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A 'what if' thought on Amarr - Caldari relations
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Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-01 04:15:39 UTC
I wondered if, in the lore, had the Caldari/Gallente split not been as intense, and as a result the technology level of both were not as developed by the time contact with the Amarr was made, if the Amarr and Caldari would have been on as good terms as it appears they are.

Given the attitude of many Amarr in power, and the general history of the Empire, first contact with the Caldari would have had to include thoughts of 'Shall we conquer and enslave them?'. I figure that even with a lower level of technology, the Gallente would probably have appeared to be a big and troublesome enough beast for the Amarr to hesitate in moving on them. But the Caldari represented a smaller group. Could it be that the only difference between 'Ally' and 'Slave' for the Caldari - Amarr relation base was the sharpness of the Caldari sword?
Veriasse Valence
Axitek Consortium
#2 - 2012-01-03 05:00:44 UTC
The Amarr tried their hand at enslaving or taking on the Jovians. If they were willing to battle them, there is no doubt they would have gone after the Caldari had the opportunity presented itself. The empire of today isnt the same one of the past however, and it seems less interested in military conquest at the moment.
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#3 - 2012-01-03 13:54:19 UTC
If I recall correctly, the Amarr first made contact with the Federation/Gallente before making contact with the Caldari (separate from the Federation). However, about the same time the Minmatar rebelled.

Keeping the Minmatar rebellion when it occurred and softening the first Gallente-Caldari War (/Federation Civil War) likely only strengthens the position of the Federation & State at the time of the Rebellion. They may not have been as advanced technologically, but they also would be less drained from war.

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-04 03:16:42 UTC
Good points.... btw, I was reading the short story (or novella) Theodicy, and it seems that the Jovians are fighting someone in a kind of hidden war? If the story is regarded as canon. The Amarr military leader that talked the Empire into fighting the Jovians in that battle of Vak'Atioth is portrayed in that story.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-01-04 18:56:37 UTC
Duvida wrote:
Good points.... btw, I was reading the short story (or novella) Theodicy, and it seems that the Jovians are fighting someone in a kind of hidden war? If the story is regarded as canon. The Amarr military leader that talked the Empire into fighting the Jovians in that battle of Vak'Atioth is portrayed in that story.


The events are cannon but none of us capsuleers know of most of them. IE none of the general public would have any way of knowing some of the darker secrets of that chronicle, only the outside events.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-06 18:59:26 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Duvida wrote:
Good points.... btw, I was reading the short story (or novella) Theodicy, and it seems that the Jovians are fighting someone in a kind of hidden war? If the story is regarded as canon. The Amarr military leader that talked the Empire into fighting the Jovians in that battle of Vak'Atioth is portrayed in that story.


The events are cannon but none of us capsuleers know of most of them. IE none of the general public would have any way of knowing some of the darker secrets of that chronicle, only the outside events.




I dunno, are Gallente good at gossip, with their own versions of the Enquirer around? "Inquiring Gallente minds want to know!" I'd imagine they're as bad at keeping state secrets as the White House, if not worse.
w0Ot99
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-06 19:16:13 UTC
There is one variable you did not account for. Both Gallente and Caldari homeworlds are in the same solar system. This is the reason why they met each other first. If the assumption that Amarr met the Caldari would also means that they would have to fight the Gallente to get to the Caldari.
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-06 21:46:19 UTC
w0Ot99 wrote:
There is one variable you did not account for. Both Gallente and Caldari homeworlds are in the same solar system. This is the reason why they met each other first. If the assumption that Amarr met the Caldari would also means that they would have to fight the Gallente to get to the Caldari.



My understanding of the lore is that the Amarr were met during the war, after the Caldari had left the Gallente Federation, meaning that the Caldari would have been governing from New Caldari at first contact.

Not sure if the Minmatar were encountered at the same time as the Amarr, or under separate circumstances.
Mirima Thurander
#9 - 2012-01-07 04:57:24 UTC
realy its more about the fact that the ammar met the gal/cal after the jove kicked there teeth in.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#10 - 2012-01-07 07:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Publius Valerius
Mirima Thurander wrote:
realy its more about the fact that the ammar met the gal/cal after the jove kicked there teeth in.


Actually it is the other way around... The Amarr met the Gallente 23180 AD, shortly after that they met the Caldari. 23216 AD was the Battle of Vak'Atioth.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_timeline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo&list=PLF614A7A6461E61E1&index=23&feature=plpp_video (God, I miss the old intro, it was so much better RP wise than the new one.... The new is more action, but less immersive.)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Battle_of_Vak%27Atioth


About:
"Given the attitude of many Amarr in power, and the general history of the Empire, first contact with the Caldari would have had to include thoughts of 'Shall we conquer and enslave them?'. I figure that even with a lower level of technology, the Gallente would probably have appeared to be a big and troublesome enough beast for the Amarr to hesitate in moving on them. But the Caldari represented a smaller group. Could it be that the only difference between 'Ally' and 'Slave' for the Caldari - Amarr relation base was the sharpness of the Caldari sword?"

Your thoughts on the Gallente is right.... I think it was mention in some Chrons and Shortstorys... (I think about the trader was it (Catch of the Day), but Im not sure right now). About the Caldari... I have something similar in mind... I even think I have read something about.... "the Caldari on edge between 'almost equal in power' and 'enslave them'".

But I cant remember which page it was....It was in a miscellaneous page (like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Caldari_State ). Most likely it was a mix out.... 'almost equal in power' and that the Kingdom was very fast allied with them. So that the Empire most likely though it would be better to have an allied out there, just in case the Fed has some weird ideaP. But it is just my 50 cent.

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer