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Mobile Manufacturing - Ostia, Vulcan and Hephaestus

Author
Amelia Gates
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-01-05 23:43:17 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:


Should restrict it to copies only becuase no smart pilot in thier right mind is going to use a researched original to compete at the risk of a gaurantee loss instead of a strontium insured loss at a much cheaper Starbase.





Really?

Thing is there are lots of unsmart pilots in Eve as is witnessed by people hauling PLEX around in shuttles.

I like the idea of maybe smashing one of these ships to smithereens and maybe finding a researched original blueprint in the wreckage. Why would you not want that?

I don't think any restrictions on using originals or copies should be put in place and I don't think I've ever seen CCP hand hold in this way. Let the unsmart players learn from their mistakes.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#62 - 2012-01-06 03:56:16 UTC
Either way the expert industrialist would look at this ship and pity it while they go back to work in thier stations.

You're not giving me a good enough reason to waste fuel and skill points into manufacturing with this thing. It doesnt stream line the logistic line it complicates it.

The number of bodies involved, time devoted is simply not going to pay the costs off in the end, the industrialist that doesnt adapt will remain always ahead of those who try this route.

This ship is not niche enough, may be if factories didnt exist at a star base maybe the story would be entirley different.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#63 - 2012-01-06 05:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Nova Fox wrote:
Either way the expert industrialist would look at this ship and pity it while they go back to work in thier stations.

You're not giving me a good enough reason to waste fuel and skill points into manufacturing with this thing. It doesnt stream line the logistic line it complicates it.

The number of bodies involved, time devoted is simply not going to pay the costs off in the end, the industrialist that doesnt adapt will remain always ahead of those who try this route.

This ship is not niche enough, may be if factories didnt exist at a star base maybe the story would be entirley different.


Actually...

The expert industrialist would buy up the BPOs for this ship, spam it and never have to cue to use stations ever again....

Instead of having to take the resources to the factories, you can take the factories to the resources. Odds are I'd never even care about using the core on the bigger ship, since I don't need my battleship building speed to be increased from a few hours to a few hours - a few minutes.

That also having been said, the bigger ship should have the capability to produce smaller caps as well. Something restricted to low sec, that can spam ships... yea.. cap components and carriers + dreads sound about right.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#64 - 2012-01-06 18:40:14 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Either way the expert industrialist would look at this ship and pity it while they go back to work in thier stations.

You're not giving me a good enough reason to waste fuel and skill points into manufacturing with this thing. It doesnt stream line the logistic line it complicates it.

The number of bodies involved, time devoted is simply not going to pay the costs off in the end, the industrialist that doesnt adapt will remain always ahead of those who try this route.

This ship is not niche enough, may be if factories didnt exist at a star base maybe the story would be entirley different.


Actually...

The expert industrialist would buy up the BPOs for this ship, spam it and never have to cue to use stations ever again....

Instead of having to take the resources to the factories, you can take the factories to the resources. Odds are I'd never even care about using the core on the bigger ship, since I don't need my battleship building speed to be increased from a few hours to a few hours - a few minutes.

That also having been said, the bigger ship should have the capability to produce smaller caps as well. Something restricted to low sec, that can spam ships... yea.. cap components and carriers + dreads sound about right.


Actually the cores don't decrease manufacturing time by a few minutes - they do reduce by hours. Repeating again, the fuel cost balances the ships' significantly increased production speed. This makes them not terrible great for market work, unless you specifically aim to hunt for demand spikes that will garner the necessary profit to compensate fuel cost. For lack of a better analogy, it's almost like exploration in the market.

As for Nova's Comment - the niche is not necessarily for the expert industrialist, though given the ship's inherent increase in cost sinking the sp into industry would be good. The ship won't require radical skillpoints beyond what current industrial standards are. There will be the ship skills and the core skills - both of which will depend on industry skills you already would have gained for the field. Much like was said earlier on refining for the Rorqual - most players flying a Rorqual by virtue of being miners already have the refining skills.

The niche of the ship is not in the market - it can be, but it's a tough (but rewarding) challenge to do so. Much like the difference between station-trading in one place vs. using freighters between hubs vs. using JUMP freighters across dangerous space. The risk/reward increases each time. These ships provide that third level over risk/reward - POS being the middle ground (shielded as you noted) and stations the beginning, being totally safe as far as ship destruction goes.

The niche for the ship is going beyond the stationary POS - your home is your fleet, not some system. Someone mentioned earlier these ships would be really great if there were many more systems that were resource-low, but reward-high (in sites I suppose) making nomadic fleets necessary to capitalize on this. Right now, that's w-space more or less...although I'd argue setting up a POS is still not nomadic. It's still a base, a home.

I want to see player fleets log in - burn a system or two down, either PvP or PvE, and have the resources to be totally sustainable in space - then log off the ships. You've created almost a 'pickup and play' dynamic that doesn't exist outside hisec and lowsec really. This doesn't make nullsec or w-space easy-mode: ships have limited capacity, as Nova and others point out. The advantage is a simpler form of logistics, a different challenge, without being tied down to a stationary object.

The pinnacle of this point is that large alliances can hunt a nomad fleet...if it's online of course...and very easily destroy it if they catch up to it (unless said nomad fleet is very well endowed). But the key is finding it. Large sections of nullsec may have sovereignty established, but they're still empty and ripe for pillaging. The same applies to w-space, without sov of course.

Now...about cap production...I'm a little reluctant to see that involved. I think Nova would probably agree that ships shouldn't be able to produce capitals. For starters if we maintained the balance of fuel costs, capitals would be horrendously expensive to make on a MSS. Moreover, our mechanics are shaping up such that a MSS will be a sitting duck as it manufactures with cores (a necessity if we're talking the huge time and resources it takes to make a cap). Additionally, the ships would have an unbalanced ship mineral bay...meaning that they'd make freighters or other types of transports obsolete in the mineral field. Now building capital components - like XL turrets or siege modules - is a different story. These are modules that aren't ridiculously large compared to ships, meaning cargo-room isn't an issue.

The intent is the ships can produce any module or item, I haven't got a definitive vote on structures (as in using MSS to help setup a POS on site quickly, rather than hauling the components from somewhere else), and I really don't want the MSS to be able to produce beyond battleships at the top level. I can see MSS being used to make a POS quickly - to establish one immediately after breaking sov for example. Thing is, CCP and the CSM have been pretty vocal about making sweeping changes to sovereignty and POS mechanics over the next year...so I can't say how this will factor in.

A CCP Developer commenting specific to that would be very helpful - Nova Fox, you keep making the argument the ships aren't niche enough because of POS mechanics. Perhaps the changes coming to POS, which might make them much more permanent structures and thus not as easy to deploy, would render these ships a much clearer alternative to life in space. Could a CCP dev comment on the viability of that being the case? Thanks for all feedback, keep it coming!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#65 - 2012-01-07 11:24:24 UTC
Don't ever rely on ccp making changes to play into your hands.
Plan for the exact opposite thats how my escort carriers got entirely screwed out of purpose for the second time.

Ultimately the time saving these ships provide may not be worth it most blueprint is ee that are high priced are for their ME alone and not thier PE.

True you might save 4.5 million a per head per hour of transport for those materials but those materials still have to be gathered then you rambuntously have to consider that mining is the smallest mineral faucet in the game. So bringing a ship to the slowest income of mateirals in the game while increasing the risk loss of a bpo is beginnign to bring up the question, why bother?

POS can reinforce itself seige mode for 24 hours allowing plenty of time to stop the lines and GTFO the assest out of the factories. This ship will get hot dropped on mid production and you just lost a blueprint collection that may rival the cost of the ship to replace in terms of research or buy from market for something comparable.

The thing is the ship is competing against someone sitting in a station with those blueprints researched maxed out. This ship is competing agaisnt a bunch of factory lines that cannot be offlined for whatever reason their enemies can offer. This ship is also competing against the assurance thatn even if they did lose the station the Blueprints get out fine, in this ship's case there will be people looking for this ship specifically to pinanta becuase they know THERE will be a blueprint in it. Gaurnateed and that will be worth the big bucks to resell on the market if it survies the explosion.

You may get showered by a bunch of people how are in the industry of building things. What you are seriously lacking though are people who want nothing more than to ruin your day. There are wovles out ther that would love to slaivate of this ships existence as it will turn into a gank fest for them they will keep track of these things and hunt them down when they know there is some goodies inside to be had.

I as a fox would just simply thank you for buying one knowing full ahead of time youll be back for a replacment or not one at all.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#66 - 2012-01-07 22:39:00 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Don't ever rely on ccp making changes to play into your hands.
Plan for the exact opposite thats how my escort carriers got entirely screwed out of purpose for the second time.

Ultimately the time saving these ships provide may not be worth it most blueprint is ee that are high priced are for their ME alone and not thier PE.

True you might save 4.5 million a per head per hour of transport for those materials but those materials still have to be gathered then you rambuntously have to consider that mining is the smallest mineral faucet in the game. So bringing a ship to the slowest income of mateirals in the game while increasing the risk loss of a bpo is beginnign to bring up the question, why bother?

POS can reinforce itself seige mode for 24 hours allowing plenty of time to stop the lines and GTFO the assest out of the factories. This ship will get hot dropped on mid production and you just lost a blueprint collection that may rival the cost of the ship to replace in terms of research or buy from market for something comparable.

The thing is the ship is competing against someone sitting in a station with those blueprints researched maxed out. This ship is competing agaisnt a bunch of factory lines that cannot be offlined for whatever reason their enemies can offer. This ship is also competing against the assurance thatn even if they did lose the station the Blueprints get out fine, in this ship's case there will be people looking for this ship specifically to pinanta becuase they know THERE will be a blueprint in it. Gaurnateed and that will be worth the big bucks to resell on the market if it survies the explosion.

You may get showered by a bunch of people how are in the industry of building things. What you are seriously lacking though are people who want nothing more than to ruin your day. There are wovles out ther that would love to slaivate of this ships existence as it will turn into a gank fest for them they will keep track of these things and hunt them down when they know there is some goodies inside to be had.

I as a fox would just simply thank you for buying one knowing full ahead of time youll be back for a replacment or not one at all.


Well I'm sorry to hear CCP torpedoed your own idea - I did not mean to imply CCP would make things work for this ship, simply that it's known they are seriously looking at POS mechanics. It's entirely possible they'll further strengthen POS industry, guaranteeing your points on this ship's current setup.

Seeing as you're clearly against the idea in its current format - let me pose a new question to you and like-minded industrialists (as in those who currently don't support this setup):

What is needed to make this ship work - you've pointed out the flaws, how can they be repaired or changed?

-You cite BPO's and BP's as a major point of ganking, which I don't actually see as a problem as there are other ships that inherently call for that (the Rorqual comes to mind among other industrial ships). What could be done here to fix this? Are BP's simply too expensive regardless or should the ships have some other form of BP, a specialized hold...I don't want to go off the deep end of development, but for argument's sake what do you think is needed to fix this?

-You also continuously go after the safety disadvantage of being a ship and easy to attack, regardless of the economic or time advantage. What balancing is needed then to make this ship a worthy investment?

-You've indicated the ship has problems when it comes to resources - mining not being the most efficient means to locate minerals. The accompanying reprocessing ships alleviate this problem somewhat, most notably in being able to reprocess modules which generally yield more quicker than mining. However, what do you think is needed to fix this problem? Should mining be swifter, the bays larger, or is the manufacturing speed of the ships not enough to offset the time it takes to mine? Remember - Freighters and other transport ships enable a ready supply of materials to be available. Just like normal modes of manufacturing, these ships will rarely be without materials on hand when in use - their storage will simply be in ships, not stations or warehouses.

-Finally, the case of nomadic gameplay. I know you are content with the fact that POS are the only method for space-manufacturing, but what about other players? You repeatedly state that the disadvantages economically mean nobody will use this ship - are there no manufacturers that would be interested in this role and if so, why do you think that?

Shift focus from pointing out flaws you see, and how they can be remedied. Again, I'm reluctant to call for huge overhauls that require immense development time...beyond what it normally takes that is...but for the sake of argument and understanding, what do you think is needed? Man knew he wanted to go to the moon before he knew what a space shuttle was - that didn't stop him though, did it? Approach this the same way: what are the in between steps we're missing - these ships could launch very soon or they might not for some time.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#67 - 2012-01-07 22:47:26 UTC
I'm not reading all of that. I will say that I don't think it a bad idea. It actually was planned, I believe. This is why haulers have HUGE amounts of CPU. They were going to need it for special deep space life module of some kind. It never panned out.
Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#68 - 2012-01-09 17:16:37 UTC
SandKid wrote:

-Finally, the case of nomadic gameplay. I know you are content with the fact that POS are the only method for space-manufacturing, but what about other players? You repeatedly state that the disadvantages economically mean nobody will use this ship - are there no manufacturers that would be interested in this role and if so, why do you think that?


I am the perfect example for this :P

- Can't always play on a daily basis being married and having large responsibilities etc.
Benefit this type of ship class would have for me is that compared to a POS, it wont cost me 100's of Millions just to keep the thing running, as a POS you need to fuel for its shield and structures inside. This ship would require no running costs while your not actually using it.

You may just say, don't use a POS and just use Manufacturing Lines of a Station.
Well the whole point of this ship is because there is not a vast amount of available slots 24/7. So you may log in, and it's like 12 Days before your next slot becomes available.

- I also think it should have some sort of research capability. If it can manufacture then it could research, all it needs is a reasonable size lab for research. Maybe apply some sort of rules like so...

1: Research is only progressed while your in ship
2: Research per level takes double the time it would if it were in a station.
i.e.
Researching Material Efficiency ( These are not exact figures, just examples )
Station lvl1 = 10mins --- Ship Lvl1 = 20mins
Station Lvl2 = 20 Mins --- Ship Lvl2 = 40 Mins
and so on....
3: Research can be progressed while docked as research has to be monitored at all times.Only while in your ship and docked, not while your in your Quarters or Walking in Station).
4: Ship can warp

So in theory, if say, level 20 took 10 hours, you would need to be in your ship for 10 hours, but i rather afk in a station for 10 hours making no money, instead of waiting 30 days for a queue to be available...
even a couple of hours every day would suffice and still be faster than waiting 30 days for a queue slot before you can even begin !

I'm not sure how long research takes, as there is never a bloody queue that I can use! Always 100% taken with a month to go before you can get in there!
Hence why a ship that could do this would be beneficial!

AGAIN - NOT PAYING 100's OF MILLIONS A MONTH FOR A POS I ONLY USE 10 DAYS OF A MONTH ETC...
Obviously a POS is for more effective for serious hardcore industrialists with better results! But Eve is always about tailoring to all different professions and different ways of tackling each job!
Taniesha
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-01-11 00:25:25 UTC
Great idea, would love to see this implemented.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#70 - 2012-01-11 02:28:39 UTC
And Chujo Jong brings up a point. Why log in when the ship being built isnt done yet?
You'll only increase the pinata effect if caught logged on.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#71 - 2012-01-11 02:51:56 UTC
TL;DR but will read through in a bit.

These things shouldn't be able to enter hisec. Breath a nomadic lifestyle into losec and wh without a static base.

Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#72 - 2012-01-11 10:18:06 UTC
M'nu wrote:
TL;DR but will read through in a bit.

These things shouldn't be able to enter hisec. Breath a nomadic lifestyle into losec and wh without a static base.


No hisec? This would then loose the attraction of a good 75% of players that require it.

People that live in low/0.0 either

Want it simple, no base, no mining, no manufacturing... just a couple of ships and pew pew...

or

In a fairly decent corp/alliance that can hold its own, which should mean they have a POS.

Both instances would not require such a ship. Obviously for Corps an alliances they can take it from their POS to somewhere near the front line and manufacture at the heat of the battle while the have no strongholds there. Other than that, this would be heavily used, manufactured and purchased in hisec due to the lack of Manufacturing slots available in hisec in the first place!

This ship shouldn't be gimped for the 0.0 lovers, they have POS's to rely on, it's harder to establish a POS in high sec!
Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#73 - 2012-01-11 10:23:23 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
And Chujo Jong brings up a point. Why log in when the ship being built isnt done yet?
You'll only increase the pinata effect if caught logged on.


It's a bit like, why should it be any different from the rest of Eve?

POS - Don't have to be logged in.
Station - Don't have to be logged in, only log in to deliver to Cargo Hold

Obviously it's a ship and operations can be different compared to a large structure but I think my suggestions do cover the possibilities of that! :)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#74 - 2012-01-11 10:31:35 UTC
Chujo Jong wrote:
M'nu wrote:
TL;DR but will read through in a bit.

These things shouldn't be able to enter hisec. Breath a nomadic lifestyle into losec and wh without a static base.


No hisec? This would then loose the attraction of a good 75% of players that require it.

People that live in low/0.0 either

Want it simple, no base, no mining, no manufacturing... just a couple of ships and pew pew...

or

In a fairly decent corp/alliance that can hold its own, which should mean they have a POS.

Both instances would not require such a ship. Obviously for Corps an alliances they can take it from their POS to somewhere near the front line and manufacture at the heat of the battle while the have no strongholds there. Other than that, this would be heavily used, manufactured and purchased in hisec due to the lack of Manufacturing slots available in hisec in the first place!

This ship shouldn't be gimped for the 0.0 lovers, they have POS's to rely on, it's harder to establish a POS in high sec!


And back to square one on why 0.0 and low feel so empty.

Stop incentivising high sec when possible, if you cant get a pos in high sec move on out then else where.

I do relaize that yes low sec is messed up but making the problem worse in high isnt going to fix things.

Unfourutantely until all mateirals are removed from reprocessing that wont be a fix for industrialist at all.

Another factor going against this is that not all areas have everything you need. I mean you really cant build a battleship from high sec minerals alone can you?

Which brings back the question of fuel cost being worth it?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#75 - 2012-01-11 12:42:14 UTC
+1 for this idea in general. Details may or not be what I'd hope for, but I have no comments.
Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#76 - 2012-01-11 14:43:05 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Chujo Jong wrote:
M'nu wrote:
TL;DR but will read through in a bit.

These things shouldn't be able to enter hisec. Breath a nomadic lifestyle into losec and wh without a static base.


No hisec? This would then loose the attraction of a good 75% of players that require it.

People that live in low/0.0 either

Want it simple, no base, no mining, no manufacturing... just a couple of ships and pew pew...

or

In a fairly decent corp/alliance that can hold its own, which should mean they have a POS.

Both instances would not require such a ship. Obviously for Corps an alliances they can take it from their POS to somewhere near the front line and manufacture at the heat of the battle while the have no strongholds there. Other than that, this would be heavily used, manufactured and purchased in hisec due to the lack of Manufacturing slots available in hisec in the first place!

This ship shouldn't be gimped for the 0.0 lovers, they have POS's to rely on, it's harder to establish a POS in high sec!


And back to square one on why 0.0 and low feel so empty.

Stop incentivising high sec when possible, if you cant get a pos in high sec move on out then else where.

I do relaize that yes low sec is messed up but making the problem worse in high isnt going to fix things.

Unfourutantely until all mateirals are removed from reprocessing that wont be a fix for industrialist at all.

Another factor going against this is that not all areas have everything you need. I mean you really cant build a battleship from high sec minerals alone can you?

Which brings back the question of fuel cost being worth it?


There's plenty going on in 0.0 and low sec, it's mostly all cloak and dagger and you need to go looking for it to find it.

Eve again, is tailored for all type of players, from solo to large alliances, hi sec mostly preferable for Solo and 0.0 for alliances. 0.0 and low sec already have the insane advantage over hi sec of having insanely valuable ores which transported to hi sec sell very profitably, so that being the incentive to moving out. Solo people don't have the luxury to hold a POS in low sec or 0.0 and there is no real alternative on smaller scale for the solo pilot.

I can't see this being massive incentive other than a small boost to what isn't really available in the first place!

Take this scenario 0.0 vs high sec, where 0.0 have both POS and Station or just one of these... and high sec has one lone ship

0.0
Station: Run maximum jobs as long as you have the required skills
POS: Run maximum jobs based on how many structures have been built and your skills
Ship: Run one additional job along side either your POS / Station Job based on skills

hi sec
Ship: Run one Job at a time

Incentive ? I'd see it being maybe something that should have been there in the first place. You 0.0 and low sec peeps already have a rorqual etc and other capital ships, I have a Charon and a Orca and thats as big as it gets to owning a epic ship in hi sec

Resources
I build Drakes, none of the ore comes from a market, and ore is "0.0" ore...
I gain my ore currently via missions and refining modules from salvage.
If they gimped that, then there's always the market... those 0.0 lovers would love to charge high prices for their ores so hi sec'ers could manufacture from it

Fuel:
Wouldn't this be based on Ice/Planetary input, which are available in hi sec
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#77 - 2012-01-11 16:53:10 UTC
Capital ships are not for solo players.
Stop making ships for such people.

The Roquel isnt allow in high sec either your larger one responsible for manufacutring shouldnt be allowed either.

Why? There is very little reason to be nomadic in high sec as Ill say it again freighter form another region is going going to beat this ship's cost into a bloodly pulp.

Also your log off logic is bad
You can lose a 0.0 station while logged off
You can lose a POS station whever you are while logged off.

Jobs should pause when logged off.

And why do you think they currently base all the ships fuel on ice, there is a specific design reason why.

Number 2 Fuel cost is not isk value, its time value as well. How much time does this ship really save if it takes 20 man hours of fuel to build just one ship quickly?

Which brings in another question, man hours wasted on this ship? Mining is about 5 million an hour profession, where mission ratting is about 11 million an hour profession and you want to waste a pilot slot which would be argueably a 'negative' isk an hour?

A factory rent from a station is about... 12k isk give or take based on standings and how long of a run it is?

Ultimately I am sorry but the biggest slayer to this idea at least in high sec is the fact that alot of Tech 1 ships are at or below thier mineral value. I have actually seen mass buy orders just so they can be scrapped for thier minerals because some idiots think mining is free.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#78 - 2012-01-11 17:44:26 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:

Which brings in another question, man hours wasted on this ship? Mining is about 5 million an hour profession, where mission ratting is about 11 million an hour profession and you want to waste a pilot slot which would be argueably a 'negative' isk an hour?


Sorry 5 Mil an hour ?
Where did you pull that stat from ?

Mining in hi sec at the weekend just passed, which was based on how long for mine and travel. 1 Hour 10 Mins made 16 mil. Mind you my skills are hardly low or mid ranged.

bit off topic there...

Capital ships may not be best designed for Solo players as Corps and Alliance have unlimited daily needs for them, where as a Solo may only use once in a while, but damn me, I'm in my Capitals (which Orca and freighter are classed as) on a daily basis, That kind of contradicts your statement of them "not for" solo players.

I do agree there's no need for Capital OFFENSIVE ships for solo players or hi sec, industrial ships however....

If your breaking fuel down into "Manpower" also, then I already covered this in my examples on page 3. I provided 3 examples of how this could be covered based on different ship designs and technicalities. You stated that things can be blown up, while logged off but also i stated on page 4 if manufacturing was only done when logged on.

Quote:
So in theory, if say, level 20 took 10 hours, you would need to be in your ship for 10 hours, but i rather afk in a station for 10 hours making no money, instead of waiting 30 days for a queue to be available...
even a couple of hours every day would suffice and still be faster than waiting 30 days for a queue slot before you can even begin !


I'd wait that amount of time at a bookmark in space if manufacturing couldn't be done in a station. 10 Hours in a day or 10 Hours over many days. There is still a risk, if such a ship was introduced it would be a new hulkageddon that would actually require the gankers to scan down a ship before they can gank it. Who said it had to have a perfect defence ? It can be simple to destroy if you can find it!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#79 - 2012-01-11 18:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
The numbers I pulled are from the perfect hulk m3 pulled since that would serve as a good median between the perfect hulk gang and the not so hulk miners.

The isk value was divered from m four index regions and galaxy averages. bistot is currently in the lead again at 5.1 million an hour. Quite often Veldspare would pull ahead.

I dont want to put long replies here, becuase that normally involves hypothetical number crunching and I got other threads to addend to.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Chujo Jong
Galactic Empire Corporation
#80 - 2012-01-11 19:26:06 UTC
My stat was based on, Mining in a T2 Modulated Strip Miner with Crystals

that said...

This Ship \o/
This Ship for Hi Sec \o/