always been, in lowsec and npc 0.0.

I'm curious what the situation looks like in Syndicate and Curse. Are there POCOs there? Who owns them?

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Lyra Blazing
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-01-06 16:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyra Blazing
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

Well PI is mostly a Click fest and boring as hell. I also dont like the fact that you have to watch you planets every day or loose output. Only Reason i have to do PI at all is running a pos and some T2 production. If it gets any worse like more products needing PI i am going to quite doing it and just buy off the market.

All said i preferred buying that stuff from npcs and would love to get back to that.

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

Well i heard of ppl taking down Interbus COs not exactly sure if thats pvp.

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

ATM i am running 5 planets for POS fuel. If the COs are removed by someone i am going to quit doing PI and buy the stuff from the Goons or some other large Alliance.

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

Well you need that crap for pos fuel and some T2 so its not like anybody has a choice

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

Well i saw 4 of 5 in lowsec not sure if thats qualifies as a story.

Btw can we get the old forums back ? This was my first post on the new forums and eve gate sucks.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-01-06 16:45:31 UTC


1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

The fact that corp->char standings are not considered, inability to adjust tax rates for P0, P1, P2, P3, P4s etc and finally planetary launches should be a viable option for producing P1s.

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

Yes, but not significantly.

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

Yes, so long as null sec alliances continue to ignore low-sec POCOs. If a null sec alliance decides to just steam roll POCOs in low sec "for the lulz" then these new opportunities will quickly disappear.

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

PI has always been relevant so long as POS fuels are dependent upon it. Many people have made enough money off of PI alone to PLEX their account.

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

In the first week after Crucible, a wormhole spawned in the low sec loop. The local pies, whom i had befriended despite being a massive carebear, scouted the wormhole and found two oracles bashing an Interbus CO in their wormhole system. The pies invited me to the bash and I took them up on the offer. I brought an Oracle of my own to the fleet. It was a text book maneuver: we jumped in, warped to the targets, lit them up, looted, pillaged and jumped out.
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-01-06 20:30:01 UTC
I will start with three points:

One - I am a high security planet farmer and cultivator (or at least role-play).

Two - As a paradox to this game, I am more the creator type of player than the destroyer type.

Three - While most players seem to accept PI (closer to borderline despise), I actually like running my planets.

So when the POCOs were announced, I really did not give it much thought. My small group of planets off the beaten path in high security space did not seem to have been noticed by the general populance, so doing my own little thing was not stressful. While I was not making top ISK farming planets, I made enough that slowly expanding my number of planets and the bases on each planet was not running me dry. At one point, I considered building and saving enough pieces of combined planetary goods to create my own station if someday I desired. Then the POCOs were released.

The first issue I noticed was just how expensive everything became from building nothing into something. Instead of each item having its own taxing price, all the goods were clumped by their tiers. Thus items that barely had a market presence would cost just as much to take it off a planet as items like station fuels that always sold. So I started to consider tooling everything towards stuff that constantly sold and hope I could make a meager profit. But then what would I do to my planets that were already established and not tooled towards station fuels only?

The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).

The third issue I noticed was mentioned by another poster above me - using the floating CO above the planet as an oversized storage container was running my wallet dry. So I pondered either running into the red and go all out whenever I struck a good vein on the planet or curtail extractions and let the bases have periods of idling as I drain materials into the highest tier of product. Either route would not be bringing in the ISK.

The fourth issue I noticed was I suddenly had neighbors, and plenty of them on my nice, quiet planets. My good veins on a planet were drying faster than I was extracting and became quite annoyed at these interlopers. Perhaps these players were low security runners that got scared of the new potential owners and quickly ran into high security space for safety. For me, I suddenly had a temporary change of heart and did an 180 degree turn and wanted to destroy them. I looked into the Dust game as a means of removing them but realized high security space would not be affected. Fortunately, it seems these neighbors were not fond of my planets and have departed, leaving me to toil away in peace once again. But I still have an urge every now and then of blasting someone else's planetary base even though such games are not something I would considered playing previously.

The fifth and most recent issue I noticed has been the stabilization of the markets once again with people playing the 0.01 ISK game. Unfortunately I do not have the time nor patience to baby sit my orders. So as I set up sell orders and then wait and wait and wait until I finally get to check upon it to find it is the highest costing order. Meanwhile, the taxes from moving goods back and forth on a planet are taking its toll. While it is mere pocket change for most, nearly 42 million just in taxes are taking its toll on the dwindling market.

