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null-sec pvp sucks
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Fras Siabi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-01-06 01:17:21 UTC
You could always go to Fountain and shoot a few rounds into our ratters there. They'll probably fight back.

Not all who wander are lost, but most of them are complete idiots.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#22 - 2012-01-06 03:07:51 UTC
Confirming that Fountain is pretty much the only place where you can catch nullbears who do not logoffski as soon as local bumps.

Also, they will indeed fight back but the response ranges from:

1. Undock BCs one at a time to die off station
2. Bridge a 300 man fleet behind you and try to bait with a fleet comped with more logi than you have ships
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#23 - 2012-01-06 03:24:24 UTC
if you dont like it then try something else. make a corp and wardec a bunch of people in highsec ... go to lowsec and camp the pipelines ... go scan down WH and catch people doing sites ... lots of other pvp in the game besides nullsec.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#24 - 2012-01-06 06:51:39 UTC
Dorian, why I never see you in Siseide anymore. )':



Also, confirming 0.0 PvP sucks unless you're in a Muninn and your FC is Elo Knight and you are shooting noobs over and over and over and over and over again. :nods:

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-01-06 08:21:33 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:

Also, confirming 0.0 PvP sucks unless you're in a Muninn and your FC is Elo Knight and you are shooting noobs over and over and over and over and over again. :nods:


sup?
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-01-06 08:38:20 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:

Also, confirming 0.0 PvP sucks unless you're in a Muninn and your FC is Elo Knight and you are shooting noobs over and over and over and over and over again. :nods:


sup?

Cern Tiamat = best FC ever. C/D?
Death Toll007
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-01-06 08:41:46 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
Defined what sucks about null sec PvP


What is awesome about null though is the same... you just never know. Sometimes you get the short end of the stick, sometimes you are the beat stick of another's eve nightmare.

Worst part of the game is still sov mechanics... only issue is I really do not know what can be done to fix it. Just a crazy stab though:

why have sov at all?

...hmmm will have to post something in a more relevant thread/forum to this effect.

-DT
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#28 - 2012-01-06 09:00:17 UTC
" null-sec pvp sucks"

Funny thing is that one can remove the "PvP" and that statement would still be true!

Completely unbiased, fair and balanced personal opinion:
Null PvP should be renamed to FCvFC as target calling, fleet make-up and arranging for a Titan-bridge/hot-drop are the deciding factors .. calling it PvP is like calling Uwe Boll's movies "art".
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#29 - 2012-01-06 09:03:42 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:

Also, confirming 0.0 PvP sucks unless you're in a Muninn and your FC is Elo Knight and you are shooting noobs over and over and over and over and over again. :nods:


sup?


<3

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-01-06 10:27:07 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

Completely unbiased, fair and balanced personal opinion:
Null PvP should be renamed to FCvFC as target calling, fleet make-up and arranging for a Titan-bridge/hot-drop are the deciding factors .. calling it PvP is like calling Uwe Boll's movies "art".


You have literally 0 kills in 0.0 as far back as I cared to look (10 months).
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#31 - 2012-01-06 11:12:35 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

Completely unbiased, fair and balanced personal opinion:
Null PvP should be renamed to FCvFC as target calling, fleet make-up and arranging for a Titan-bridge/hot-drop are the deciding factors .. calling it PvP is like calling Uwe Boll's movies "art".


You have literally 0 kills in 0.0 as far back as I cared to look (10 months).

And that affects the validity of my claim how exactly? Ever considered that I might *gasp* posses more than character?

Never made it any secret that Veshta Yoshida is the elder sister in the family. Have to go back a while as I got out of null (when FW kicked off) before it devolved into pure blobbing and became just 2-3 blocs .. you know back when 'neighbour' didn't mean everyone on left or right of a central line drawn across the entirety of the Eve map Big smile
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-01-06 11:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
And that affects the validity of my claim how exactly? Ever considered that I might *gasp* posses more than character?


My highly effective and wide-ranging spy network told me you pvp on two (or three, kinda hard to tell since I'm not actually spying on PIE) chars with Veshta as your main, but you mostly gave up on TQ to play on the China server. While you were gone, you missed out on at least 2 FOTM shifts and the small-gang renaissance in NPC null after the collapse of so many sov alliances. Ofc, the knock-on effects of the anom nerf eventually caught up and depopulated 0.0, but it was nice while it lasted.

Anyway, if you're throwing up nullsec PvP as FCvsFC, lowsec would fall under that header as well, given that 80% of what goes on in a gangfight in nullsec also happens in lowsec. Or are you seriously claiming that bubbles, bombs and lack of GCC remove all individual skill from PvP?
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#33 - 2012-01-06 12:48:15 UTC
Nope just on Vesh and never went to China .. couldn't be arsed .. was active on FHC's forum though. Been semi-active in FW the whole time.

Individual skill ceases to be of import as numbers increase.

When exactly the change from PvP to FCvFC happens depends on ship sizes, but generally speaking (as in average) around 30-40 mixed fleet or so in my experience.
Essentially when the fleet/gang becomes able to one-volley any subcap, the function of the individual becomes one of pressing a button when told to by the FC.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-01-07 02:41:40 UTC
My first two ventures to nullsec were terrible.

Now I live in Stain. There's always something happening here, and no sov. BS ever (though I did somehow get talked into shooting a small POS tonight... but that's another story)

KB Link
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-01-07 04:38:58 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

When exactly the change from PvP to FCvFC happens depends on ship sizes, but generally speaking (as in average) around 30-40 mixed fleet or so in my experience.
Essentially when the fleet/gang becomes able to one-volley any subcap, the function of the individual becomes one of pressing a button when told to by the FC.


So basically it's not some mythical low/null divide, but rather numbers? Gotcha.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-01-07 04:47:01 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
He has a point you know.

If it's not a DBRB fleet, PvP in Null sucks.

True story that.


Are there two DBRBs?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-01-07 05:00:42 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Individual skill ceases to be of import as numbers increase.


I've been thinking about this quote for a while (a short while, I admit). I agree, one person screwing up usually doesn't harm the entire fleet, unless that person is in one of the few key roles. However if half of the fleet are idiots, it will die in a fire pretty rapidly.

Yes, EVE is not a particularly high-skill game (compared to, say, fighting games or some FPSs); at least in the kind of circumstances we're talking about.

But I wonder, is that even possible? Can you give an example of a mechanic from an existing game (or even make one up) where you can have 100 people fighting together, and still have the individual skill of every person have a major impact? To me, this would very easily lead to situations (I heard are) common in LoL and similar games: one person screws up and brings the whole team down. And with the number of people participating in EVE fights, the chances of one person screwing up - even unintentionally - are very high.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-01-07 23:21:41 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
To me, this would very easily lead to situations (I heard are) common in LoL and similar games: one person screws up and brings the whole team down. And with the number of people participating in EVE fights, the chances of one person screwing up - even unintentionally - are very high.


Fights in LoL are well within the realm of what we call "small gang" in EVE, 5 on 5 at most. But don't worry, it's entirely possible for one person being terrible to cause an entire fleet to welp; my personal favorite all the logis being in one wing, which was then wing-warped to wrong location and bubbled while everyone else in the fleet DIAF w/o reps.
Dessau
The Scope
#39 - 2012-01-08 01:59:57 UTC
Got dead in Fountain today.

Great death, would die again.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#40 - 2012-01-08 13:24:59 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
...But I wonder, is that even possible?...

Wonder no more, for it doesn't exist. Big smile

The problem I have with null pew at present is that CCP, despite professing their love for the small scale/skirmishing, have made it not only blob friendly but managed to make the blob mandatory .. primarily through the use of EHP grind mechanics.
It blobbing kicked off when they introduced POS + Sov, and every aspect since then has added more EHP to grind .. capitals, stations+services, TCU, SBU and now POCO's. According to the blogs preceeding Dominion it was their intention to spread things out, but development was cut short for whatever reason.

Lose the EHP grind mechanics and blobs will scatter as they become redundant .. especially if EHP mechanics gets replaced with some form of objective based system covering a larger area (hint: rip-off Incursion).

Until that hallowed day, Null-sec PvP will suck for everyone but coffin pilots who still have some autonomy and can thus bring individual skill to bear.
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