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Self destruct disabled by warp disrupt/scram
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Mag's
Azn Empire
#41 - 2012-01-03 18:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
I say no also. I like it that people can deny killmails and loot.

The scuttling of ships, has been a stead fast action by captains for hundreds of years. I see no reason that this action cannot be allowed in game, through the mechanic of SD. Either kill them before they die, or lose the KM and loot.
But either way their ship dies, so you still get most of what you wanted.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#42 - 2012-01-03 18:49:34 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I say no also. I like it that people can deny killmails and loot.

The scuttling of ships, has been a stead fast action by captains for hundreds of years. I see no reason that this action cannot be allowed in game, through the mechanic of SD. Either kill them before they die, or lose the KM and loot.
But either way their ship dies, so you still get most of what you wanted.

I agree it shouldn't be removed, just changed for caps, supers and titans.

Goose99 wrote:
For your example, you seem to believe kb is a reliable tool for intelligence, and anything but a joke. Let's for one second imagine it is, what entitles you to this free intelligence for recruiting? If they lost a freighter somewhere, you're entitled to know?Roll

Self destruct is working as intended - the whine and butthurt is the proof.

Someone applies to your corp, they have never ever killed anything in Eve and they've lost 3 billion ISK worth of ships flying them blindly into low sec systems. You politely reject the application. Sounds pretty reliable to me.

And yes, if someone is terrible at Eve, something should show it somewhere. If you want to remove killmails to hide your own inadequacies as a pilot, make a separate thread.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Goose99
#43 - 2012-01-03 19:05:50 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I say no also. I like it that people can deny killmails and loot.

The scuttling of ships, has been a stead fast action by captains for hundreds of years. I see no reason that this action cannot be allowed in game, through the mechanic of SD. Either kill them before they die, or lose the KM and loot.
But either way their ship dies, so you still get most of what you wanted.

I agree it shouldn't be removed, just changed for caps, supers and titans.

Goose99 wrote:
For your example, you seem to believe kb is a reliable tool for intelligence, and anything but a joke. Let's for one second imagine it is, what entitles you to this free intelligence for recruiting? If they lost a freighter somewhere, you're entitled to know?Roll

Self destruct is working as intended - the whine and butthurt is the proof.

Someone applies to your corp, they have never ever killed anything in Eve and they've lost 3 billion ISK worth of ships flying them blindly into low sec systems. You politely reject the application. Sounds pretty reliable to me.

And yes, if someone is terrible at Eve, something should show it somewhere. If you want to remove killmails to hide your own inadequacies as a pilot, make a separate thread.


People hide their inadequacies behind kb stats, not the other way around. You may not be old enough to know this, but there were pvp before kms. Now, there's blobbing and km whoring. It's all about getting on that km those days.Roll

"Oh crap, that industrial instapopped before I can get a shot off, I missed the kill!"Lol
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#44 - 2012-01-03 19:18:44 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
People hide their inadequacies behind kb stats, not the other way around. You may not be old enough to know this, but there were pvp before kms. Now, there's blobbing and km whoring. It's all about getting on that km those days.Roll

"Oh crap, that industrial instapopped before I can get a shot off, I missed the kill!"Lol

I'll agree that KB stats aren't always accurate, and some people are complete KB whores. But they're still pretty good for making a rough assessment.

Anyway, that's beside the point, I don't care about getting the KM if something self destructs. I just think their loss mail should be viewable as a matter of principle, and I resent having to blob bigger ships just to get a kill.

You may not like getting clever kills, and you may rely solely on DPS to do whatever it is you do, but some of us like small gang PvP and to us one of the most annoying things is having supercaps or caps dropped on us. In those situations even if we do fight back, or come up with some clever plan to win, we gain nothing from it because we aren't using blob tactics. (See heretic army stealth bomber swarming PL caps to see what I mean).

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Angelo Cossa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-01-03 20:00:00 UTC
If killmail is good or bad is another matter... but if there is a system that keep account of who kills who, and you make someone self destruct, you should get the kill... if it was not you giving him no way to run or to fight he would not self destruct... i don't see any valid argument of why not.

As for the loot, maybe you should put a system that he can only autodestruct without letting a loot before getting a % of damage, after it the self destruc system get damaged and don't work 100%, that way if the enemy wants to deny you the loot he needs to self destruct pretty quick and don't fight back... if he try to put a fight you get the loot....
Mag's
Azn Empire
#46 - 2012-01-03 20:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Angelo Cossa wrote:
i don't see any valid argument of why not.
To change a mechanic, you need to provide a valid reason why.
But this is all a pointless debate anyway, as the last time anyone from CCP commented on this, they said they would look into changing it. Which I don't agree with, but hey ho.

Edit: Linkage.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#47 - 2012-01-03 20:33:52 UTC
I liked the idea where you could sacrifice a rig or something to self destruct completely, pod and all, do it rapidly and use your ship and ammo to detonate like a bomb. Take some of them down with you.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#48 - 2012-01-03 20:49:20 UTC
Angelo Cossa wrote:
If killmail is good or bad is another matter... but if there is a system that keep account of who kills who, and you make someone self destruct, you should get the kill... if it was not you giving him no way to run or to fight he would not self destruct... i don't see any valid argument of why not.

As for the loot, maybe you should put a system that he can only autodestruct without letting a loot before getting a % of damage, after it the self destruc system get damaged and don't work 100%, that way if the enemy wants to deny you the loot he needs to self destruct pretty quick and don't fight back... if he try to put a fight you get the loot....

Tbh I like the loot denial the way it is at the moment, other than the timer being too short for larger ships. SD is only really an issue for much, much larger ships IMHO. It's rare that you see sub capital ships doing it.

I'm happy with anything from battleship to below having <2 minute timers. Hell, even shorten them for BCs, cruisers, pods etc. if you want. But killing supers in <2 minutes just isn't realistic, even freighters or orcas will often take longer than that in certain situations.

I also like the idea of getting a KM for it, but I'd be happy if the highest damage dealer or all of the aggressors merely got the guy's lossmail in their KM list. By that I mean they get something to show he self destructed, but it doesn't show they were responsible for it. That way it can get posted on BC, but there is still some griefing/tears involved.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-01-04 01:04:13 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I also like the idea of getting a KM for it, but I'd be happy if the highest damage dealer or all of the aggressors merely got the guy's lossmail in their KM list. By that I mean they get something to show he self destructed, but it doesn't show they were responsible for it. That way it can get posted on BC, but there is still some griefing/tears involved.

You know that part of the movie, where the good guy sacrificies himself to save others and take out the bad guys. Yeah, thats epic cool factor right there. For the movies. In EVE, one guy makes the sacrifice knowing he is going to lose, it doesn't kill the bad guys, BUT it just makes you squirm in your seat in annoyance that you got denied.

Works everytime, this thread wouldn't exist if the OP and like minded individuals felt butthurt over losing. Seems its generally aknowledged that its ok of the other guy loses something and you accomplish something great (like if you score a hulk kill), but get denied youself (you lose a KM to another individual's actions) and suddenly you need Mama CCP to fix that booboo for you so the ouchie goes away. *laugh* Never could understand why by one human's own defination its ok to do something (in this case, YOU cause someone to lose a ship), but if that someone does something that affects you its suddenly not ok (in this case, SOMEONE ELSE causes you to lose a KM). Recap: its ok for you to make someone lose something but its not ok if someone makes you lose out and suddenly its some dirty exploit with overwhelming numbers that you just cannot defeat. What a laugh riot Lol
Goose99
#50 - 2012-01-04 02:12:47 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
I also like the idea of getting a KM for it, but I'd be happy if the highest damage dealer or all of the aggressors merely got the guy's lossmail in their KM list. By that I mean they get something to show he self destructed, but it doesn't show they were responsible for it. That way it can get posted on BC, but there is still some griefing/tears involved.

You know that part of the movie, where the good guy sacrificies himself to save others and take out the bad guys. Yeah, thats epic cool factor right there. For the movies. In EVE, one guy makes the sacrifice knowing he is going to lose, it doesn't kill the bad guys, BUT it just makes you squirm in your seat in annoyance that you got denied.

Works everytime, this thread wouldn't exist if the OP and like minded individuals felt butthurt over losing. Seems its generally aknowledged that its ok of the other guy loses something and you accomplish something great (like if you score a hulk kill), but get denied youself (you lose a KM to another individual's actions) and suddenly you need Mama CCP to fix that booboo for you so the ouchie goes away. *laugh* Never could understand why by one human's own defination its ok to do something (in this case, YOU cause someone to lose a ship), but if that someone does something that affects you its suddenly not ok (in this case, SOMEONE ELSE causes you to lose a KM). Recap: its ok for you to make someone lose something but its not ok if someone makes you lose out and suddenly its some dirty exploit with overwhelming numbers that you just cannot defeat. What a laugh riot Lol


+1

Supporting AOE on self destruct.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-01-04 02:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Sydious wrote:
I don't know if this has been proposed in the past, but a quick search didn't turn up anything similar.

In the same vein of how the logoffski trick has been removed in crucible, the self destruct is the only tactic that's still bothering supercap killers. So I propose a new idea that shouldn't be dificult to implement. As long as a ship is warp disrupted or scrammed, the self destruct shouldn't work. The only exception to this rule should be pods because you can't eject from a pod if somebody chooses to grief you by holding you in place.




Seriously?

Quote:
+1

Supporting AOE on self destruct.


Actually I'm more about this idea and SD timer proportional to ships size/tech.

Can you cry a little more pliz? -here just 4U
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#52 - 2012-01-04 02:39:40 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
You know that part of the movie, where the good guy sacrificies himself to save others and take out the bad guys. Yeah, thats epic cool factor right there. For the movies. In EVE, one guy makes the sacrifice knowing he is going to lose, it doesn't kill the bad guys, BUT it just makes you squirm in your seat in annoyance that you got denied.

Works everytime, this thread wouldn't exist if the OP and like minded individuals felt butthurt over losing. Seems its generally aknowledged that its ok of the other guy loses something and you accomplish something great (like if you score a hulk kill), but get denied youself (you lose a KM to another individual's actions) and suddenly you need Mama CCP to fix that booboo for you so the ouchie goes away. *laugh* Never could understand why by one human's own defination its ok to do something (in this case, YOU cause someone to lose a ship), but if that someone does something that affects you its suddenly not ok (in this case, SOMEONE ELSE causes you to lose a KM). Recap: its ok for you to make someone lose something but its not ok if someone makes you lose out and suddenly its some dirty exploit with overwhelming numbers that you just cannot defeat. What a laugh riot Lol

Rofl, because PvE ships regularly self destruct when caught.

Pro tip of the year: hulks don't last last long enough to self destruct.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-01-04 12:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Pro tip of the year: hulks don't last last long enough to self destruct.

Pro-tip: Its not about a miner losing a hulk and trying to self destruct, its about you winning a hulk gank but losing a cap kill. Try this scenario

Simi Kusoni: *warps into belt, smacks that Fkey with enthusiam while listening to Ride of The Valkyries* BANG! Your dead!
*KM appears in log showing a hulk was destroyed*

Next day:

Simi Kusoni: *warps on a carrier thats pointed in nullsec while listening to Ride of the Valkries* Easy kill broski's, we got this one
*Carrier starts self destruct*
Simi Kusoni: OMGWTF YOU NEWB! F*CK YOU! FIGHT ME! OVERLOAD YOUR GUNS EVERYONE!

Notice how you win one day, but lose the next. Bet that little bulb just flickered in your head, after you jumped to conclusions that some how it was possible to self destruct a hulk in less then 30 seconds and you though a miner was trying to prevent you from winning, when in fact you win the hulk kill but lose the carrier kill. Which is why I said human's have a laughable defination of whats ok to do in EVE: its ok for some people to win a gank but suddenly its not ok if someone starts self destruct on that same person,
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#54 - 2012-01-04 14:07:55 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Pro tip of the year: hulks don't last last long enough to self destruct.

Pro-tip: Its not about a miner losing a hulk and trying to self destruct, its about you winning a hulk gank but losing a cap kill. Try this scenario

Simi Kusoni: *warps into belt, smacks that Fkey with enthusiam while listening to Ride of The Valkyries* BANG! Your dead!
*KM appears in log showing a hulk was destroyed*

Next day:

Simi Kusoni: *warps on a carrier thats pointed in nullsec while listening to Ride of the Valkries* Easy kill broski's, we got this one
*Carrier starts self destruct*
Simi Kusoni: OMGWTF YOU NEWB! F*CK YOU! FIGHT ME! OVERLOAD YOUR GUNS EVERYONE!

Notice how you win one day, but lose the next. Bet that little bulb just flickered in your head, after you jumped to conclusions that some how it was possible to self destruct a hulk in less then 30 seconds and you though a miner was trying to prevent you from winning, when in fact you win the hulk kill but lose the carrier kill. Which is why I said human's have a laughable defination of whats ok to do in EVE: its ok for some people to win a gank but suddenly its not ok if someone starts self destruct on that same person,

You're comparing situations that are, quite simply, not comparable. Or relevant.

By your logic, since small gangs can kill hulk pilots they shouldn't be able to kill capital class ships? What does killing anything sub cap have to do with SD timers? And killing anything is ok to do in Eve, that's why we love this game.

I'm guessing from the slight undercurrent of bitter rage in your post you just dislike PvP, which is fair enough. Stay in high sec and don't fight people then, but for those of us that enjoy fighting others especially against the odds (e.g. taking on a supercap with a small gang) then SD timers just mean we don't bother.

Essentially, you are QQing about gankers whilst encouraging a mechanic that promotes ganking. Gz.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-01-04 21:36:03 UTC
last time I self -destructed a pod to get out to null-sec I had to wait though a 2 min timer before it would destruct, if you can't get your kill-mail in 2 mins from the time they know its helpless I'd say you lost the killmail
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#56 - 2012-01-04 22:05:29 UTC
Zyress wrote:
if you can't get your kill-mail in 2 mins from the time they know its helpless I'd say you lost the killmail

Read through the thread Roll

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#57 - 2012-01-04 22:14:08 UTC
I like the idea of just removing KM's completely. it serves less of a purpose, in recruiting, than it does for ego feeding. it is really only a mechanic to be able to show off your "trophies", and has nothing to do with actual gameplay. I dont know how many times ive seen people posting their own KM's and bosting about their superiority Ugh

I also think that the SD on dreads supers and titans should be increased, but not to much.

also, I have always thought that the SD should be like a one time use smart bomb damaging all withing 5-10 km, with extreme prejudice. Although i also feel it should still drop some loot (maybe lets say 1/4 of the modules and cargo?)
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-01-05 09:33:29 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No, I do not support this.

If someone decides to self destruct to deny a killmail and loot it is valid tactic that encourages you to bring more DPS to do the job in time.


CCP need to implement a dislike button.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-01-05 09:36:43 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No, I do not support this.

If someone decides to self destruct to deny a killmail and loot it is valid tactic that encourages you to bring more DPS to do the job in time.


CCP need to implement a dislike button.

You should see his other posts.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-01-05 13:57:30 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No, I do not support this.

If someone decides to self destruct to deny a killmail and loot it is valid tactic that encourages you to bring more DPS to do the job in time.


CCP need to implement a dislike button.

You should see his other posts.


Ah yes...

I'm glad he took some time out of posting in Missions and Complexes to weigh in on how nullsec warfare and supercap killing should work.