So I will have to start a main profession (probably missions) since I will have to delegate planetary interaction into a secondary means of support instead of my primary means of having fun creating something in a destructive game.

Please do not take this as a whining post, but as a high security player's perspective upon the release of the POCOs.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#66 - 2012-01-06 21:54:28 UTC
pmchem wrote:
I have a hard time believing pretty much anything Toku Jiang said, as it's wildly divergent from other lowsec reports and his character / corp have absolutely no public killboard history. Obvious alt posting in self-interest or troll is obvious.

edit -- he also previously said this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=286944#post286944
"I don't run missions or rat any more, I only do PI for money and I do it all in high sec 0.5 systems. Essentially I have little risk of pirates, and I can do it all in one or two systems. I use 4 characters 4 with level 4 skills 1 with level 5 and crank out PI materials in large doses. My monthly income is a little over 1 billion per month, it takes about 2 hours every few days to reset the PI setups and haul the materials to a central location."

In other words, he's a highsec extractor who is all angry that he's getting hit by taxes, and is just making stuff up about lowsec since he's unhappy about highsec extraction in the patch.



Yes this is an alt. Yes this is an alt corp specifically for industry so ya no kills, And yes doing PI in lowsec was making a lot of money. And yes the corp where I keep my "main" account liked to roam in that particular lowsec area, but no longer. Now the lowsec area is dead that we were utilizing. Have recently moved to another lowsec area where an alliance has taken over and managed the POCOs and taxes are 10% and things are slowly getting back to normal and we can find fights. As to highsec I never did PI in highsec the yields were never high enough to bother in my opinion.

I still think the POCO's are a **** poor idea and have only been implemented to accommdate DUST, which I hope the game dies off quickly
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#67 - 2012-01-06 22:44:50 UTC
CCP, I never considered using the CO for buffer storage. But apparently others have, and the high taxes have hit them hard. A possible addition to PI that would help this situation is to allow launchpads to be upgraded to have more storage. Each upgrade would have a cost about equal to a warehouse, but unlike adding a warehouse PIN you do not need to worry about getting the routing right, or doing expedited transfers.

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Dal Thrax
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#68 - 2012-01-07 18:58:38 UTC
I agree with the poster who suggested a planetary marketplace. Individual in game planetary market bulletin boards (similar to craigslist) might help to create a sense of community/place for major planets.

While tax rates are fine, the depletion mechanic needs to be examined by an economist to make sure that both high sec and null have a comparative advantage to engage in planetary trade.

Could you add a list of all CCs on a planet so that I don’t have to hunt each one down it I want to see that player’s setup. Also, it would be nice of the PI interface under the science in industry tab would list the number of extractors each planet has, how long each has on its cycle and the contents/m3 of each storage structure.

To make silos more useful increase the bandwidth of links between a spaceport and a silo to 60,000m3/hour and between silos to 10,000m3/hour. If I’m understanding mechanics right this would allow me to have one spaceport , drop 10,000m3 into it and have the factories immediately pull the landed materials into silos. This means that I only need to have once spaceport on a factory world and the routing will automatically sort any landed PI products into the correct storage area.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#69 - 2012-01-07 21:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.

Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.

Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.

THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

jakejekel
Metallurgy Incorporated
#70 - 2012-01-07 23:25:23 UTC
TL;DR other then first page. so sorry if it has been said, but


we need a way to change the corp wallet that the taxes go into.


also, an idea might be to allow us to anchor guns and e-war like at a pos?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#71 - 2012-01-08 20:41:17 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
All I have to say is CCP ripped away one successful business opportunity that I had going.

Even broke down and disbanded my Low Sec PI Corp - Bison - Placid PI.

Casual players don't have the time devotion to defend the near 'defenseless' POCO's.

THIS was seriously the worst, most unnecessary utter-mechanics change idea in awhile for the game, TBH.


1. Anything outside of Hisec is EVE's group play mode. Find someone willing to defend the POCOs for a reasonable fee (tax)

2. Deathstar POSes die all the time. Without a fleet, everything that's nailed down gets lit on fire.

3. Just because you can't adapt ... blah blah blah, adapt or die, etc.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-01-08 21:41:25 UTC
I would really like some form of container that would fit in a cargohold that I could type in a certain number of m3 and it would create a stack of exactly that number of m3 of contents. Actually for that matter why don't we just have an option to split stacks by m3 (either in general or at the customs office)?

Using a calculator is OK but a bit time consuming especially when things are getting hot.

Actually a 10,000m3 Titanic Secure Container would probably be best (thought would quickly get used to expand hauler capacity if it offered a compression).
Aries Darkstar
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#73 - 2012-01-09 01:15:48 UTC
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

You need to be able to set CORP to INDIVIDUAL standings for tax rates. In 0.0 corp to corp is not an issue, but if you want to "rent out" better PI tax levels (which im trying to do) you NEED to be able to adjust PI tax to individuals, as whole corps will not always want to do PI in low sec....
Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#74 - 2012-01-09 01:35:58 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:


1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?


Haven't really played around it much.

Quote:
2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?


Yes, definitely. We see a lot of opportunities for fights coming from publicly visible timers or just from catching people shooting a poco. There is not a single week since their introduction where there hasn't been a conflict around pocos in the area we tend to keep tabs on.

Quote:
3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?


At least in low sec most pocos seem to be run by local corps, so i'd answer with a yes. It gives smaller corps an opportunity to stake a claim and to defend it. If if the big entities come and take the pocos down for the lulz as some said, they won't keep doing that (bit too much effort) and nobody will move bigger fleets around just for the sake of defending a poco thats worth less than 2 t2 fitted BS.

Quote:
4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?


It has become more dynamic probably, more player driven. Which is good i think.

Quote:
5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

We've had a couple of nice fights that originated from a conflict about the ownership of a poco. What makes them special is that you quite often get three- or fourways out of them because its pretty easy to notice the timer compared to lets say a pos timer.

Overall its a great feature that encourages people to work together and is pretty much spot on at least regarding risk vs income vs reward of defending it.

pussnheels
Viziam
#75 - 2012-01-09 08:46:07 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Hello and a happy new year!

We are getting back to work and this is high time to evaluate how the Player Owned Customs Office feature worked out and potentially address any rough edges. Needless to say, we have been monitoring the developments for any major issues, and several defects were fixed during the past month. With this thread we want to collect your impressions and learn how you are using the feature and how you believe it has impacted EVE.

Here are a few questions if you need help to get started. Please remember that constructive feedback is more likely to lead anywhere.

1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?


Best regards
CCP Omen


I remember when CCP published the first blog about POCO you asked for feedback

you had a 90 page or so thread feedback where the overwhelming majority of people spoke out against the idea
but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI
You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means

If this is CCP first step into forcing high sec dwellers into nulsec , , don't bother just nerf whole high sec to death now effect will be the same only second will have faster results
end result is you CCP losing customers

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#76 - 2012-01-09 09:59:08 UTC
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

- PI Taxes are fine, market do adapt. 0.0 and lowsec taxes are varied, from 0 to 20% from my experience
- 35.000 m3 of storage in the custom ofice is not enough since 1) it's destructible 2) taxes are expansive 3) it could be convenient to store preemptively stuff or to let materials accumulate in the POCO
- Cooldown timers for the paperwork when importing/exporting materials is annoying, as timers for onlining stuff in POS were...
- a corporate storage could be convenient...


2. Do you think the amount of PvP engagements has changed in EVE as a result of this feature?

-Yes


3. Do you think the feature has created new opportunities for small to mid-sized corporations?

-Yes of course


4. Do you think PI has become more or less relevant in EVE?

- Yes it has become much more relevant, it was a very good idea to implement POCOs


5. Do you have any awesome story related to a Player Owned Customs Office?

- Not yet but I've read some good ones in these forums


6. Happy New Year too


---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---

Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#77 - 2012-01-09 10:04:25 UTC
pussnheels wrote:

but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI
You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means

How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out?

If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing.

And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-01-09 10:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Nyrak wrote:

The second issue I noticed was how all these station fuels were going to stabilize into the eventual price per fuel block and wondered if I should push everything into that direction. Without the accessible means to gain these prints and make them perfect, in time I would loose ISK by waste of items. I understand the concept of the "haves" to the "haves not" and was not demanding any special treatment. But looking towards the future, I saw how it was going to be very difficult to keep pace in the play style I have been using (casual).


Be aware that you can buy pre-researched ME40 (perfect, no material loss) fuel block prints from contracts - there are people in EVE who have the spare research slots and do business in producing researched blueprint originals. For any small time production it is rarely cost-effective to do your own blueprint research (station slots are always full and research POS running costs are considerable if all you are looking to do is to research a few blueprints)

Perfectly researched fuel block BPO is about 15-25 million ISK (depends a bit on the day as to what the cheapest are going for, but usually under 20 mil) compared to bit under 10 million for unreseached one, this is a fairly small cost to pay in order to be able to produce POS fuel blocks and it is one-time investment which can be re-sold back to someone else via contracts if you no longer want to build fuel blocks. And yes, it could be a good market to be in if you already produce all the PI components - just buy the ice components off the market and manufacture blocks at some station. It will be a high volume market come 24th of January. It won't have massive margins (if blocks cost a lot more than components, POS runners just keep buying fuel components and manufacture the blocks themselves) but it is a way to sell your PI as a more refined finished good.

You would have to set up some spreadsheets and do the math carefully tho - the market is bound to be choppy early on and you wouldn't want to sell blocks below the cost of the materials required to produce them. There will be days when PI goods for a single block cost more than the block and there will be days when it is other way around. This will continue until the market stabilizes and eventually the blocks will cost a bit more than their parts.

You could even go one stop further and train ice refining skills and get suitable hauling capacity and instead of buying isotopes, heavy water and liquid ozone, you could go and buy unrefined ice from ice miners. Then refine, add PI products, produce blocks... Dont' have a Freighter? No problem, you can set up a courier contract and "buy" the service of hauling the ice to the station where you refine it (or refine it where it was sold to you, haul the refined goods which take lot less space).

Almost everything in EVE can be "outsourced". - you just have to think a bit as to what to do yourself, what to "outsource" (buy on the market/contracts) and how to ensure that the final stuff you offload to the market leaves something "under the line" for your troubles. It is often silly to try to do everything yourself - better to optimize and learn one aspect of the game where there is clear demand and do that, expanding to other markets slowly and only if you are certain it is profitable.

Oh and a little tip; If you are unable to keep up with 0,01 ISK games, consider selling the finished product at a less traveled market hub. While Jita has by far the greatest trade volume, it also has many dedicated station traders that do nothing but fight 0,01 ISK games all day selling products that they bought using cheaper buy orders. While you may hate them when you are selling something on a sell order, they are also very nice to have whenever you are buying something off a sell order - without constant market price wars, prices you pay would be higher.

Heck, as a mass producer I usually just use the buy order price to determine profitability - meaning that I won't even consider manufacturing something unless I can just sell the finished goods to standing buy orders at a profit. That way I can completely ignore the 0,01 ISK games and just sell. The time saved can be used for something more productive.

Alternatively you can drop your stuff on the market at a considerable drop to the lowest sell order - say if something is selling for 1000 ISK an unit and the highest buy order is 800, put the stuff up for sell order at 900 ISK. Most likely the 0,01 ISK people won't jump to undercut you and what you put up will sell quick (it might even sell to the 0,01 ISK people who then flip it around at 100 ISK per unit more) - you still got more than when selling to a buy order and you didn't have to fight 0,01 ISK games.

(...and if what you are making isn't making a profit at all unless you use sell order and fight 0,01 ISK games, may I suggest that what you are making is offering too low profit margin and it may be time to look at something else...)
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#79 - 2012-01-09 10:19:45 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
1. Is there anything related to the Customs Office feature or PI taxes that you think is broken or terrible?

I nearly forgot, but there is one annoying bug with repairing customs offices (maybe other structures too). The shield HP on your target icon does not update when you rep, or at least not regularly. You have to shoot the CO to get an HP update.

So you will be repping for 10 minutes without any effect. Then someone shoots at the thing, and you see the HP jump up 10%.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

pussnheels
Viziam
#80 - 2012-01-09 10:20:37 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
pussnheels wrote:

but you just didn't listen you just went ahead and introduced a very biased game mechanic that basicly locks out smaller corporations and newer players from PI
You told us that it would improve player co operation and friendship , i am still convinced that you know nothing about the game or even less about economics and what competition in industry actually means

How exactly are smaller corps and new players locked out?

If it's the POCOs, I've yet to see a single lowsec office that's not open to the public. Most of them have rates of under 10%. So, just because you can't anchor and defend your own POCO, it doesn't mean you can't use someone else's. That's what the devs meant by co-operation, and it's what I'm seeing.

And, if you meant the taxes, the average for a harvest planet seem to be 3-400k a day. Compared to the setup costs of a few million, that's peanuts and will be easily recouped.


3-400k a day from a average of 150 to 200 k a day thats 100% increase
CCP devs are programmers not economist , did you had a look at fuel prices for a pos ?? no
together with the upcoming hukageddon even a small pos will be almost unaffordable

and not only that just the whole concept is horrible and smells to favoritism towards larger alliaces and the small independent corporations are left in the cold and unable to compete in industry with the bigger ones
Or are you one of those who is willing to sell your soul and give up everything you work for to join a larger alliance

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire